Discretion. What does it mean?
Discussion
Streetcop said:
There is a clear difference between the two examples you give. Theft always causes harm. A motoring offence is usually victimless.
Tell that the the families who's loved ones have been killed by those committing 'motoring offences'
At least 10 people die every day on the UK's roads...nearly always due to someones 'fault'.
Theft doesn't kill in the same numbers as the roads do..
If at least 10 people were murdered by thieves every day; there'd be an outcry from the public. A shame that road deaths seem to mean so little.
Aber, Liebchen - most of these accidents are down to driver error und the speed ist a contributory factor und not prime factor. Was not speed of artic which killed my cousin - but weight of artic which had failed brakes und worn tyres - und guy who hit me was ill und hit throttle. Was not speed per se which caused either accident - und if you are honest - speed per se ist not prime cause of majority of accidents..IG - my BiB cousin witnessed on low impact in supermarket car park - und the one was 25 mph (too fast in car park) und person who caused accident (she was quarrelling instead of driving car properly - apparently
) was driving lot more slowly ....Apparently - there were some broken limbs for my cousin's colleagues to sort (he was off duty und not in shiniest uniform ...
) but adminstered first aid und got his chaps out to scene to sort it ....not sure how the discretion bit worked thereafet though.....
Streetcop said:
Wildcat...
8 out of 10 of the fatal RTCs in my force are down to excessive speed...
There's no getting away from that...
>> Edited by Streetcop on Monday 28th February 00:34
Then this ist not normal. IanH (our local - und I know him by sight as seen him in his Galaxy (have feline eyesight
) - ( 
I hope he does not know me by sight 
....). But our Ian describes two recent incidents in our patch over on Paulie's site - chap hit tree at 62 mph in low speed area - he had argument mit pal und was seething with anger. he was also high on booze und drugs....und another lost control in bad overtake - und injured innocent driver - und again the person atfault was drunk und still raging after arguing mit his girly. This appears to be case ... something causes the anger und the silly recklessness - but the alert driver who just blips over speed limit does not normally have accident. Your 8/10 must have another factor which caused the loss of one of the COAST element in the driving. Ist difficult to detach from argument or upset - nicht? That ist why Ted never drove to me when I was very poorly in hospital once a long time ago now - The pregnancy was different - ist natural state und urgency to get me to hospital to give birth was slightly different state of affairs - was not life threatening as such.
Driver error also includes excess speed for the conditions / road type / visibiltiy.
As well as too fast for the level of driving experiance of ther driver or vehicle capabilities.
Driver error is the main cause more than likely of RTC's (definately the ones i have attended) but this includes many factors.
Weather - traffic load - speed - drivers perception of traffic speed etc etc etc.
All of which speed with be a factor. Too fast for the weather, too fast for traffic load, lack of perception of speed from vehcle 1.
Bout time people started taking responsibility for their actions. If you travel in excess of the posted limit then you run the risk of getting 3 points or more.
If a limit has been set too low IYHO then goto the people that post the limits. There may be a reason for the lowered limit.
End of the day its YOUR decision to travel in excess of the posted limit, and its OUR decision to enforce the penalty system.
And unfortuenately if we deal with a fatal or injury RTC the day before on that strecth of the road then i will enforce the posted limit. (taking conditions and driver behaviour into account)
Gareth <<Tired of picking people up off the roads due to DRIVER ERROR and delivering the death message after.
As well as too fast for the level of driving experiance of ther driver or vehicle capabilities.
Driver error is the main cause more than likely of RTC's (definately the ones i have attended) but this includes many factors.
Weather - traffic load - speed - drivers perception of traffic speed etc etc etc.
All of which speed with be a factor. Too fast for the weather, too fast for traffic load, lack of perception of speed from vehcle 1.
Bout time people started taking responsibility for their actions. If you travel in excess of the posted limit then you run the risk of getting 3 points or more.
If a limit has been set too low IYHO then goto the people that post the limits. There may be a reason for the lowered limit.
End of the day its YOUR decision to travel in excess of the posted limit, and its OUR decision to enforce the penalty system.
And unfortuenately if we deal with a fatal or injury RTC the day before on that strecth of the road then i will enforce the posted limit. (taking conditions and driver behaviour into account)
Gareth <<Tired of picking people up off the roads due to DRIVER ERROR and delivering the death message after.
Bollox to all this COAST and Roadcraft and all the other things that people think they might display to avoid prosecution....
The vast majority of Fatals in my county are excessive speed fatals...FACT
I'll tell you one thing....if a PH'ers child was killed by a speeding motorist...there'd not be much forgiveness if the driver had been COASTING, Roadcrafting or anything else...
Oh, it'd be all different then...
..."hang, draw and quarter them" etc etc
"All change"....ding ding..."All change"
The vast majority of Fatals in my county are excessive speed fatals...FACT
I'll tell you one thing....if a PH'ers child was killed by a speeding motorist...there'd not be much forgiveness if the driver had been COASTING, Roadcrafting or anything else...
Oh, it'd be all different then...
..."hang, draw and quarter them" etc etc "All change"....ding ding..."All change"
JoolzB said:
If I drive like a total arse with no regard for other road users or pedestrians then fine, stop me and prosecute me but use discretion when what I'm doing really doesn't harm anyone.
So, what you are effectively saying is "let me off if I don't appear to be causing a problem, even though I know it is law breaking and I am doing it on purpose"
The problem is that your excess speed may have the possibility of harning someone if it goes wrong for you.
Speeding law is a safety measure to achieve just that. If everyone was allowed to chose the speed they personally felt happy with, we would have vehicles travelling at speeds anywhere from the sublime to the ridiculous.
A traffic officer may well know/understand that you were not causing any danger at that particular moment and that is why he/she uses his/her discretion to bring you to book for the speeding alone and not some additional offence along with it!
gone said:
If I drive like a total arse with no regard for other road users or pedestrians then fine, stop me and prosecute me but use discretion when what I'm doing really doesn't harm anyone.
So, what you are effectively saying is "let me off if I don't appear to be causing a problem, even though I know it is law breaking and I am doing it on purpose"
The problem is that your excess speed may have the possibility of harning someone if it goes wrong for you.
Speeding law is a safety measure to achieve just that. If everyone was allowed to chose the speed they personally felt happy with, we would have vehicles travelling at speeds anywhere from the sublime to the ridiculous.
A traffic officer may well know/understand that you were not causing any danger at that particular moment and that is why he/she uses his/her discretion to bring you to book for the speeding alone and not some additional offence along with it!
Just because it didnt go wrong today doesnt mean it wont go wrong tomorow if you were allowed to continue unchecked.
Strassencop said:
This discretion thing....is a strange one to uphold...
I mean ....if the law is the law...why should we have discretion with motoring offences...
Should we have discretion with theft offences...ie: people be allowed to steal thing upto a certain amount...like £5 for example...so if you nicked several Mars Bars..you'd be ok..but if you lifted a box of Milk Tray, then you'll be arrested...
(sounds daft..but that's discretion)
Ist different - you are nicking tangible und depriving someone of income from selling the product - whereas 34 mph in a 30 mph zone ist not causing any harm so long as COAST elements are applied ...
Strassencop said:
Why should discretion apply to motoring offences...?
Is it fair that one driver is punished for doing 50mph in a 40mph zone, while another is let off with a warning. Should the sign be 40mph, unless it's quiet, or in the night..etc
But this ist what ist happening mit these prats - some prosecute at 10% + 0 and some at 10% + 3 - und some offer a course as alternative und others do not. Thus we have discretion of a sort (all expensive
- but the same rules should be applied up und down the country!)egoboss said:
There's been no discretion by Streetcop today..
I've had 46mph in a 40mph today...and even a 47mph in a 30 mph...
Motorway highest today....121mph...over 3 mile.
over 3 miles!? were you unmarked or was the driver just dumb?!
incredible.
He wanted to get back to see the Rugby....
I was in a 5 series BMW, battenburg marking etc etc...
I just chose some good lane positioning, so he didn't see me...however, it would only have needed a bit more of a look from him to see me.
Streetcop said:
He wanted to get back to see the Rugby....
I was in a 5 series BMW, battenburg marking etc etc...
I just chose some good lane positioning, so he didn't see me...however, it would only have needed a bit more of a look from him to see me.
well, he certainly deserves to be prosecuted, being so unaware and citing such a petty reason for being in such a rush - and unless he was irish he will be doubly pissed off today then. are there still a large number of 100mph+ motorway drivers?
egoboss said:
are there still a large number of 100mph+ motorway drivers?
Difficult to quantify...
I mean this guy was doing it at 2pm...on a busy motorway...the chances of coming 'unstuck' were very real....However, the guy did slow down to 70mph when the traffic was thick...and several times, I considered abandoning the checks...believing he was going to behave...then he'd boot it again..to treble figures and we'd be off again...
He had a nice Mercedes, but his actions were at the best selfish...at the worst dangerous.
Streetcop said:
Bollox to all this COAST and Roadcraft and all the other things that people think they might display to avoid prosecution....
The vast majority of Fatals in my county are excessive speed fatals...FACT
I'll tell you one thing....if a PH'ers child was killed by a speeding motorist...there'd not be much forgiveness if the driver had been COASTING, Roadcrafting or anything else...
Oh, it'd be all different then...
"All change"....ding ding..."All change"
Liebchen - I spent almost year in ICU und two years in a wheelchair after someone drove int the rear of my stationary car. He was ill und hit throttle - he struck rear of my car at 80 mph or thereabouts. He died - for insurance purpose on impact or just after (we had a to-do mit insurance company over time of death at time - they tried to get out of paying damages)
BUT a HEALTHY (ie sober, undrugged, alert,) driver who applies COAST has noted all dangers und will have adjusted to safest speed on sight of danger. That ist the difference. FACT - remains that the drivers who have the ACCIDENTS are not apply COAST, are probably impaired in some way - about 10- 15% of all drivers are this type und cousin (Durham) und cousin (GMP) unbd cousin (Met) und their Papa (former superintendent who trained Hendon drivers in hey day) all reckon that this 15% cause 70% of all accidents. Not one scam will track them und doubtful even finest BiB could do so either. But these are types who are causing all the problems...
But I would say majority of normal drivers tootle along mit some level of COAST in their driving anyway - if they did not then there would be lot more accidents.
>> Edited by WildCat on Monday 28th February 01:13
Streetcop said:
are there still a large number of 100mph+ motorway drivers?
Difficult to quantify...
I mean this guy was doing it at 2pm...on a busy motorway...the chances of coming 'unstuck' were very real....However, the guy did slow down to 70mph when the traffic was thick...and several times, I considered abandoning the checks...believing he was going to behave...then he'd boot it again..to treble figures and we'd be off again...
He had a nice Mercedes, but his actions were at the best selfish...at the worst dangerous.
is very reassuring to hear of your commonsense approach. i very rarely exceed 100mph and then only very briefly - eg - if to get away from a gaggle of badly driven east european hgv's for example. i could never consider cruising at such a speed on our motorway system and to be frank i found it rather unsettling when on german autobahns. manic.
am happy to bumble along all day at 80, m'self.
120+ on a busy motorway does sound rather dangerous.
It's a bit of a simple idea this one....but hear me out...
What about.......
....obeying the speed LIMIT on the road which you are travelling on...perhaps..if the conditions warrant it...even travelling less than the speed limit...
Why do people find that so difficult?
If they don't think they limit is for them....they should openly accept any fixed penalty as a result as an occupational hazard..not something to whine/whinge about....
doing the time, doing the crime and all that...
What about.......
....obeying the speed LIMIT on the road which you are travelling on...perhaps..if the conditions warrant it...even travelling less than the speed limit... Why do people find that so difficult?
If they don't think they limit is for them....they should openly accept any fixed penalty as a result as an occupational hazard..not something to whine/whinge about....
doing the time, doing the crime and all that...
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