Done w/out insurance - 3 days out. Need advice!

[s2art]

Whats the big deal about this rather 'holier than thou', not wearing seatbelt attitude?
So he wasnt wearing a seatbelt, he knew the risks, so what? Do you think it any more dangerous than driving, say, an MX5 without a roll bar?

[mechsympathy]

s2art said:

Do you think it any more dangerous than driving, say, an MX5 without a roll bar?

It's much easier to hit someone and plant your head through the windscreen than roll an MX5.

[hedders]

s2art said:

Whats the big deal about this rather 'holier than thou', not wearing seatbelt attitude? So he wasnt wearing a seatbelt, he knew the risks, so what? Do you think it any more dangerous than driving, say, an MX5 without a roll bar?

Or perhaps being a passenger on public transport.

Why is it only cars that require seatbelts when buses and trains do not, don't they crash?

[s2art]

mechsympathy said:

s2art said: Do you think it any more dangerous than driving, say, an MX5 without a roll bar? It's much easier to hit someone and plant your head through the windscreen than roll an MX5.

Not that easy with modern airbags. If you can plant your head on the screen thru an airbag I doubt the seatbelt would have helped much.

[superflid]

FFS, it's his head!

Yes, no seatbelt could be more dangerous than wearing one.

So f'ing what.....

[mechsympathy]

s2art said:

Not that easy with modern airbags. If you can plant your head on the screen thru an airbag I doubt the seatbelt would have helped much.

It's still possible. UK airbags are designed to help a seatbelt rather than replace one (Unlike US airbags.)

[Johnny G Pipe]

Blimey, haven't you lot got jobs to go to! Seriously, thanks guys for the replies. Pistonheads is a busier place than it used to be!

I wanted to get some sort of perspective on how going to court might go, and it sounds like a bad idea from quite a few informed-sounding posters. Sounds like I should roll over like a good boy...

My only lifeline appears to be trying to get some sort of proof that I would have been covered, as it was within five days of expiry: Flux won't actually give me a straight answer. I'm not hopeful. They've been pretty good, i.e. cheap, in the past btw, especially for modded cars.
You will have all noticed the insurance companies tendency in general to be quick to increase premiums for things like this, but a slight, err, reluctance to lower the premium for advanced motorists, etc. Hell, my road angel says '50% fewer road accidents' on the packet. Surely that's worth a discount!

I appreciate those who have concerns about the seatbelt thing. I understand perfectly that it is highly protective, even at low speeds. But why don't you try working 120 hours in a week, get woken up from a deep sleep in the wee small hours to the sound of a pager, and be expected to function normally immediately. Believe me, it doesn't always work like that.

I am also slightly intrigued by the purpose of enforcing an individual's seatbelt use. Surely, the risk is entirely to myself? Maybe I should drop in on the wpc when she lights up a cigarette, or goes horse riding, or rock climbing, and ask her to pay me a few grand?

Here's another thing: Surely an untaxed vehicle is also automatically not validly insured? How about IN10's for everyone who lets their Tax lapse for a day or two?

Finally, my reason for not renewing was simply that I hadn't opened my mail in a few days, and missed my urgent reminder. See above for excuses. I'd had an initial reminder, a month previously, and I knew it was due pretty soon. But Months have a habit of disappearing as soon as they have started, don't they? Just look at what happened to April.

Thanks again.
Johnny.

>> Edited by Johnny G Pipe on Thursday 28th April 13:32

[gargamel]

Johnny

My mate had a very similar experience - he went to court - got off with a £30 fine and no endorsement.


Your best route is to provide 3rd party cover from one of your other cars if you can

second best is to go for mitigation - your profession will count in your favour with the court

[Dwight VanDriver]

Your only escape is through your Insurance Company.

If they are prepared to accept your explanation that renewal was an oversight then they could issue a new Certificate commencing the day when the old expired providing premium paid. This was always accepted under the old 14 days temporary cover at the end of a certificate to enable renewal. So, go through the policy with a fine tooth comb and see if this is there and if so another approach to Insurance Company to see if on payment of premium they will play ball and either provide a letter to the effect they considered themeselves at risk on the fatal day or a certificate with that date on it.

Other than having your Health Authority admit they own the vehicle and you were using it in the course of their business then that is a let out.

Unfortunately looks as if you are up the creek wifart a paddle.

....and no an expired Excise Licence does not invalidate Insurance..

DVD

[MR2Mike]

Johnny G Pipe said:

I am also slightly intrigued by the purpose of enforcing an individual's seatbelt use. Surely, the risk is entirely to myself?

Ever thought about the people in the fire and paramedic services that have to scrape you off the windscreen afterwards? The huge hold ups inconviencing the general public and the police time involved in investigating a fatal accident? And how about the possibility of you living and the cost to the state of keeping you alive as a vegetable?

Just a little thought would show that the seat belt policy is not just about your safety.

FWIW I feel the same about smoking, but that's a whole different topic (and one widely covered on PH).

[M@H]

Surely if you just phone up A.F. and innocently say.. "Hi I'd like to renew my policy.. sorry I'm a few days late, I forgot" they will churn out a new policy dated from the expiry of the old one.. job done.

Matt.

[s2art]

MR2Mike said:

Johnny G Pipe said: I am also slightly intrigued by the purpose of enforcing an individual's seatbelt use. Surely, the risk is entirely to myself? Ever thought about the people in the fire and paramedic services that have to scrape you off the windscreen afterwards? The huge hold ups inconviencing the general public and the police time involved in investigating a fatal accident? And how about the possibility of you living and the cost to the state of keeping you alive as a vegetable? Just a little thought would show that the seat belt policy is not just about your safety. FWIW I feel the same about smoking, but that's a whole different topic (and one widely covered on PH).

Well the airbag covers the bulk of the risk, the seatbelt is not as important as it used to be.
But aside from that, by your logic we would not ride motorbikes, or for that matter drive older cars which dont meet modern safety standards. Or go mountain climbing, hang gliding etc. etc.

[Johnny G Pipe]

MR2Mike said:

Ever thought about the people in the fire and paramedic services that have to scrape you off the windscreen afterwards? The huge hold ups inconviencing the general public and the police time involved in investigating a fatal accident? And how about the possibility of you living and the cost to the state of keeping you alive as a vegetable? Just a little thought would show that the seat belt policy is not just about your safety. FWIW I feel the same about smoking, but that's a whole different topic (and one widely covered on PH).

Yes, as I clearly said, I fully understand the implications; I always normally wear my seatbelt, but at this time I was just overworked and overtired.
(EDIT: and, fwiw, the journey was a slow half-a-mile float thru a deserted/traffic light infested town centre from one hospital to another)

The car is owned by me, insured by me, incidentally. The company I eventually renewed with refused to backdate.

Gargamel, do you have any more detail on your mate's story? It would be very helpful. Cheers.



>> Edited by Johnny G Pipe on Thursday 28th April 17:06

[gargamel]

Well his was a little different as he was driving without tax, insurance and had an illegal tyre.

therefore he had to go to court, he explained the situation to the magistrate. Just commence new job, needed the car, would normally be insured, managed to produce a third party insurance certificate as a named driver on another policy (the insurance system has changed since then) and basically he got away with it on the day.

No much help in the days of fpn, since if you contest and are guilty it can be risky.

[gemini]

[quote]

But why don't you try working 120 hours in a week, get woken up from a deep sleep in the wee small hours to the sound of a pager, and be expected to function normally immediately. Believe me, it doesn't always work like that.

Thanks again.
Johnny.

[quote]




Ever heard of Gary Hart?
Jez -

>> Edited by gemini on Thursday 28th April 16:55

[gemini]

gargamel said:

Well his was a little different as he was driving without tax, insurance and had an illegal tyre. therefore he had to go to court, he explained the situation to the magistrate. Just commence new job, needed the car, would normally be insured, managed to produce a third party insurance certificate as a named driver on another policy (the insurance system has changed since then) and basically he got away with it on the day.

Funny how its always a "mate"
I cannot believe that for one minute

[IOLAIRE]

Nano2nd said:

i think knowing you weren't insured at the time of the orignal tug, hasn't helped if you'd have genuinely missed your renewal by a few days then you'd have discovered the error when producing your documents. In court "bugger i missed my renewal date coz i'm stupid, i'm really sorry" looks far better than "yeah i knew i was uninsured, but drove anyway, i'll sort it when i get chance.." plus as above: your a doctor, frequent A+E !! and you drive without a seat belt?

Oh yes, and as a doctor in an A&E unit, he'll be the first one to tell you about the horrendous injuries from seat belts and premature airbag detonation, particularly in high speed collisions, and especially to the passenger.

[gtr-gaz]

Edited because that comment was not in the best of taste. Sorry

>> Edited by gtr-gaz on Friday 29th April 07:02

[Vesuvius996]

I am very very sorry about this, but it will only go to mitigation and potentially meana smaller penalty. You drove the acr without a valid inurance policy.

If you want some advice on pleas in mitigation and stuff then em me off board.

Sorry dude.

[gargamel]

Gemini

Please don't imply that I am a liar, I have said it was a few years ago (1995 or 6) if I recall

The chap in question is a normally upstanding member of the public who got behind on his paperwork, agree the consequences had he had an accident would have been bad, but he didn't he just got pulled late one night

Also as I said - the main charge of no insurance he managed to circumvent by using another policy on which he was a named drived.