Is this Private road a public Highway?
Discussion
deadpixel said:
I will provide the info if it helps, I though it would hinder at first and I have been out all morning.
Last year my car broke down (from what I thought was a flat tyre) on a red route, I pulled in to a parking bay which was "No stopping 7am-7pm. except parking for 1hr 7am-4pm" the bay is around 100m long outside some shops and there is only one sign so I didn't actually see it/look at it. I jacked up the car took off the wheel, it turned out not to be a flat tyre but the wheel bearing making a flat tyre sound so I put the wheel back on and drove it carefully home.
I received a PCN last year from TFL, saying that I had parked on a red route when I shouldn't of along with some photo stills as evidence. The pictures where of my car, slightly angled up at the back, carefully timed when I was on my hands and knees jacking up the car from the other side so it looks unattended. I argued my case with TFL, saying that if the looked at the video they would clearly see my struggling with a cheap carjack in the rain but they had none of it.
The next thing I heard was when a private bailiffs were writing letters saying I owed them a few 100 pounds. Then I had one saying that my car was due to be removed, this is why I am asking if they can clamp remove the car as I believe the road I live on is not a public highway, and that is the only place they can clamp/take your car, along with your driveway.
I hope that is enough info, Let me know if you need me to elaborate any further.
This is farcical. Your whole situation is of your own making and your approach is completely irrelevant. You’re looking for some magical technicality, which simply doesn’t exist. Why didn’t you pay the ticket when your appeal failed? It’s not a ticket issued by a PPC.Last year my car broke down (from what I thought was a flat tyre) on a red route, I pulled in to a parking bay which was "No stopping 7am-7pm. except parking for 1hr 7am-4pm" the bay is around 100m long outside some shops and there is only one sign so I didn't actually see it/look at it. I jacked up the car took off the wheel, it turned out not to be a flat tyre but the wheel bearing making a flat tyre sound so I put the wheel back on and drove it carefully home.
I received a PCN last year from TFL, saying that I had parked on a red route when I shouldn't of along with some photo stills as evidence. The pictures where of my car, slightly angled up at the back, carefully timed when I was on my hands and knees jacking up the car from the other side so it looks unattended. I argued my case with TFL, saying that if the looked at the video they would clearly see my struggling with a cheap carjack in the rain but they had none of it.
The next thing I heard was when a private bailiffs were writing letters saying I owed them a few 100 pounds. Then I had one saying that my car was due to be removed, this is why I am asking if they can clamp remove the car as I believe the road I live on is not a public highway, and that is the only place they can clamp/take your car, along with your driveway.
I hope that is enough info, Let me know if you need me to elaborate any further.
I know that this is likely to be picked on by others, but I find it quite bizarre that given your personal circumstances, you seem incapable of understanding the difference between “were” and “where”, as well as “of” and “have”.
desolate said:
Am I wrong to think that you can't legally be clamped on private land by anybody, and that a private contractor can't clamp you on the highway unless acting on behalf of the local authority?
Not entirely wrong. A vehicle's movement can be restricted on private land by a fixed barrier that must have been present, closed or not, when the car was parked. Basically, locking a car in with a gate to prevent it being driven out. Any release charges would have to be clearly signed though.Thank you.
Makes a lot of difference.
This explains the process Tfl will follow for penalty charges:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/penalt...
A bit of googling leads me to believe Tfl use four bailiff companies for enforcement of non-payment of Tfl's various fines & charges. A bit more googling leads me to believe these are actually High Court Enforcement Officers.
If you are familiar with the programme 'The Sheriffs are coming' you will have an idea of what an HCEO is & can do.
This recent PH thread 'Can bailiffs seize your car?':
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Makes a lot of difference.
This explains the process Tfl will follow for penalty charges:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/penalt...
A bit of googling leads me to believe Tfl use four bailiff companies for enforcement of non-payment of Tfl's various fines & charges. A bit more googling leads me to believe these are actually High Court Enforcement Officers.
If you are familiar with the programme 'The Sheriffs are coming' you will have an idea of what an HCEO is & can do.
This recent PH thread 'Can bailiffs seize your car?':
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by paintman on Saturday 13th January 14:51
ElectricPics said:
Not entirely wrong. A vehicle's movement can be restricted on private land by a fixed barrier that must have been present, closed or not, when the car was parked. Basically, locking a car in with a gate to prevent it being driven out. Any release charges would have to be clearly signed though.
By "not entirely wrong" do you mean I was right with what I typed and that your post adds further information or that some of what I typed was wrong?
Gavia said:
This is farcical. Your whole situation is of your own making and your approach is completely irrelevant. You’re looking for some magical technicality, which simply doesn’t exist. Why didn’t you pay the ticket when your appeal failed? It’s not a ticket issued by a PPC.
I know that this is likely to be picked on by others, but I find it quite bizarre that given your personal circumstances, you seem incapable of understanding the difference between “were” and “where”, as well as “of” and “have”.
The "Technicality" that you refer to is whether the enforcement agents have committed and offence under the "Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013"I know that this is likely to be picked on by others, but I find it quite bizarre that given your personal circumstances, you seem incapable of understanding the difference between “were” and “where”, as well as “of” and “have”.
Edited by deadpixel on Saturday 13th January 15:51
desolate said:
ElectricPics said:
Not entirely wrong. A vehicle's movement can be restricted on private land by a fixed barrier that must have been present, closed or not, when the car was parked. Basically, locking a car in with a gate to prevent it being driven out. Any release charges would have to be clearly signed though.
By "not entirely wrong" do you mean I was right with what I typed and that your post adds further information or that some of what I typed was wrong?deadpixel said:
The "Technicality" that you refer to is whether the enforcement agents have committed and offense under the "Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013"
So they’ve taken your car? If so, you need to be asking questions somewhere other than here as said previously. It’s offence btw
This also goes into details of where they can/cannot clamp so your OP now makes sense.
http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/index/motor-vehic...
"For the avoidance of doubt, a bailiff/ enforcement agent is not permitted to take control of a vehicle in either a public or a private car park (which includes supermarket car parks, large shopping outlets, hospitals, motorway service areas etc), unadopted roads or other land that is owned by private individuals (such as a neighbour’s or relatives driveway)."
Does a company owning land class as a 'private individual' & would this apply?
If they can't get your car then you're likely to have to keep a sharp lookout every time you get a knock at the door & tell visitors the same i.e don't open the door.
http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/index/motor-vehic...
"For the avoidance of doubt, a bailiff/ enforcement agent is not permitted to take control of a vehicle in either a public or a private car park (which includes supermarket car parks, large shopping outlets, hospitals, motorway service areas etc), unadopted roads or other land that is owned by private individuals (such as a neighbour’s or relatives driveway)."
Does a company owning land class as a 'private individual' & would this apply?
If they can't get your car then you're likely to have to keep a sharp lookout every time you get a knock at the door & tell visitors the same i.e don't open the door.
deadpixel said:
...Last year my car broke down (from what I thought was a flat tyre) on a red route,
...turned out not to be a flat tyre but the wheel bearing making a flat tyre sound so I put the wheel back on and drove it carefully home.
...
Your car did not break down. You heard a noise. You stopped to check it out and chose to stop in a restricted area. You could have seen straight way that the tyre was not flat. I am not surprised that you received a a ticket. Pay up....turned out not to be a flat tyre but the wheel bearing making a flat tyre sound so I put the wheel back on and drove it carefully home.
...
Gavia said:
This is farcical. Your whole situation is of your own making and your approach is completely irrelevant. You’re looking for some magical technicality, which simply doesn’t exist. Why didn’t you pay the ticket when your appeal failed? It’s not a ticket issued by a PPC.
I know that this is likely to be picked on by others, but I find it quite bizarre that given your personal circumstances, you seem incapable of understanding the difference between “were” and “where”, as well as “of” and “have”.
The "Technicality" that you refer to is whether the enforcement agents have committed and offense under the "Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013"I know that this is likely to be picked on by others, but I find it quite bizarre that given your personal circumstances, you seem incapable of understanding the difference between “were” and “where”, as well as “of” and “have”.
Breadvan72 said:
Your car did not break down. You heard a noise. You stopped to check it out and chose to stop in a restricted area. You could have seen straight way that the tyre was not flat. I am not surprised that you received a a ticket. Pay up.
Wait a minute, What's this I see?! The Judge, Jury and executioner have turned up all in the same car!It is this level of sanctimony that encourage me to keep my OP straight forward and simple without irrelevant facts, I never intended people to feel the need to weigh up whether or not I was guilty of a parking violation and subsequent events.
When driving along and hear a loud bang from a wheel followed by grinding noises, failing to stop would be a rather idiotic thing to do, In fact I would say you owe a duty of car to your passengers and other road users to determine and evaluate the fault. It turns out that me material of a component of my car had indeed broke down. Each to their own I suppose.
Many thanks to the constructive posters, its good to see things from different perspectives.
Breadvan72 said:
Bloke lives in poshest part of Dulwich but is semi literate, thinks his car has broken down when a wheel bearing makes a noise, and is too tightfisted to pay a red route fine and so has his car lifted. Comedyfest.
Again, Ad hominem, inaccurate and not relevant to the OP.Edited by deadpixel on Saturday 13th January 16:00
paintman said:
Oh FFS. I see more drip feed info while I was composing my last post. So in addition to what you condescended to tell me the position is that they've actually got your car.
Have fun.
Please believe me, I had no intention to come across as condescending, my sole intention was to keep things simple and no wasting people time by providing immaterial information and try avoid irrelevant posts from nonconstructive individuals saying, "You're guilty, pay up,' and discussing the size of property in the neighborhood.Have fun.
And no, they don't the car, its in a locked garage for the time being.
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