One law for them?
Discussion
gone said:True enough, sad but true.
A wet behind the ears Kid in a pug 306 may have an exemption for exceeding the limit but not for dangerous driving! You, unfortunately have neither
There may be something useful in all this shenanigans over not much (only 59 drivers snapped - amazing). If the police are hassled and hassled over this stuff and then hassled some more, there may be a realisation somewhere that a few mph over the limit makes diddly squat difference to anything for anyone. Attitude may benefit, more than it already does in the wise officers out there. Difference between knowledge and wisdom, innit
gone said:
It is not necessarily safe for Police/emergency vehicles to exceed the limits. It is however necessary for them to do so to attend emergency incidents.
If it is not safe, then it must be dangerous, so why (when it happens) are they not prosecuted for dangerous driving?
If it is not safe, why are they allowed to do it on H&S grounds.
Surely only trained drivers should be allowed to break teh speed limit when on an emergency?
Y 1 CAN said:
Well call me old fashioned, but doesn't every policeman you've ever known privately admit that they regularly break the speed limit on and off duty, for the same reasons the rest of us do, except we can't pull them over and commence a prosecution. Whenever they cause a crash (accident wouldn't be an accurate description) there's usually a 'false alarm' call invented to justify the speeding / driving on the hard shoulder to avoid jams / running red lights etc. Let's face it, they catch less than 5% of burglars in the act, so where are they speeding to most of the time?
Very true, I see some truly awfull driving by arrogant police drivers quite regularly, they seem to play games with two of them doing around 70 - 80mph through town, shades on, big grin, racing to a burglary scene as Gone has said? The local bakery gets done over all the time it seems ;-)
Been sitting watching the forums for a while and resisted posting many a time as it appears that its a site for verbal cop bashing. But, this time....
Look upon the circumstances with this slant.
The police car is late for his mealbreak or his chips are getting cold, or its finishing time and he/she is late, hence the speed. 'Book him Danno, Murder 1.' (Anyone apart from me remember Hawaii 5 Oh??)
or
The traffic car (marked or unmarked, your choice) is travelling at excess speed to catch a speeder in their yamakawahonduki1200 or 5 litre Italian exotic. The speeder gets stopped and, for whatever reason, gets a bollocking instead of a booking. Discretion, anyone? If its a gatso, the discretion vanishes and everyone is a target.
If the car is a drug dealers, on a return trip to disperse death and misery around nightclubs, if the blue lights are on then the probability of the throwing of the packages from the baddies windows is high. The spotting and deciding to deal with such incidents is spontaneous and not by default on any incident recording system in a control room.
Yes, everyone is guilty of speeding sometime, but a little lateral thinking, by all concerned, may be a good thing.
Look upon the circumstances with this slant.
The police car is late for his mealbreak or his chips are getting cold, or its finishing time and he/she is late, hence the speed. 'Book him Danno, Murder 1.' (Anyone apart from me remember Hawaii 5 Oh??)
or
The traffic car (marked or unmarked, your choice) is travelling at excess speed to catch a speeder in their yamakawahonduki1200 or 5 litre Italian exotic. The speeder gets stopped and, for whatever reason, gets a bollocking instead of a booking. Discretion, anyone? If its a gatso, the discretion vanishes and everyone is a target.
If the car is a drug dealers, on a return trip to disperse death and misery around nightclubs, if the blue lights are on then the probability of the throwing of the packages from the baddies windows is high. The spotting and deciding to deal with such incidents is spontaneous and not by default on any incident recording system in a control room.
Yes, everyone is guilty of speeding sometime, but a little lateral thinking, by all concerned, may be a good thing.
This sounds great, I'd love to see a speeding Police car actually chasing some drug dealers and doing a bit of crime-busting. Maybe the war on drugs can be won after all. But think of the paperwork! I'm probably just bitter because all the women I've known to date Policemen get to hear them bragging about flashing their warrent cards to get let off speeding when stopped by their colleagues. Maybe in reality they take it on the chin and go to court, but you don't hear of many of them getting convicted, so perhaps they don't speed privately at all.
This news article is a load of crap, designed to re-ignite the arguments after the 159 mph debacle. Every single force in the UK has Police cars that set off Gatsoes. The blue lights being on or not is totally irrelevent. The majority of instances are quite justified and the force quite right in binning the tickets. I mean, be sensible, do you really think that the average PC on his own patch wouldn't know where the cameras are? And would drive through them for a laugh? No.
I'm amazed there were only 59 instances. We must have hundreds a years in my force. This is pointless stirring journalism.
I'm amazed there were only 59 instances. We must have hundreds a years in my force. This is pointless stirring journalism.
From the Telegraph.
"Cars attending emergency calls are exempt from speeding penalties and usually an officer on a 999 call radios camera monitoring staff if they pass a camera.......in each of the 59 cases, no blue light could be seen and no call was made"
If the reason for the speeding was genuine, why didn't they make the necessary call?
"Cars attending emergency calls are exempt from speeding penalties and usually an officer on a 999 call radios camera monitoring staff if they pass a camera.......in each of the 59 cases, no blue light could be seen and no call was made"
If the reason for the speeding was genuine, why didn't they make the necessary call?
I look at this slightly differently.
The Police have a job to do. There are times, I understand, when they are on a job but without blues. Fair enough. They get snapped and have to sit at a desk (perhaps with doughnut in hand?
) and fill in a form to account to the camera partnership for why they were "speeding".
During that time they are off the road and off the beat.
Sensible use of time? Not in my opinion, for what that's worth.
But to me there's a far more important issue at stake. The Police, doing their job of policing society, have to account for themselves to an unlected, unaccountable, uncontrollable and out of control camera empire - for doing their job? So the Partnerships are policing the Police? WTF?
To me, something in that stinks - and it ain't the Police exceeding speed limits and "getting away with it".
The Police have a job to do. There are times, I understand, when they are on a job but without blues. Fair enough. They get snapped and have to sit at a desk (perhaps with doughnut in hand?
) and fill in a form to account to the camera partnership for why they were "speeding". During that time they are off the road and off the beat.
Sensible use of time? Not in my opinion, for what that's worth.
But to me there's a far more important issue at stake. The Police, doing their job of policing society, have to account for themselves to an unlected, unaccountable, uncontrollable and out of control camera empire - for doing their job? So the Partnerships are policing the Police? WTF?
To me, something in that stinks - and it ain't the Police exceeding speed limits and "getting away with it".
gone said:Getting the police to attend at all would be nice!
They would complain even more if they reported a burglary in progress on their houses and the Police attended without any speed to catch them!
A local shop was ram-raided three nights ago. The commotion woke a neighbour who observed the crooks somewhat leisurely loading fags, booze and other goods into a 4X4. He dialed 999 and reported it.
15 minutes later, with the thieves still on the premises, he called again.
35 minutes later, they drove off (at the speed limit ... well, not fast anyway!).
One hour and 20 minutes after that a police car arrived. The neighbour went to meet the two officers with a description of the van, its registration and a description of the two men (which he'd tried to give to the police operator) ... and a question as to what took them so f
king long. Their response?
To ask him why he hadn't intervened himself!
Many moons ago, the Chief Super at our local nick informed me that most nights he had only one car to cover a vast area. It seems things haven't changed in that front.
Where there has been change is that the scale of things the police respond to with alacrity (or at all) has crept ever up the scale (except for speeding offences of course
) . Streaky
Ist really what angers...because we phone police to come if being burgled and no response - even when the thugs are on your property.
I remember reading a report in a local newspaper about a shopkeeper in a large town. OFFICIAL CCTV cam was outside und filmed the break in. It also swept around the area - und ist presumably protecting PC Gatso just down the road - und police turned up when the yellow peril was being attacked! 
- (well 
according to the paper 
) But there was a bit of an outcry und I think three nationals picked up on the story at the time...because the shopkeeper was burgled on a Sunday and they do not tend to watch Sunday's footage.....
But ist a sick joke... we have police unable to speed to real jobs because they end up unable to come to the burglary because they are filling in form explaining why they hit the loud pedal at bit to break up a fight in a local pub where gangs of chav yobs are throwing chairs at each other on the one hand .... und we have some chavish BiB who think it a bit of a giggle to speed "because they can" to "test a car" on the other.
Und to rub the salt in the wound - Lancs cops apparently raced to protect one of their precious scams on a Sunday night being vandalised on CCTV - but not to catch a yob - also copped on CCTV - in the act. 
Ist really not the way to woo me
but I would not mind being passenger in your car whilst they are "testing" it on the motorway That might woo me to 
I remember reading a report in a local newspaper about a shopkeeper in a large town. OFFICIAL CCTV cam was outside und filmed the break in. It also swept around the area - und ist presumably protecting PC Gatso just down the road - und police turned up when the yellow peril was being attacked!
- (well according to the paper ) But there was a bit of an outcry und I think three nationals picked up on the story at the time...because the shopkeeper was burgled on a Sunday and they do not tend to watch Sunday's footage..... But ist a sick joke... we have police unable to speed to real jobs because they end up unable to come to the burglary because they are filling in form explaining why they hit the loud pedal at bit to break up a fight in a local pub where gangs of chav yobs are throwing chairs at each other on the one hand .... und we have some chavish BiB who think it a bit of a giggle to speed "because they can" to "test a car" on the other.
Und to rub the salt in the wound - Lancs cops apparently raced to protect one of their precious scams on a Sunday night being vandalised on CCTV - but not to catch a yob - also copped on CCTV - in the act.
Ist really not the way to woo me
but I would not mind being passenger in your car whilst they are "testing" it on the motorway
That might woo me to Jewhoo said:
If it is not safe, why are they allowed to do it on H&S grounds.
Because the public expect promt attendance at emergency calls. There is a balance to find!
If the public were not concerned about getting ambulances to their sick relatives/friends or Fire engines to their burning houses/cars or Police to their burglary/assault then emergency vehicles would not have to exceed any limits. They would not have to have warning equipment attached to them except for a standard horn and it would save money and daft questions like the one I am answering
Jewhoo said:
Surely only trained drivers should be allowed to break teh speed limit when on an emergency?
No police Officer is allowed to use a Police vehicle without having to pass an authoristaion test! That might be a day check to make sure they are competent. This does not authorise response driving!
No Police Officer is allowed to attend an incident in response mode unless they have been trained!
The minimum course is 3 weeks!
Has any MOP taken a 3 week road and response course over and above their standard driver training to pass the test? I think not
. Jewhoo said:
From the Telegraph.
"Cars attending emergency calls are exempt from speeding penalties and usually an officer on a 999 call radios camera monitoring staff if they pass a camera.......in each of the 59 cases, no blue light could be seen and no call was made"
If the reason for the speeding was genuine, why didn't they make the necessary call?
I never ever call the control room to tell them I have activated a camera. Waste of time! They will send the NIP anyway!
I don't activate cameras any more! If I have to make progress with lights on or not, when I approach a camera site, I slow to the limit and drive the 100 meters at the limit then carry on. No flash, no cash
It saves time in the long run filling out forms and only loses a couple of seconds attending an incident. It would be unusual to go to a call on a route that took me past more than 3 cameras in any case
chrispy porker said:
If the force answers many thousands of emergency calls in a year, as it obviously does, 59 cases in a year where an investigation into the circumstances is necessary seems a very low number, after all, this is not much more than one a week.
In my force we attend on average 1500 to 2500 calls for help each day. Out of that approximately 800 of them will be on emergency response
streaky said:
Getting the police to attend at all would be nice!
A local shop was ram-raided three nights ago. The commotion woke a neighbour who observed the crooks somewhat leisurely loading fags, booze and other goods into a 4X4. He dialed 999 and reported it.
15 minutes later, with the thieves still on the premises, he called again.
35 minutes later, they drove off (at the speed limit ... well, not fast anyway!).
A bit of artistic licence there Streaky!
I do not know of any control room that would not dispatch a unit to this sort of incident immediately. Most custody suits empty of officers tied up with procedure when this happens. Any available unit is dispatched.
I have many years experience of being sent to this type of incidnet because of the nature of my role. I was one of the first to get dispatched. I only caught one team in action as I was about 2 minutes away when it occurred.
These incidents are usually over in less than 5 minutes! Some of them occur in less than 2 minutes! They are highly organised and have lookouts posted on the routes in to give them the nod when Police response is close and then they fly with their booty or lack of it!
I just do not believe the 35 minutes you have posted. These people would not risk being there that long
Streaky said:
One hour and 20 minutes after that a police car arrived. The neighbour went to meet the two officers with a description of the van, its registration and a description of the two men (which he'd tried to give to the police operator) ... and a question as to what took them so f
Was the person who called aware of Police tactics in relation to this type of incident?
Obvioulsy not!!!
Static points are used to observe the likely routes away from the scene and some distance from the scene. Going to the scene immediately is normally fruitless!
Streaky said:
Their response?
To ask him why he hadn't intervened himself!
Many moons ago, the Chief Super at our local nick informed me that most nights he had only one car to cover a vast area. It seems things haven't changed in that front.
Its a bit better than that now but when you have to arrest inadequates who cannot get on in their sorry relationships day after day, night after night and then deal with the ever increasing binge drinking problem in towns, is it any wonder that most of the availbale units are tied up in custody
gone said:
They would complain even more if they reported a burglary in progress on their houses and the Police attended without any speed to catch them!
Using blue lights and sirens tends to alert criminals to police presence. At night it is worse!
Sometimes the use of blue lights can actually hinder progress rather than help it!
Phoned 999 yonks ago to report a burgalry in progress. I told the operator to tell the officers attending to turn their blues off when they got close, and I would meet them, and show them where the burglars were. Quick response from plod, I told one where the front door was (block of flats), and disappeared round the back with the other BiB to give him a hand, should he have needed it. caught 'em red handed !!. The only problem, it was the householder, and his wife who had left their keys at home, and had to break the window to get in.
Embarrassed or what? especially when a couple of days later I got a letter commending my actions from the CC.
Phil
gone said:
Getting the police to attend at all would be nice!
A local shop was ram-raided three nights ago. The commotion woke a neighbour who observed the crooks somewhat leisurely loading fags, booze and other goods into a 4X4. He dialed 999 and reported it.
15 minutes later, with the thieves still on the premises, he called again.
35 minutes later, they drove off (at the speed limit ... well, not fast anyway!).
A bit of artistic licence there Streaky!
I do not know of any control room that would not dispatch a unit to this sort of incident immediately. Most custody suits empty of officers tied up with procedure when this happens. Any available unit is dispatched.
I have many years experience of being sent to this type of incidnet because of the nature of my role. I was one of the first to get dispatched. I only caught one team in action as I was about 2 minutes away when it occurred.
These incidents are usually over in less than 5 minutes! Some of them occur in less than 2 minutes! They are highly organised and have lookouts posted on the routes in to give them the nod when Police response is close and then they fly with their booty or lack of it!
I just do not believe the 35 minutes you have posted. These people would not risk being there that long
He noted the time he made his first call and his second call and the time at which the crooks departed. They were stacking the stolen articles on the pavement before loading them into the 4X4 - neatly. They cleaned out all the cigarettes, all the alcohol, all the sweets and chocolate, a large quantity of tinned goods and the top shelf magazines.
Apart from the external damage to the shop, everything inside was neat and tidy ... just bare shelves. To get from the body of the shop to the rear entrance involved a tortuous route through two internal, self-closing doors and along a short corridor (there was apparently no sign that the doors had been propped open).
Given the description of the relaxed nature of their activities, I can easily imagine that it took as long as 35+ minutes (BTW - I erred in my second "later", that should have read, "35 minutes after he was awakened" ... mea culpa). Perhaps the crooks were amateurs ... or perhaps they had a bl00dy good idea that the area car was stuck on the far side of the county ... a goodly drive away (but closer at 159mph, of course).
gone said:Since no-one appears to have informed him, I imagine that he was (and still is) ignorant of the tactics. Should he have been aware? Where would he find this out? Is it posted on a notice-board at the police station, or on the constabulary website? Were the police aware of the tactics the householder employs at his work?
One hour and 20 minutes after that a police car arrived. The neighbour went to meet the two officers with a description of the van, its registration and a description of the two men (which he'd tried to give to the police operator) ... and a question as to what took them so f
Obvioulsy not!!!
I suggest this ranks as one of the more stupid things you have ever posted gone!
Streaky
>> Edited by streaky on Saturday 28th May 20:57
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