RE: Trucker wins speed camera case

[mattvenn]

They just can't stand being wrong. Amazing. I think these jumped-up little shit stains should be beaten with big sticks and taught a lesson. Even better, I know where these money makers (camera's) are manufactured. Anyone want the address??

[cdp]

If this gets publicity they (the scameraship) will most likely drop the case, the risks are too high.

Then again there were the roadworks on the motorway where the camera was snapping people who had left the limit. It caused the wrongfull convictions of 4000 people, and the operators said they wouldn't contact these people.

So even if the lorry driver wins the case it won't make any difference to the partnerships. Afterall, what have the nicities of the legal process got to do with them?

[Peter Ward]

Deltafox said:

...Just who are these little tyrants who think theyve got some kind of god given right to inflict their abhorrent ideas and actions on everyone else?...

But they're only doing their jobs. We might not like the jobs they do, but the government, the police, the local authorities, the magistrates, etc are fully behind them and the general public has been "persuaded" likewise.

So it's not a god-given right, but a public duty that they are performing, courtesy of the government.

But you knew that really

[Peter Ward]

AMG Merc said:

I thought that tachographs were set and calibrated by the DOT or similar - if so then why does a public (pubic possibly!) servant want to argue against a tacho reading? ;-(

But isn't it possible for a tacho to be tampered with? I thought there was a fuse you could remove that switched it off. And aren't the date and driver written on by hand each day? So theoretically you might be able to "lose" the evidence and recreate a new disc as an alibi that shows what you want it to? Or am I out of date on these things?

[philthy]

One thing I know for a FACT, tachographs are very accurate. Have a look at the summary after one has been professionaly analysed. Having said that, the last 20-30 trucks I've driven over the last couple of years, have all overread their speed (less than the 56Mph indicated). Checked using GPS kit. All were doing 52-53Mph.
This guy needs to get them in court, so we can all have a laugh at the partnerships expense.

Phil

[james_j]

Streetcop said:

off_again said: How much "interference" does a modern truck driver need? 1) Tachograph 2) Speed limiters (usually 60 or 55) 3) Road site cameras Proven by one method to be under the speed limit, yet they still want to "do" him over this. As mentioned, EXACTLY HOW MUCH MONEY DO WE HAVE TO SPEND ON THIS? Its all tax payers money.... Gits.... Let's hope you'll be voting Conservative next time..

Quite.

[joe_90]

james_j said:

Streetcop said: off_again said: How much "interference" does a modern truck driver need? 1) Tachograph 2) Speed limiters (usually 60 or 55) 3) Road site cameras Proven by one method to be under the speed limit, yet they still want to "do" him over this. As mentioned, EXACTLY HOW MUCH MONEY DO WE HAVE TO SPEND ON THIS? Its all tax payers money.... Gits.... Let's hope you'll be voting Conservative next time.. Quite.

err.. how would the Conservative handle it differently.. or any other party for that matter?

[Flat in Fifth]

philthy said:

One thing I know for a FACT, tachographs are very accurate. Have a look at the summary after one has been professionaly analysed. Having said that, the last 20-30 trucks I've driven over the last couple of years, have all overread their speed (less than the 56Mph indicated). Checked using GPS kit. All were doing 52-53Mph. This guy needs to get them in court, so we can all have a laugh at the partnerships expense. Phil

Phil is absolutely correct here. The guy also needs to make sure, just to bang the last nail in the pratnerships coffin, that he gets his tacho calibrated again. Then he cannot lose imho, as I said before assuming the tacho evidence is accurate and been correctly interpreted.

If anyone wonders about the accuracy of these things it is possible from analysis to see, say in a collision investigation, where the driver changed gear, where he lifted off the gas, where he hit the brakes.

Its even possible with the aid of an accurate map to determine the route a driver took. Knowing a start or finish point, preferably both, you can look at the trace. OK here we see he slowed for a T junction, did he turn right or left? Well here he continued at a constant x mph, so unlikely that he took the left route because here there is a roundabout. Thus the possible routes are eliminated and narrowed down to a handful typically. Useful if one wants to know where a vehicle stopped long enough to unload a stolen cargo, if you see what I mean.

Tachos are going digital, but don't even get me started on the inability to agree a common standard.

[Deltafox]

Peter Ward said:

But they're only doing their jobs. We might not like the jobs they do, but the government, the police, the local authorities, the magistrates, etc are fully behind them and the general public has been "persuaded" likewise.

Germany.1939-1945. "I was only doing my job, only following orders".


(not a dig at you Peter or what you posted, just pointing out why its no defence)

[mikeatBB]

The PPP comments ……..who the hell do these so called Project managers think they are?. They should be falling over themselves to ensure the Cameras are accurate and EVERY other legal requirement is met. We are talking about the livelihood and reputation of valuable members of the community like lorry drivers and delivery men and PSV drivers NOT useless parasites like the SCAMERAs. It’s about time somebody sued an individual Project Manager for damages. If Mr Clayton had been stopped by a Patrol car they would have been no argument !. NOTE David Edgar will attend any future hearing as an 'expert witness!..............Mike

[Mr Whippy]

Well, it's been seen here, forgot the name who sent an email.

Erm, goes like this.

Send email to "safety" partnership, about a mini-roundabout that was dangerous, people pulling out and not giving way.

They reply saying a camera wouldn't solve the problem here, and so is not their problem, and say to the complainer to contact the council.

So, they don't care about anything clearly, not REAL road safety. Don't even care about innocence ffs!

All they care about is the "notion" of safe roads, which is ok. Just a shame they can't direct this enthusiasm in a constructive direction...

Dave

[philthy]

Just a further thought. I got pinged by Wiltshire trafpol through the windscreen of their car. I'm led to believe this is against all the rules. However, my tacho indicated about 105Kmh. They checked it, and were perfectly happy to accept it's accuracy.
In this instance, it corroborated their speedgun perfectly I would have contested it if I'd not had a tachograph to finger me.

"You pays your money, you takes your chance"

Phil

[Deadly Dog]

This so-called "Project Manager" is clearly an ignorant buffoon. Radar-based, fixed post (i.e. Gatso) speed enforcement is notoriously inaccurate against high-sided vehicles. The vibrating body panels can distort the radar reflection causing substantial over-read. Steve Warren of UK Speedtraps demonstrated this flaw years ago when he aimed a hand-held radar gun at a vibrating loudspeaker and obtained a speed reading of 100mph.

Cases like this are all too common but at least in this instance the scammers admitted defeat after a check was carried out against the secondary markings.

>> Edited by Deadly Dog on Monday 21st March 21:59

[sgt^roc]

However, a project manager at the local camera partnership has said that he is happy that the camera was working, and that he wants to resurrect the case.

Why do thy alway make a statement that is void of conclusive proof, why do they just print the date that show he camera is correct?

[sgt^roc]

Streetcop said:

off_again said: How much "interference" does a modern truck driver need? 1) Tachograph 2) Speed limiters (usually 60 or 55) 3) Road site cameras Proven by one method to be under the speed limit, yet they still want to "do" him over this. As mentioned, EXACTLY HOW MUCH MONEY DO WE HAVE TO SPEND ON THIS? Its all tax payers money.... Gits.... lets hope Let's hope you'll be voting Conservative next time..

[sgt^roc]

mattvenn said:

They just can't stand being wrong. Amazing. I think these jumped-up little shit stains should be beaten with big sticks and taught a lesson. Even better, I know where these money makers (camera's) are manufactured. Anyone want the address??

yep 10 years ago they must have here a nice little earner that will save lives as well and yet 10 years later the casualities have gone up and still their determined to use them.

>> Edited by sgt^roc on Monday 21st March 23:29

[towman]

philthy said:

One thing I know for a FACT, tachographs are very accurate. Have a look at the summary after one has been professionaly analysed. Having said that, the last 20-30 trucks I've driven over the last couple of years, have all overread their speed (less than the 56Mph indicated). Checked using GPS kit. All were doing 52-53Mph. This guy needs to get them in court, so we can all have a laugh at the partnerships expense. Phil

Phil - I`ll play devils advocate here. If I got pinged by a camera, first thing I`d do is repeat the journey the following day passing the camera at a slower speed. He was driving a skip truck, so he`s only going to be local.

Other ways to confuse a tacho.......Bend the trace needle. Change the diff. Change the wheel/tyre size.

But then again, I do hate a bad loser.

[philthy]

towman said:

Phil - I`ll play devils advocate here. If I got pinged by a camera, first thing I`d do is repeat the journey the following day passing the camera at a slower speed. He was driving a skip truck, so he`s only going to be local. Other ways to confuse a tacho.......Bend the trace needle. Change the diff. Change the wheel/tyre size. But then again, I do hate a bad loser.

I see where your going with the repeat journey Steve , as for bending the needle, it makes no difference, the trace just records under the bottom line. When analysed, it's the hight of the trace relative to it's own bottom line regardless of where it is. I agree, changing the diff/wheels would work, but seems a bit drastic.
They use the bloody things against the people that break the rules, it's a bit unfair to ignore them when they prove someone is not guilty.

Phil

[loaf]

Deltafox said:

Anybody else think that this just smacks of pure unadulterated spitefulness? Just who are these little tyrants who think theyve got some kind of god given right to inflict their abhorrent ideas and actions on everyone else? Heres what i think should happen to em. Every single one of these sleazers that are employed by this "empire of corruption"<aka> "The partnerships" should be dragged from their beds in the wee hours of the night and taken to a cold damp place and the living shite beaten out of them with cables and hoses until they beg for mercy....then beat the crap out of em some more. Maybe THEN theyll get the message that nasty, greedy, power hungry SCUM like them wont be tolerated in our society. God i hate these pricks with a passion. Personal opinion, not affiliated with the site owners..blah, blah and blah.

You mind you don't get splinters in your arse, sitting on the fence like that...

[Flat in Fifth]

philthy said:

towman said: Phil - I`ll play devils advocate here. If I got pinged by a camera, first thing I`d do is repeat the journey the following day passing the camera at a slower speed. He was driving a skip truck, so he`s only going to be local. Other ways to confuse a tacho.......Bend the trace needle. Change the diff. Change the wheel/tyre size. But then again, I do hate a bad loser. I see where your going with the repeat journey Steve , as for bending the needle, it makes no difference, the trace just records under the bottom line. When analysed, it's the hight of the trace relative to it's own bottom line regardless of where it is. I agree, changing the diff/wheels would work, but seems a bit drastic. They use the bloody things against the people that break the rules, it's a bit unfair to ignore them when they prove someone is not guilty. Phil

Thats why I say he MUST get his tacho calibrated as the final nail in the coffin.

Steve's question about repeating the journey is a very fair one. Consider this though.

As pointed out a skip lorry is local, lots of stops, waiting / loading / unloading time what have you. To be right he'd have to repeat his days work EXACTLY or very close.

Then suppose one had someone on the prosecution side intent on proving the case, lots of potentials for potholes like questioning a customer that taken a delivery / collection. "Did you have a skip delivered on mm/yy/dd" Answer "Yes we did, funny you should ask that but noticed the lorry came back the next day but we hadn't finished with the skip so he just maneouvred round a bit then went away again"

OK so a point is being stretched but you see what I mean, a repeat journey on local work is easier said than done. Equally long distance, you have to make sure that at the exact time you were pinged you have to be at or about the place where the camera was otherwise you could get a trace which is untypical of the road in question, eg providing long steady speed trace on a road which has frequent bends and other hazards is just begging for questions to be asked.

FiF