ex tenants deposit claim
Discussion
superlightr said:
Its an absolute offence - it either is or is not protected correctly. The court MUST award upto 3x the deposit. Yes it is clear cut that the OP will lose if he has not protected the deposit correctly. The question as to how much will be dependant on the court. Its not wasting the courts time if a breach of the law has occurred.
If the OP has failed to protect the deposit, it is also quite likely that he has failed to to provide the Prescribed Information as well. IF this goes to court, based on what we know so far the minimum penalty amount of 1x the deposit must be awarded. That is on top of the return of the deposit itself. However all is not doom and gloom as he may have a counterclaim.Andehh said:
VERY reasonable. Be prepared for them to turn their nose up at it now and drag it all out until closer the court date and then ask for more/accept/play silly buggers. Ultimately, they will fold before the actual Court appearance. No win/no Fee at this stage will be getting nervous over you being reasonable & the cost of them attending court and being seen as unreasonable. They will stretch it out as long as possible because greed/nature of their business model.
Hole firm, remain reasonable and with EVERY action you take, ensure you hold the morale high ground, as this will be your ability to get the whole thing thrown out. You = reasonable, them = greedy. Court will take note....
I would send the cheque to solicitors, but write letters, signed & dated (keep copies yourself) and send them recorded delivery to solicitors and to her. Explain you are doing this.
If the other side has already rejected an offer of 2k to make this go away, I can't see them agreeing to the lesser amount the OP is now suggesting.Hole firm, remain reasonable and with EVERY action you take, ensure you hold the morale high ground, as this will be your ability to get the whole thing thrown out. You = reasonable, them = greedy. Court will take note....
I would send the cheque to solicitors, but write letters, signed & dated (keep copies yourself) and send them recorded delivery to solicitors and to her. Explain you are doing this.
However do I wonder whether the ambulance chasers representing the departed tenant are aware of her rent arrears? If the OP can provide proof and show that he has demanded it then I reckon they might well blink first, fold their tent, and discontinue.
Sad to say, but the OP has done just about everything wrong in this saga. The days of being an amateur landlord went out of the window years ago. You simply have to get your ducks in a row and be aware of your obligations if you want to avoid the risk of having your a
e handed to you.SantaBarbara said:
If the tenant did not leave a forwarding address, then surely the OPs defence could be
The deposit was ready to be returned but we did not have an address to send it to
I think that is a good defence as a starting point. IMHO there is one single deposit, one tenancy agreement etc. She only paid one deposit, how can she claim it was two?The deposit was ready to be returned but we did not have an address to send it to
I agree that that the days, well certainly my days of being an amateur landlord are over. My own naivety and trust in people has been shattered and I won't be going down this road again. I have made a mistake and I admit it, but the tenant also did not fulfil the terms of the tenancy.
I would not object so much if the penalty were a fine to be paid into the public purse, but I do object to paying somebody who already owes me thousands more money than I have to.
I didn't pursue her for the money, as I had no forwarding address and I would be unlikely to get my money, even if I managed to get a CCJ against her.
I think that this will be the next great compensation scam for these claims firms and I think that things like this will drive smaller/amateur landlords out of the market and eventually push rents up as bigger companies come in.
Lets not forget that this tenant would probably not have passed a credit check or had references, she was getting a bigger house than her housing benefit would have paid for.
I would not object so much if the penalty were a fine to be paid into the public purse, but I do object to paying somebody who already owes me thousands more money than I have to.
I didn't pursue her for the money, as I had no forwarding address and I would be unlikely to get my money, even if I managed to get a CCJ against her.
I think that this will be the next great compensation scam for these claims firms and I think that things like this will drive smaller/amateur landlords out of the market and eventually push rents up as bigger companies come in.
Lets not forget that this tenant would probably not have passed a credit check or had references, she was getting a bigger house than her housing benefit would have paid for.
alfie2244 said:
Until he has to show how and where it was registered, as per the law requires...then what?
there can be no 'defence' as such, all I am trying to do is justify a reduction in the penalty which seems excessive. lets not forget, she hasn't actually suffered a loss, so what is there to compensate?
deposit was 480
she leaves owing ~3500 in unpaid rent which I didn't pursue, then 11months later demands 3600 from me in compensation, unreal.
As I said before I admit my fault in this and am not trying to justify not protecting her deposit.
mobbsy30 said:
Hi,
On Wednesday I received a letter from a solicitor stating that an ex tenant has made a claim for an unprotected deposit, they are asking for 3600 pounds which they say is made up of 480 (the initial deposit) plus 3 times the deposit as a penalty, for the initial tenancy and the same again for the second count. They are claiming that when the tenancy rolled over to a periodic tenancy they can claim this again.
I believe this figure to be 3840 pounds.
The tenant left in November 2016 owing me approximately the same figure in rent, she left no forwarding address and disappeared abandoning her daughter.
After the initial letter I phoned the solicitor and offered to return the deposit but no more, after their refusal I became annoyed and hung up saying 'well take me to court then'. My wife since phoned them and offered 2000 to settle, although I was reluctant. Having added up what she owes and thinking about it for a few days I think that I would be better going to court as from what I have read the likely penalty is repay the deposit plus one times penalty.
Does anybody have any experience with this stuff and how these cases go once at court, any help would be appreciated,
thanks
The FIRST thing you should have done before replying was to consult a solicitor yourselfOn Wednesday I received a letter from a solicitor stating that an ex tenant has made a claim for an unprotected deposit, they are asking for 3600 pounds which they say is made up of 480 (the initial deposit) plus 3 times the deposit as a penalty, for the initial tenancy and the same again for the second count. They are claiming that when the tenancy rolled over to a periodic tenancy they can claim this again.
I believe this figure to be 3840 pounds.
The tenant left in November 2016 owing me approximately the same figure in rent, she left no forwarding address and disappeared abandoning her daughter.
After the initial letter I phoned the solicitor and offered to return the deposit but no more, after their refusal I became annoyed and hung up saying 'well take me to court then'. My wife since phoned them and offered 2000 to settle, although I was reluctant. Having added up what she owes and thinking about it for a few days I think that I would be better going to court as from what I have read the likely penalty is repay the deposit plus one times penalty.
Does anybody have any experience with this stuff and how these cases go once at court, any help would be appreciated,
thanks
mobbsy30 said:
alfie2244 said:
Until he has to show how and where it was registered, as per the law requires...then what?
there can be no 'defence' as such, all I am trying to do is justify a reduction in the penalty which seems excessive. lets not forget, she hasn't actually suffered a loss, so what is there to compensate?
deposit was 480
she leaves owing ~3500 in unpaid rent which I didn't pursue, then 11months later demands 3600 from me in compensation, unreal.
As I said before I admit my fault in this and am not trying to justify not protecting her deposit.
I fully accept that I failed to protect the deposit (£480) as legally required and understand the possible penalty for this failure could be 3x this amount so I offer you client £1440 accordingly.
You should also be aware that your client failed to pay the full amount of rent monies payable under the terms of the legally binding contract between us. The shortfall being the sum of £3,580.
I therefore look forward to receiving you client's payment of £2,140 in full and final settlement of this matter.
alfie2244 said:
Dear Sir
I fully accept that I failed to protect the deposit (£480) as legally required and understand the possible penalty for this failure could be 3x this amount so I offer you client £1440 accordingly.
You should also be aware that your client failed to pay the full amount of rent monies payable under the terms of the legally binding contract between us. The shortfall being the sum of £3,580.
I therefore look forward to receiving you client's payment of £2,140 in full and final settlement of this matter.
I really wish this would work, would it?I fully accept that I failed to protect the deposit (£480) as legally required and understand the possible penalty for this failure could be 3x this amount so I offer you client £1440 accordingly.
You should also be aware that your client failed to pay the full amount of rent monies payable under the terms of the legally binding contract between us. The shortfall being the sum of £3,580.
I therefore look forward to receiving you client's payment of £2,140 in full and final settlement of this matter.
mobbsy30 said:
alfie2244 said:
Dear Sir
I fully accept that I failed to protect the deposit (£480) as legally required and understand the possible penalty for this failure could be 3x this amount so I offer you client £1440 accordingly.
You should also be aware that your client failed to pay the full amount of rent monies payable under the terms of the legally binding contract between us. The shortfall being the sum of £3,580.
I therefore look forward to receiving you client's payment of £2,140 in full and final settlement of this matter.
I really wish this would work, would it?I fully accept that I failed to protect the deposit (£480) as legally required and understand the possible penalty for this failure could be 3x this amount so I offer you client £1440 accordingly.
You should also be aware that your client failed to pay the full amount of rent monies payable under the terms of the legally binding contract between us. The shortfall being the sum of £3,580.
I therefore look forward to receiving you client's payment of £2,140 in full and final settlement of this matter.
As far as I understand it Courts don't look too kindly on those that go straight to legal action without 1st trying to negotiate / mediate.
If it were me I would start with this, assuming they refuse, I would then move a little towards them, i.e. reduce sum to £1,500.
Should it then end up in Court it will show you have tried to resolve the issue without involving the Court whereas they haven't and the Court may not look too kindly on them for not doings so....especially when she actually owes you not the other way round.
2 Wrongs don't make a right but at the end of the day she has breached a legal contract to the sum of £3,500.You have breached the contract to a sum of £1,500.
If you can prove her failings then why not start a small claims case against her now you know where she is (or her solicitor is)?
mobbsy30 said:
Hi,
On Wednesday I received a letter from a solicitor stating that an ex tenant has made a claim for an unprotected deposit, they are asking for 3600 pounds which they say is made up of 480 (the initial deposit) plus 3 times the deposit as a penalty, for the initial tenancy and the same again for the second count. They are claiming that when the tenancy rolled over to a periodic tenancy they can claim this again.
I believe this figure to be 3840 pounds.
The tenant left in November 2016 owing me approximately the same figure in rent, she left no forwarding address and disappeared abandoning her daughter.
After the initial letter I phoned the solicitor and offered to return the deposit but no more, after their refusal I became annoyed and hung up saying 'well take me to court then'. My wife since phoned them and offered 2000 to settle, although I was reluctant. Having added up what she owes and thinking about it for a few days I think that I would be better going to court as from what I have read the likely penalty is repay the deposit plus one times penalty.
Does anybody have any experience with this stuff and how these cases go once at court, any help would be appreciated,
thanks
What date did the rental contract first commence, and was it in Scotland were things may be different What about the inventory was and thing missing or damaged?On Wednesday I received a letter from a solicitor stating that an ex tenant has made a claim for an unprotected deposit, they are asking for 3600 pounds which they say is made up of 480 (the initial deposit) plus 3 times the deposit as a penalty, for the initial tenancy and the same again for the second count. They are claiming that when the tenancy rolled over to a periodic tenancy they can claim this again.
I believe this figure to be 3840 pounds.
The tenant left in November 2016 owing me approximately the same figure in rent, she left no forwarding address and disappeared abandoning her daughter.
After the initial letter I phoned the solicitor and offered to return the deposit but no more, after their refusal I became annoyed and hung up saying 'well take me to court then'. My wife since phoned them and offered 2000 to settle, although I was reluctant. Having added up what she owes and thinking about it for a few days I think that I would be better going to court as from what I have read the likely penalty is repay the deposit plus one times penalty.
Does anybody have any experience with this stuff and how these cases go once at court, any help would be appreciated,
thanks
September 2014, no inventory to speak of, house is unfurnished and needed decoration when she moved in, but she knew this, and to be fair she approached me (she lived opposite and knew that the houses on the other side of the road had longer gardens, and also that the previous tenant had moved out)
house was rented cheaper to her on the basis that if I paid for materials etc. she would sort decoration and she could do it how she wanted it. So I wouldn't dispute anything there.
house was rented cheaper to her on the basis that if I paid for materials etc. she would sort decoration and she could do it how she wanted it. So I wouldn't dispute anything there.
mobbsy30 said:
alfie2244 said:
Dear Sir
I fully accept that I failed to protect the deposit (£480) as legally required and understand the possible penalty for this failure could be 3x this amount so I offer you client £1440 accordingly.
You should also be aware that your client failed to pay the full amount of rent monies payable under the terms of the legally binding contract between us. The shortfall being the sum of £3,580.
I therefore look forward to receiving you client's payment of £2,140 in full and final settlement of this matter.
I really wish this would work, would it?I fully accept that I failed to protect the deposit (£480) as legally required and understand the possible penalty for this failure could be 3x this amount so I offer you client £1440 accordingly.
You should also be aware that your client failed to pay the full amount of rent monies payable under the terms of the legally binding contract between us. The shortfall being the sum of £3,580.
I therefore look forward to receiving you client's payment of £2,140 in full and final settlement of this matter.
As for counterclaiming for the rent arrears, if you don't know where your ex-tenant is now you'll have to spend money on a tracing agent.
Besides even if you did win, actually getting paid is something else. If she skipped owing that much in rent what makes you think she has any money/assets with which to settle the debt?
The case that Slagathore referred to can be found here - http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/1789....
There were alleged rent arrears in that one too but those were denied: that issue formed no part of the judgement.
See paragraph 16. It's not looking promising for you tbh.
He also mentioned a landlord's association. I agree. For example sign up/register to - https://www.landlordzone.co.uk/
mobbsy30 said:
Alucidnation said:
What happened to all the rental money from the tenancy?
well her payments were around 3500 less than the rent. but the rest of it went on. gas safety checks, a new boiler, various remedial works, the mortgage, my tax bill, insurance, where do you think it went?Being a landlord isn't for you.
I have a few properties that always need maintaining and yet after that, I still have plenty of funds available for any unforeseen issues.
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