Not signaling in designated turning lane - without due care
Discussion
surveyor_101 said:
Ok so caught the eye of a local beat sergeant by pulling onto a steep hill in residential area and accelerating briskly to above 30 briefly. Then I get to the top of hill and there is a mini roundabout that has left and right only turn lanes. You can't go straight on there is a wall. I stopped and stayed in left lane and went left without signaling.
The hill is steep and people often speed down it so I don't hang about getting out of the junction.
Officer was in a non emgerency focus with no blue lights but I noticed him behind he at the roundabout as he was following me way to close. He followed me past the police station so I decided to stop.i have driven like an angel since turning left. He pulled in behind and asked me what the speed limit on the road I had been on and I said 30. He was single crewed and not happy. I give him my argument for getting out of the junction fast. He then says if he writes me up for not signaling in the left hand turn lane at the roundabout where I went left its without due care and he is positive it will go to court.
Ok so he tells me the car is insured with no drivers listed? So what it's insured. He says he can now sieze the car under section 12 PACE. Not sure why. He says he will sieze dash cam and is stated not much use if I wiped the card before we stopped. He then says that preventing the course of justice, which since I don't know I am being stopped by police why would it be.
Did you get done or not?The hill is steep and people often speed down it so I don't hang about getting out of the junction.
Officer was in a non emgerency focus with no blue lights but I noticed him behind he at the roundabout as he was following me way to close. He followed me past the police station so I decided to stop.i have driven like an angel since turning left. He pulled in behind and asked me what the speed limit on the road I had been on and I said 30. He was single crewed and not happy. I give him my argument for getting out of the junction fast. He then says if he writes me up for not signaling in the left hand turn lane at the roundabout where I went left its without due care and he is positive it will go to court.
Ok so he tells me the car is insured with no drivers listed? So what it's insured. He says he can now sieze the car under section 12 PACE. Not sure why. He says he will sieze dash cam and is stated not much use if I wiped the card before we stopped. He then says that preventing the course of justice, which since I don't know I am being stopped by police why would it be.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Saturday 22 July 17:53
No started playing mr nice when I said your single crewed and we both know it your word against mine. Then your so is x and goes to this school in year one my daughters in your class. Then it's yes, ok well please do go carefully along that road: I said I thought I had seen you are school pickup and your wife is and does y. He said ok will take care we shook hands and off we went.
surveyor_101 said:
No started playing mr nice when I said your single crewed and we both know it your word against mine. Then your so is x and goes to this school in year one my daughters in your class. Then it's yes, ok well please do go carefully along that road: I said I thought I had seen you are school pickup and your wife is and does y. He said ok will take care we shook hands and off we went.
Have you been 'celebrating'? 
vonhosen said:
The point is he still physically could turn right from that lane (his position). If it's only about body language then we may as well remove indicators from all vehicles as they are then redundant.
The whole point of signals is to give others information about your intent to assist them in their decisions, it's considerate.
Stop avoiding the issue. Was this... "driving without due care and attention", or not?The whole point of signals is to give others information about your intent to assist them in their decisions, it's considerate.
johnao said:
vonhosen said:
The point is he still physically could turn right from that lane (his position). If it's only about body language then we may as well remove indicators from all vehicles as they are then redundant.
The whole point of signals is to give others information about your intent to assist them in their decisions, it's considerate.
Stop avoiding the issue. Was this... "driving without due care and attention", or not?The whole point of signals is to give others information about your intent to assist them in their decisions, it's considerate.
There are two 'potential' separate offences for Sec 3 RTA.
Without due care & Inconsiderate driving, the second requires somebody to be inconvenienced the first doesn't.
What I was addressing was the two things posed.
1) Speedos not having to be calibrated in order to be relied upon in evidence.
2) The purpose of signalling.
Interesting that several have been told you don't need to indicate in a marked turn lane, how do other road users approaching the roundabout know this?
An example.
You approach roundabout on a 2 lane carriageway. You can go left or right at roundabout. Left in a single lane, right is 2 lanes.
Road markings on your approach indicate that left lane is right or left turn. Right lane is right turn only.
Surely those in left hand lane must indicate if going left or right? How would this be different to OPs example where he doesn't need to indicate?
Genuine question.
An example.
You approach roundabout on a 2 lane carriageway. You can go left or right at roundabout. Left in a single lane, right is 2 lanes.
Road markings on your approach indicate that left lane is right or left turn. Right lane is right turn only.
Surely those in left hand lane must indicate if going left or right? How would this be different to OPs example where he doesn't need to indicate?
Genuine question.
Last I checked a follow check was a bit longer than 500 yards.
Single crewed I would be surprised if speeding would stick. I think that was the main issue he felt I was exceeding the 30 by briskly accelerating to what would of been just above 30 prior to coming to a stop at the roundabout.
I think the signal thing was something he wished he hadn't said because when I pointed out the lanes he looked a bit dumb founded and the. Said it's still without due care if I right it up and go to court. Like it would ever get there but if policing by bulls
t is his style hey ho.
Met his type when I was 18 and I was written up for dangerous as the officer was much like this guy. Then after he did my statement he said ok dropping to due care. 2 months later said Avon somerset were dropping the whole thing due to not enough evidence. Again back in the 90s but was the same single crewed one statement rubbish. That guy was roads policing.
Single crewed I would be surprised if speeding would stick. I think that was the main issue he felt I was exceeding the 30 by briskly accelerating to what would of been just above 30 prior to coming to a stop at the roundabout.
I think the signal thing was something he wished he hadn't said because when I pointed out the lanes he looked a bit dumb founded and the. Said it's still without due care if I right it up and go to court. Like it would ever get there but if policing by bulls
t is his style hey ho.Met his type when I was 18 and I was written up for dangerous as the officer was much like this guy. Then after he did my statement he said ok dropping to due care. 2 months later said Avon somerset were dropping the whole thing due to not enough evidence. Again back in the 90s but was the same single crewed one statement rubbish. That guy was roads policing.
Evanivitch said:
Interesting that several have been told you don't need to indicate in a marked turn lane, how do other road users approaching the roundabout know this?
An example.
You approach roundabout on a 2 lane carriageway. You can go left or right at roundabout. Left in a single lane, right is 2 lanes.
Road markings on your approach indicate that left lane is right or left turn. Right lane is right turn only.
Surely those in left hand lane must indicate if going left or right? How would this be different to OPs example where he doesn't need to indicate?
Genuine question.
Same here when I learnt I was told not to signal in designated turn lanes and when I did my advanced. In his opinion it may be good practice if you like but saying the Highway Code and roadcraft say you should indicating whenever changing direction is just codswallop! An example.
You approach roundabout on a 2 lane carriageway. You can go left or right at roundabout. Left in a single lane, right is 2 lanes.
Road markings on your approach indicate that left lane is right or left turn. Right lane is right turn only.
Surely those in left hand lane must indicate if going left or right? How would this be different to OPs example where he doesn't need to indicate?
Genuine question.
People wonder why folk have no respect for the police and it this bulls
t threats doesn't help.Thinking about him now I not sure if he didn't stop me in plain clothes in a unmarked q7 outside Yeovil. Had jeans and t shirt on but stopped me on a303 and put a police highviz so technically not in uniform. He was tailgating the crap out of me so I put my foot down (thinking Avon and Somerset dont run q7s and if they do they don't drive like that)on the dual track and of course he lights me up and reads riot act for speeding and said he was busy but make a log against my Reg so if seen again etc ...
Edited by surveyor_101 on Saturday 22 July 23:41
Junction
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Galmington+Dr,...
If you look at the left hand lane the road follows to the left so very unlikely you would go right. If cars approaching the roundabout then yes but just one behind not nesexessry in my opinion.
He said fact if he writes it up it's without due care- in reality I can't see it going to court.
He also said my camera gps can be used to prove speed in court. Has that been tested?
Finally he said if I had wiped my camera memory card I am preventing the course. Again he would have to proof offence in first place which is not going to be easy.
All of this without caution I might add.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Galmington+Dr,...
If you look at the left hand lane the road follows to the left so very unlikely you would go right. If cars approaching the roundabout then yes but just one behind not nesexessry in my opinion.
He said fact if he writes it up it's without due care- in reality I can't see it going to court.
He also said my camera gps can be used to prove speed in court. Has that been tested?
Finally he said if I had wiped my camera memory card I am preventing the course. Again he would have to proof offence in first place which is not going to be easy.
All of this without caution I might add.
surveyor_101 said:
No started playing mr nice when I said your single crewed and we both know it your word against mine. Then your so is x and goes to this school in year one my daughters in your class. Then it's yes, ok well please do go carefully along that road: I said I thought I had seen you are school pickup and your wife is and does y. He said ok will take care we shook hands and off we went.
If you didn't get done, then just STFU. Seriously, your whingeing is quite painful and there's no story here. You probably acted like a cock to wind him up and he retorted in kind. surveyor_101 said:
Junction
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Galmington+Dr,...
If you look at the left hand lane the road follows to the left so very unlikely you would go right. If cars approaching the roundabout then yes but just one behind not nesexessry in my opinion.
He said fact if he writes it up it's without due care- in reality I can't see it going to court.
He also said my camera gps can be used to prove speed in court. Has that been tested?
Finally he said if I had wiped my camera memory card I am preventing the course. Again he would have to proof offence in first place which is not going to be easy.
All of this without caution I might add.
All the time he's talking to you he's actually looking for something deeper, i.e. do you seem nervous, do you smell of cannabis, what naughty tools might be in your car etc etc. If he suspects something then the signalling issue would be overtaken by the drugs ... so if he let you off he obviously didn't suspect.https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Galmington+Dr,...
If you look at the left hand lane the road follows to the left so very unlikely you would go right. If cars approaching the roundabout then yes but just one behind not nesexessry in my opinion.
He said fact if he writes it up it's without due care- in reality I can't see it going to court.
He also said my camera gps can be used to prove speed in court. Has that been tested?
Finally he said if I had wiped my camera memory card I am preventing the course. Again he would have to proof offence in first place which is not going to be easy.
All of this without caution I might add.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff