Getting (some) satisfaction after losing money
Discussion
tinnitusjosh said:
First thing i would want to do (as a lawyer) is see a copy of the original debt instrument and the 'guarantee' - have you done that? If the guarantee is somehow to be governed by English law, then there are formalities to observe that, if not met, could result in the guarantee being unenforceable.
Do you think that Amigo haven’t bothered to get their contracts looked over by a lawyer before using them?Chances of Amigo having dropped the ball are negligible.
OP, best bet is to dig I to your savings or take out a cheap loan yourself and pay this off and then as others have said pursue a claim against the scrute that dropped your son in it.
Pro Bono said:
My initial response would be for your son to write to Amigo saying that he was only 20 (or whatever age he was) when he signed the guarantee, and didn't understand what he was letting himself in for. He should say that he should have been advised to obtain independent advice before entering into the guarantee, but wasn't, and that the guarantee is therefore unenforceable.
.
What a load of rubbish. 20 is not a child, and the contract is simple enough that no advice is needed. The money would have been paid into his account, and he would have then chosen to pass it to his friend, that’s how Amigo works..
It’s quite a clever business plan, they lend at sub-Prime rates to Prime borrowers.
George Smiley said:
With gdpr a reasonable fee for administration can be charged. This can be considerably more than £10 depending on the scale of the search.
Far from the truth. GDPR makes it clear that a charge should not be made except 'where the request is manifestly unfounded or excessive you may charge a “reasonable fee” for the administrative costs of complying with the request.' James_B said:
Do you think that Amigo haven’t bothered to get their contracts looked over by a lawyer before using them?
Who knows? Probably - but you're incredibly naive if you think that having them 'looked over' by a lawyer means they are bullet proof. The number of defective contracts i see every week that are drafted by even the biggest city firms is staggering. Even if they were bullet proof, the chances of the execution of the documents being compromised somehow - not witnessed, witness and/or signatory signed in wrong place - are not zero, and I very much doubt they had any sort of signing meeting overseen by lawyers. If I was actually interested in finding a way of avoiding paying, I can't see why you wouldn't look into that sort of basic issue first. That is literally contract law problem solving case study 101 - "is there an enforceable contract?"
James_B said:
Pro Bono said:
My initial response would be for your son to write to Amigo saying that he was only 20 (or whatever age he was) when he signed the guarantee, and didn't understand what he was letting himself in for. He should say that he should have been advised to obtain independent advice before entering into the guarantee, but wasn't, and that the guarantee is therefore unenforceable.
.
What a load of rubbish. 20 is not a child, and the contract is simple enough that no advice is needed. .
Evidently, Field Fisher, Law firm of the Year at the 2018 British Legal Awards and Law Firm of the Year at the 2018 Legal Business Awards don't have a clue what they're talking about when they say:
English courts have historically come to the aid of guarantors where it is perceived that the guarantor was not aware of the full implications of signing the guarantee.
For some time now, the courts have raised a presumption of "undue influence" where a party to a bank loan (whether a guarantor or a mortgagor) seems to have no commercial connection with the transaction. Typically, this might be a wife acting as guarantor or allowing the family home to be mortgaged as security for her husband's business in which she has no direct interest. In such instances, the courts will usually require proof that the wife has been independently advised and knew full well the obligations she was signing up to. If the beneficiary of the guarantee/mortgage cannot show this, they will often be unable to enforce their guarantee / mortgage.
https://www.fieldfisher.com/publications/2012/10/c...
Perhaps you should contact them with the benefit of your expertise and let them know where they've gone wrong.
ElectricPics said:
George Smiley said:
With gdpr a reasonable fee for administration can be charged. This can be considerably more than £10 depending on the scale of the search.
Far from the truth. GDPR makes it clear that a charge should not be made except 'where the request is manifestly unfounded or excessive you may charge a “reasonable fee” for the administrative costs of complying with the request.' elanfan said:
Ouch!
Though you could perhaps give him some advice on crop rotation or artificial inseminating cows?
Not likely, I’m not really a farmer. I am, though, relatively expert in the details of financial contracts, what with it being a big part of my job.Though you could perhaps give him some advice on crop rotation or artificial inseminating cows?
Edited by elanfan on Wednesday 24th October 00:43
Our smarmy respondent above needs to look at the clear descriptions Amigo give without clutching at straws like that. There are plenty of legal pages giving advice on Amigo, they do not tend to pretend that the contracts are invalid.
I can see why pro boni’s his thing, I can’t see many paying for such a half-arsed opinion...
pubrunner said:
Hi All,
It is not without considerable dismay, that I write this message.
My stepson is at University in Scotland and doing rather well on his degree - thank goodness !.
Last September (at a time when he was in UNI) a letter arrived at our home in Shropshire - addressed to him. The envelope had 'Amigo Loans' on it, so out of concern, we opened it. The letter thanked him for being a guarantor, for a loan that a 'friend' of his had taken out for £4,000 - to be repaid at £200 per month, over 3 years. His 'friend' is not a student, but someone that he met in Edinburgh - which is where the 'friend' lived and worked - though we believe he has now moved to Wales.
As we expected, his friend made the first payment, but has defaulted on the rest. We sent a letter - a kind of 'plea for help', to the 'friend's' parents, to see if they might intercede, following which, they made two monthly payments - but these then stopped. Our son has made three payments, but no further payments have been made since March.
Of course, we've ranted and raged at our son, but this is pretty futile and does nothing constructive to address the situation - ultimately, he is liable as guarantor, for the full amount owed. I've thought long and hard about the situation; we really don't want the lad to have a CCJ against him - that could really jeopardise his prospects of getting a job and home in the future.
I've decided, it would be better for us to pay off the debt in full - asap. The problem being, that the loan is (and will continue) to accrue interest at an extortionate rate - currently, it would cost about £4,000 to pay off the loan - the loan amount is what it was originally, as payments have been missed. If it were paid off over the next three years (or longer), the total of the repayments would be significantly higher than the £4,000 that might be paid now - especially as quite a few payments have been missed.
Although it would be (very) 'painful' to pay off the lot in full, it would clear the debt and hopefully, we (and our son) would be able to put the matter behind us - better than paying off the loan on a monthly basis for the next few years.
Now we are getting to the part where I'd really appreciate your help - if we pay off the loan in full, that will be the matter 'done & dusted'. However, it rather 'narks' me, that his 'friend' will get off, having made only one payment - and his credit history will be unaffected.
Is there any form of action that we (my son) could take against the smug little b@st@rd ? . . . realistically, it'll have to be some form of legal action .
The impression I have (which may well be wrong), is that under Scottish Law, the (Guarantor - my son) who discharges the liability (by paying off the loan), is be entitled to assignment of all securities held by the creditor. Assuming, that is, that they have any assets. That said, we've heard that the scumbag is now living in Wales - so if we were to go after him, which legal body might we use ?
Might there be on scope for action via MoneyClaim (or the Scottish equivalent) ?
Or is the only option, a voodoo doll and a few long pins . . . or is there something else ?
Could you change the settings on your profile so I can emil you.It is not without considerable dismay, that I write this message.
My stepson is at University in Scotland and doing rather well on his degree - thank goodness !.
Last September (at a time when he was in UNI) a letter arrived at our home in Shropshire - addressed to him. The envelope had 'Amigo Loans' on it, so out of concern, we opened it. The letter thanked him for being a guarantor, for a loan that a 'friend' of his had taken out for £4,000 - to be repaid at £200 per month, over 3 years. His 'friend' is not a student, but someone that he met in Edinburgh - which is where the 'friend' lived and worked - though we believe he has now moved to Wales.
As we expected, his friend made the first payment, but has defaulted on the rest. We sent a letter - a kind of 'plea for help', to the 'friend's' parents, to see if they might intercede, following which, they made two monthly payments - but these then stopped. Our son has made three payments, but no further payments have been made since March.
Of course, we've ranted and raged at our son, but this is pretty futile and does nothing constructive to address the situation - ultimately, he is liable as guarantor, for the full amount owed. I've thought long and hard about the situation; we really don't want the lad to have a CCJ against him - that could really jeopardise his prospects of getting a job and home in the future.
I've decided, it would be better for us to pay off the debt in full - asap. The problem being, that the loan is (and will continue) to accrue interest at an extortionate rate - currently, it would cost about £4,000 to pay off the loan - the loan amount is what it was originally, as payments have been missed. If it were paid off over the next three years (or longer), the total of the repayments would be significantly higher than the £4,000 that might be paid now - especially as quite a few payments have been missed.
Although it would be (very) 'painful' to pay off the lot in full, it would clear the debt and hopefully, we (and our son) would be able to put the matter behind us - better than paying off the loan on a monthly basis for the next few years.
Now we are getting to the part where I'd really appreciate your help - if we pay off the loan in full, that will be the matter 'done & dusted'. However, it rather 'narks' me, that his 'friend' will get off, having made only one payment - and his credit history will be unaffected.
Is there any form of action that we (my son) could take against the smug little b@st@rd ? . . . realistically, it'll have to be some form of legal action .
The impression I have (which may well be wrong), is that under Scottish Law, the (Guarantor - my son) who discharges the liability (by paying off the loan), is be entitled to assignment of all securities held by the creditor. Assuming, that is, that they have any assets. That said, we've heard that the scumbag is now living in Wales - so if we were to go after him, which legal body might we use ?
Might there be on scope for action via MoneyClaim (or the Scottish equivalent) ?
Or is the only option, a voodoo doll and a few long pins . . . or is there something else ?
James_B said:
elanfan said:
Ouch!
Though you could perhaps give him some advice on crop rotation or artificial inseminating cows?
Not likely, I’m not really a farmer. I am, though, relatively expert in the details of financial contracts, what with it being a big part of my job.Though you could perhaps give him some advice on crop rotation or artificial inseminating cows?
Edited by elanfan on Wednesday 24th October 00:43
Our smarmy respondent above needs to look at the clear descriptions Amigo give without clutching at straws like that. There are plenty of legal pages giving advice on Amigo, they do not tend to pretend that the contracts are invalid.
I can see why pro boni’s his thing, I can’t see many paying for such a half-arsed opinion...
cbmotorsport said:
James_B said:
elanfan said:
Ouch!
Though you could perhaps give him some advice on crop rotation or artificial inseminating cows?
Not likely, I’m not really a farmer. I am, though, relatively expert in the details of financial contracts, what with it being a big part of my job.Though you could perhaps give him some advice on crop rotation or artificial inseminating cows?
Edited by elanfan on Wednesday 24th October 00:43
Our smarmy respondent above needs to look at the clear descriptions Amigo give without clutching at straws like that. There are plenty of legal pages giving advice on Amigo, they do not tend to pretend that the contracts are invalid.
I can see why pro boni’s his thing, I can’t see many paying for such a half-arsed opinion...
Pegscratch said:
cbmotorsport said:
James_B said:
elanfan said:
Ouch!
Though you could perhaps give him some advice on crop rotation or artificial inseminating cows?
Not likely, I’m not really a farmer. I am, though, relatively expert in the details of financial contracts, what with it being a big part of my job.Though you could perhaps give him some advice on crop rotation or artificial inseminating cows?
Edited by elanfan on Wednesday 24th October 00:43
Our smarmy respondent above needs to look at the clear descriptions Amigo give without clutching at straws like that. There are plenty of legal pages giving advice on Amigo, they do not tend to pretend that the contracts are invalid.
I can see why pro boni’s his thing, I can’t see many paying for such a half-arsed opinion...
OP, you will also get valuable help over here:
https://all-about-debt.co.uk/
They're very good at picking contracts apart, looking at the fine print.
https://all-about-debt.co.uk/
They're very good at picking contracts apart, looking at the fine print.
Just looking at the Amigo Loans website. https://www.amigoloans.co.uk/loans/why-be-a-guaran...
"Who can be Guarantor? To be a Guarantor you need to be:
"Who can be Guarantor? To be a Guarantor you need to be:
- Aged 18 to 75
- A UK homeowner, or have a very strong credit history (a homeowner is more likely to be accepted)
- Financially stable (we'll check your credit history, but it won't leave a record so will have no impact on your ability to get other products)
- Able to afford the repayments if necessary
silentbrown said:
Just looking at the Amigo Loans website. https://www.amigoloans.co.uk/loans/why-be-a-guaran...
"Who can be Guarantor? To be a Guarantor you need to be:
My first thought as well."Who can be Guarantor? To be a Guarantor you need to be:
- Aged 18 to 75
- A UK homeowner, or have a very strong credit history (a homeowner is more likely to be accepted)
- Financially stable (we'll check your credit history, but it won't leave a record so will have no impact on your ability to get other products)
- Able to afford the repayments if necessary
A 20 year old student doesn't strike me as an appropriate guarantor for a 4k loan.
paul.deitch said:
Why would you ask for this kind of advice for such a costly disaster on an internet forum rather than going to a specialist lawyer?
1. There are some specialist lawyers on here. 2. Someone may have had a similar experience and be able to offer real world advice.
3. Specialist lawyers cost a lot of money.
etc etc.
HTH.
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