Silly question about a solicitor writing a bad will
Discussion
A competent and wise solicitor, or indeed a professional Will writer, will, as a matter of course present a 'letter of engagement' to the Client prior to any work being undertaken, which outlines precisely what elements of the service are or are not included in that service. This usually includes their position on providing any element of IHT planning advice. Omission of or silence on this matter can lead to problems down the line.
In addition, during the interview process of taking the instruction with the Client, most good professionals will record detailed 'contemporaneous notes' which are filed with the those instructions. The notes will be invaluable should advice be rejected by the Client at interview, if later action be taken against the professional concerned.
In addition, during the interview process of taking the instruction with the Client, most good professionals will record detailed 'contemporaneous notes' which are filed with the those instructions. The notes will be invaluable should advice be rejected by the Client at interview, if later action be taken against the professional concerned.
OP this is not my field.
I would suggest that you spend a little bit of money with a solicitor with the letters TEP ( http://www.step.org/ ) and if possible SFE ( http://www.solicitorsfortheelderly.com/ )after their name.
Mention the words "Deed of Variation" to them and go from there. If Executors and listed beneficiaries are all singing from the same hymn sheet there may be ways and means of mitigating some or all of the IHT bill.
I would suggest that you spend a little bit of money with a solicitor with the letters TEP ( http://www.step.org/ ) and if possible SFE ( http://www.solicitorsfortheelderly.com/ )after their name.
Mention the words "Deed of Variation" to them and go from there. If Executors and listed beneficiaries are all singing from the same hymn sheet there may be ways and means of mitigating some or all of the IHT bill.
Breadvan72 said:
OP, absent evidence of a failure by the solicitor carefully to follow instructions given by the client, there is nothing that can be done.
My own take on inheritance in all forms is that expecting to receive benefits from people dying is weird, and distorts our society a bit. Thus is a minority view, but I find the idea of fretting over what I might have been given by someone but wasn't given a bit odd. I recently advised on part of a case in which siblings have litigated in twelve separate jurisdictions for the last two decades over the estate left by their father (who wanted to leave it all to charity, anyway, but forgot to perfect his will before dying).
BV, look at it from another perspective, I now consider myself to be quite successful (as I'm sure you are) and I've paid (and will continue to pay) lots of tax to HMG, at some point I'll pop off this mortal coil and will probably/maybe/hopefully have an estate worth well over the IHT threshold.My own take on inheritance in all forms is that expecting to receive benefits from people dying is weird, and distorts our society a bit. Thus is a minority view, but I find the idea of fretting over what I might have been given by someone but wasn't given a bit odd. I recently advised on part of a case in which siblings have litigated in twelve separate jurisdictions for the last two decades over the estate left by their father (who wanted to leave it all to charity, anyway, but forgot to perfect his will before dying).
Edited by Breadvan72 on Monday 18th August 12:59
I find it utterly disgusting, that my estate (that I've already paid substantial tax on in building) is going to be taxed again, at another 40%! It's disgraceful and makes my blood boil!
Ok, I'm not there yet and hope to live another 40-50 years, but I DO NOT want to give any more than I've had taken in income tax, to HMG! I'd rather leave it to my daughter, wife, brother, sister etc. For them to have the benefit of my hard earned! NOT HMG, who just squander it on overseas aid, single moms with 6 kids, immigrants with a family of 12 in a London home that I couldn't afford to live in!
The party that abolishes IHT will get my vote! It sickens me to the core! (mind you, going on the last 20 years, election pledges are rarely carried to fruition, maybe that should be made law too?)
Jim1556 said:
BV, look at it from another perspective, I now consider myself to be quite successful (as I'm sure you are) and I've paid (and will continue to pay) lots of tax to HMG, at some point I'll pop off this mortal coil and will probably/maybe/hopefully have an estate worth well over the IHT threshold.
I find it utterly disgusting, that my estate (that I've already paid substantial tax on in building) is going to be taxed again, at another 40%! It's disgraceful and makes my blood boil!
Ok, I'm not there yet and hope to live another 40-50 years, but I DO NOT want to give any more than I've had taken in income tax, to HMG! I'd rather leave it to my daughter, wife, brother, sister etc. For them to have the benefit of my hard earned! NOT HMG, who just squander it on overseas aid, single moms with 6 kids, immigrants with a family of 12 in a London home that I couldn't afford to live in!
The party that abolishes IHT will get my vote! It sickens me to the core! (mind you, going on the last 20 years, election pledges are rarely carried to fruition, maybe that should be made law too?)
Unfortunately, I don't think it (abolish IHT) will happen any time soon or if at all. It's a honey pot, just waiting to be raided...I find it utterly disgusting, that my estate (that I've already paid substantial tax on in building) is going to be taxed again, at another 40%! It's disgraceful and makes my blood boil!
Ok, I'm not there yet and hope to live another 40-50 years, but I DO NOT want to give any more than I've had taken in income tax, to HMG! I'd rather leave it to my daughter, wife, brother, sister etc. For them to have the benefit of my hard earned! NOT HMG, who just squander it on overseas aid, single moms with 6 kids, immigrants with a family of 12 in a London home that I couldn't afford to live in!
The party that abolishes IHT will get my vote! It sickens me to the core! (mind you, going on the last 20 years, election pledges are rarely carried to fruition, maybe that should be made law too?)
Govt know that it is easy pickings, and a soft target, and they can 'spin' their justification quite effectively for a number of reasons (original estate owner no longer needs - supposedly richer estates even more so etc etc)... unless you are 'in the club' so to speak!
Just look at the thrust going on now with the fudge they dreamt up regarding funding for care homes - If you have assets of over £23.5k you pay... well, that was before the new idea came into play...now you are liable for up to £75k of the cost, BUT what is harder to find out is that only part of the overall cost per week contributes to that value... accommodation and living costs is excluded (think they term this as hotel costs - yeah, right - ever stayed in a care home?). Then there is talk of dinging the estate on death for all costs!
There is some justification for paying a proportion, but IMHO they have very conveniently forgotten (for those that have worked all their lives)that great gobs of dosh have already been grabbed by HMRC from the time you start work in the form of income tax, CGT, National Insurance, VAT, Sales tax (if you are older), etc etc...
Another minority view. Tax is not a case of your property being grabbed by the State. It's a Royalty on economic activity, in return for which the State provides the setting for such activity. That setting includes defence, foreign policy, police, legal system, healthcare, education and even welfare.
No business treats its gross takings as its real profits. Thinkbof each economically active person as a business. What you charge,for your work is not your profit figure.
What the Royalty rate should be is debatable.
No business treats its gross takings as its real profits. Thinkbof each economically active person as a business. What you charge,for your work is not your profit figure.
What the Royalty rate should be is debatable.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 19th August 11:25
Breadvan72 said:
Another minority view. Tax is not a case of your property being grabbed by the State. It's a Royalty on economic activity, in return for which the State provides the setting for such activity. That setting includes defence, foreign policy, police, legal system, healthcare, education and even welfare.
No business treats its gross takings as its real profits. Thinkbof each economically active person as a business. What you charge,for your work is not your profit figure.
What the Royalty rate should be is debatable.
A royalty? It's still a tax by any other definition, and as I said, having already paid huge sums into this system that provides this setting, I absolutely begrudge giving HMG any more than I already will have done by the time I pass...No business treats its gross takings as its real profits. Thinkbof each economically active person as a business. What you charge,for your work is not your profit figure.
What the Royalty rate should be is debatable.
Edited by Breadvan72 on Tuesday 19th August 11:25
Bear in mind, 'we earners' already pay Council Tax, Road Tax (a pittance of which actually goes to the roads), Stamp Duty (another Tax on success), VAT, Fuel Duty (tax), Capital Gains Tax amongst lots of other taxes - I think if you work it out, we pay nearer 60-70% tax out of our income. It's disgusting that HMG can then grab another (substantial) chunk when you cease to be, instead of being able to pass it onto your relatives!
Jim1556 said:
A royalty? It's still a tax by any other definition, and as I said, having already paid huge sums into this system that provides this setting, I absolutely begrudge giving HMG any more than I already will have done by the time I pass...
Bear in mind, 'we earners' already pay Council Tax, Road Tax (a pittance of which actually goes to the roads), Stamp Duty (another Tax on success), VAT, Fuel Duty (tax), Capital Gains Tax amongst lots of other taxes - I think if you work it out, we pay nearer 60-70% tax out of our income. It's disgusting that HMG can then grab another (substantial) chunk when you cease to be, instead of being able to pass it onto your relatives!
Personally I'd ramp up the taxes when we die in favour of taxes on what you have worked for. Bear in mind, 'we earners' already pay Council Tax, Road Tax (a pittance of which actually goes to the roads), Stamp Duty (another Tax on success), VAT, Fuel Duty (tax), Capital Gains Tax amongst lots of other taxes - I think if you work it out, we pay nearer 60-70% tax out of our income. It's disgusting that HMG can then grab another (substantial) chunk when you cease to be, instead of being able to pass it onto your relatives!
There are two perceptions on IHT, there's the 'I've paid tax on this already' approach, should be able to give it away but equally all transactions have tax attached. First income tax, then VAT, stamp duty etc, these are taxes paid for out of income that has already been taxed.
But IHT from the receiver end is totally unearned, undeserved income. Why shouldn't someone who has done nothing to earn it pay a lot of tax when someone who works to earn it currently pays more. Personally I'd increase IHT to relieve income tax et al for that reason.
HenryJM said:
Personally I'd ramp up the taxes when we die in favour of taxes on what you have worked for.
There are two perceptions on IHT, there's the 'I've paid tax on this already' approach, should be able to give it away but equally all transactions have tax attached. First income tax, then VAT, stamp duty etc, these are taxes paid for out of income that has already been taxed.
But IHT from the receiver end is totally unearned, undeserved income. Why shouldn't someone who has done nothing to earn it pay a lot of tax when someone who works to earn it currently pays more. Personally I'd increase IHT to relieve income tax et al for that reason.
Because income tax is a pay as you go kind of system. The country can't afford to live like it is at the moment, let alone reducing current taxes. Plus, everyone would make sure they spent their money instead of leaving it to the Government.There are two perceptions on IHT, there's the 'I've paid tax on this already' approach, should be able to give it away but equally all transactions have tax attached. First income tax, then VAT, stamp duty etc, these are taxes paid for out of income that has already been taxed.
But IHT from the receiver end is totally unearned, undeserved income. Why shouldn't someone who has done nothing to earn it pay a lot of tax when someone who works to earn it currently pays more. Personally I'd increase IHT to relieve income tax et al for that reason.
I personally would like to leave some to my family - remember, they're not getting taxed for receiving my hard earned, my estate is! ie ME!
Either way, I'll just have to make sure I've given away anything that's over and above the threshold.
The system needs overhauling and attitudes need to change - there's too many people wanting to live off the state by having babies, fawning disabilities, and general layabouts! Whereas people who actually tried hard a school, got a career and are financially successful pay for all this...
Yes, society needs to change to one where your quality of life is dictated by your effort and abilities,with a safety net for the more unfortunate who suffer due to illness or disability.
Those who haven't earned it don't deserve it and that includes the benefit scrounger and those who are given money rather than earn it.
Everything I have I've earned, along the way I've employed a lot of people, earned millions in exports and done, I believe, a lot of things that benefit me and this country. That should be encouraged.
I also stand to inherit money from my parents. Why? That's money I've done nothing to deserve, why shouldn't it be heavily taxed, I didn't earn it?
Those who haven't earned it don't deserve it and that includes the benefit scrounger and those who are given money rather than earn it.
Everything I have I've earned, along the way I've employed a lot of people, earned millions in exports and done, I believe, a lot of things that benefit me and this country. That should be encouraged.
I also stand to inherit money from my parents. Why? That's money I've done nothing to deserve, why shouldn't it be heavily taxed, I didn't earn it?
HenryJM said:
Yes, society needs to change to one where your quality of life is dictated by your effort and abilities,with a safety net for the more unfortunate who suffer due to illness or disability.
Those who haven't earned it don't deserve it and that includes the benefit scrounger and those who are given money rather than earn it.
Everything I have I've earned, along the way I've employed a lot of people, earned millions in exports and done, I believe, a lot of things that benefit me and this country. That should be encouraged.
I also stand to inherit money from my parents. Why? That's money I've done nothing to deserve, why shouldn't it be heavily taxed, I didn't earn it?
Because it's already been taxed!Those who haven't earned it don't deserve it and that includes the benefit scrounger and those who are given money rather than earn it.
Everything I have I've earned, along the way I've employed a lot of people, earned millions in exports and done, I believe, a lot of things that benefit me and this country. That should be encouraged.
I also stand to inherit money from my parents. Why? That's money I've done nothing to deserve, why shouldn't it be heavily taxed, I didn't earn it?
Not everyone's as fortunate as you, there's been plenty of cases of children haven to sell their family home to pay an IHT bill. It's bloody wrong!
Jim1556 said:
Because it's already been taxed!
Not everyone's as fortunate as you, there's been plenty of cases of children haven to sell their family home to pay an IHT bill. It's bloody wrong!
Most taxes are on taxed income, VAT is a tax on earned income, Stamp Duty is a tax on earned income etc. etc. Not everyone's as fortunate as you, there's been plenty of cases of children haven to sell their family home to pay an IHT bill. It's bloody wrong!
IHT is on money you have been given and haven't earned. If you have to sell some of the assets within it - so what? They are still getting things they haven't earned.
HenryJM said:
Most taxes are on taxed income, VAT is a tax on earned income, Stamp Duty is a tax on earned income etc. etc.
IHT is on money you have been given and haven't earned. If you have to sell some of the assets within it - so what? They are still getting things they haven't earned.
Spoken by somebody who clearly has never had to pay IHT.IHT is on money you have been given and haven't earned. If you have to sell some of the assets within it - so what? They are still getting things they haven't earned.
Wait until you're faced with paying a 5 or 6 figure sum and then see how you feel about it. I guarantee you'll care then.
Centurion07 said:
HenryJM said:
Most taxes are on taxed income, VAT is a tax on earned income, Stamp Duty is a tax on earned income etc. etc.
IHT is on money you have been given and haven't earned. If you have to sell some of the assets within it - so what? They are still getting things they haven't earned.
Spoken by somebody who clearly has never had to pay IHT.IHT is on money you have been given and haven't earned. If you have to sell some of the assets within it - so what? They are still getting things they haven't earned.
Wait until you're faced with paying a 5 or 6 figure sum and then see how you feel about it. I guarantee you'll care then.
Jon1967x said:
As my IHT bill is paid by my estate, I'll be dead when I have to pay. Nobody else will pay it for me. It is/was my money. It's the governments way of having one last dip into my pocket after I've stopped being a voter
My understanding is IHT has to be paid before the estate is handed over to the beneficiary(s), often allowing the banks to make some money out of the whole process with a nice big loan.This brings us back to what happens if the will is not written properly. There could be a delay of several years while everyone sorts out the mess, but presumably the IHT has to be paid up front before everything is sorted and the estate is divided up.
Interestingly, in Switzerland most areas or cantons operate an IHT exemption for spouse (similar to UK) as well as descendants, which seem eminently sensible, however varying degrees of %age is levied on other bequests such as Parents, brothers, sisters, etc etc.
I guess this supports the natural 'inheritance of wealth' theme. Nevertheless, other taxes are very different and different again (wealth tax for example) between Cantons.
Intriguing!
I guess this supports the natural 'inheritance of wealth' theme. Nevertheless, other taxes are very different and different again (wealth tax for example) between Cantons.
Intriguing!
Centurion07 said:
HenryJM said:
Most taxes are on taxed income, VAT is a tax on earned income, Stamp Duty is a tax on earned income etc. etc.
IHT is on money you have been given and haven't earned. If you have to sell some of the assets within it - so what? They are still getting things they haven't earned.
Spoken by somebody who clearly has never had to pay IHT.IHT is on money you have been given and haven't earned. If you have to sell some of the assets within it - so what? They are still getting things they haven't earned.
Wait until you're faced with paying a 5 or 6 figure sum and then see how you feel about it. I guarantee you'll care then.
Where I differ from many is that, like my father, I have grown a business from scratch and am wealthy in my own right. That money is money I feel I deserve and I resent people saying that I should pay more of the money I've earned in tax. What I've done means a lot of people are employed and paying tax.
I distinguish between earned money/deserved money and inherited/undeserved money. I value money I've earned, I don't value money I've been given. If taxes are to be changed then tax the undeserved money, my parents having that money isn't down to me, I don't particularly want to see any of it.
Breadvan72 said:
Tax is not a case of your property being grabbed by the State. It's a Royalty on economic activity, in return for which the State provides the setting for such activity. That setting includes defence, foreign policy, police, legal system, healthcare, education and even welfare.
I love this angle on Tax BV, not something I had thought of however, are you saying HMG is therefore running some kind of legalised protection racket? We wre therefore under the control of some kind of Mafia of which CMD is currently "The Don". Everything is beginning to fall into place.........HenryJM said:
Centurion07 said:
HenryJM said:
Most taxes are on taxed income, VAT is a tax on earned income, Stamp Duty is a tax on earned income etc. etc.
IHT is on money you have been given and haven't earned. If you have to sell some of the assets within it - so what? They are still getting things they haven't earned.
Spoken by somebody who clearly has never had to pay IHT.IHT is on money you have been given and haven't earned. If you have to sell some of the assets within it - so what? They are still getting things they haven't earned.
Wait until you're faced with paying a 5 or 6 figure sum and then see how you feel about it. I guarantee you'll care then.
Where I differ from many is that, like my father, I have grown a business from scratch and am wealthy in my own right. That money is money I feel I deserve and I resent people saying that I should pay more of the money I've earned in tax. What I've done means a lot of people are employed and paying tax.
I distinguish between earned money/deserved money and inherited/undeserved money. I value money I've earned, I don't value money I've been given. If taxes are to be changed then tax the undeserved money, my parents having that money isn't down to me, I don't particularly want to see any of it.
That aside, the bit in bold is the real point. An inheritance has already been taxed when it was accruing over the deceased's lifetime, and now the government feel they can help themselves to another 40% (over £325K) just so they can piss it up against the nearest immigrant/welfare scrounger/nhs IT project?
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