Local road, sudden "Private Road No Access" signs appeared

[Sloan85]

Check roadworks.org, click operational info, NSG and then click the road. It’ll tell you what the status is.

[Swervin_Mervin]

ElectricSoup said:

Thanks Mervin. Awesome reply, however I'm still confused. You say your local example, Hawthorn Park, is a private road but also public highway? Does that mean the No Access sign is wrong?

Here's a photo of the sign I just took. If the road has been used by the public, unencumbered for decades, surely it can't be marked No Access?

I think it's simply an attempt at a toothless threat tbh.

[Aluminati]

I would of thought there would have been a need for some sort of planning app to do this ? Might be a record of it ?

[Evanivitch]

ElectricSoup said:

Thanks Mervin. Awesome reply, however I'm still confused. You say your local example, Hawthorn Park, is a private road but also public highway? Does that mean the No Access sign is wrong?

Here's a photo of the sign I just took. If the road has been used by the public, unencumbered for decades, surely it can't be marked No Access?

You can have public byway across private property.

[mybrainhurts]

ElectricSoup said:

And what the hell is Borsetshire?

It's the shire from which all true Borsets hail...

Everybody knows that.

[ElectricSoup]

Well I've emailed the caaaaaaaahncil, let's see what they say.

[ElectricSoup]

Swervin_Mervin said:

ElectricSoup said:

Thanks, but I'm in Reading, not West Berkshire. There's no link for Reading Borough. I had a ferret in the Oxfordshire link as my bit of Reading used to be in Oxfordshire, but all the current Reading area was greyed out. So I suppose our People's Republic Council aren't too keen on the People knowing anything. Berkshire was abolished about 20 years ago in favour of unitary Councils.

Ah, The Archers is it? Jolly good. Never listened to anything more than the theme tune as I lunge for the off switch...

Reading is a Unitary Authority so responsible for their own PROWs and Highways. I've just had a quick look though and it seems there's nothing on their site. You'd have to make an enquiry on that basis, either as to the status of the road in question, or make an appointment to go and view the Definitive Map

If it's been demonstrably open to the public for a very long time then it sounds like someone is trying to fence it off to fend off any claims. Certainly looks like it should be public highway, but I could well imagine it not being adopted. ETA - here's an FOI request from 2014, and if you look in the list of private roads it seems to be listed. https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/highways_ma...

As an aside, there's nothing wrong with them identifying a route as private - but they can't block it off if it's public highway. There's one near here:

https://goo.gl/maps/hF9u6jnWxdQGztaN6

Edited by Swervin_Mervin on Thursday 29th August 16:04

Edited by Swervin_Mervin on Thursday 29th August 16:05

Just going back to this one from Mervin for a moment, the list of private roads shows there's an Ayrton Senna Road in Tilehurst. Well I never.

Also, this road is listed a private, with absolutely no signage or the like, and is used quite freely by traffic at al times, and has council street lighting and all that jazz:

https://goo.gl/maps/ngzXum3cErN1dceQ8

Is this an absolute can of worms?

[Wooda80]

I'd always wondered what the significance was.

I asked someone who lived here why their road was so badly surfaced. She said they do actually pay their Council Tax but it's a private road, even though there are apparently no signs or attempt to limit access. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4167625,-2.2416539...


As is this one nearby
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4202659,-2.2292572...
Raynham Avenue has small signs at the entrance but I'm not sure what the significance is, at least their road gets resurfaced!

[ElectricSoup]

Swervin_Mervin said:

I think it's simply an attempt at a toothless threat tbh.

I hope so. I expect a puce faced retired Major will come barrelling out of his front door the next time I drive down there.

Walked down it and back this weekend with the dog, didn't get challenged.

[ElectricPics]

ElectricSoup said:

Just going back to this one from Mervin for a moment, the list of private roads shows there's an Ayrton Senna Road in Tilehurst. Well I never.

Also, this road is listed a private, with absolutely no signage or the like, and is used quite freely by traffic at al times, and has council street lighting and all that jazz:

https://goo.gl/maps/ngzXum3cErN1dceQ8

Is this an absolute can of worms?

I would say the inclusion of that road on a list of private roads is simply an error - it's obviously an adopted highway.

[Swervin_Mervin]

ElectricPics said:

ElectricSoup said:

Just going back to this one from Mervin for a moment, the list of private roads shows there's an Ayrton Senna Road in Tilehurst. Well I never.

Also, this road is listed a private, with absolutely no signage or the like, and is used quite freely by traffic at al times, and has council street lighting and all that jazz:

https://goo.gl/maps/ngzXum3cErN1dceQ8

Is this an absolute can of worms?

I would say the inclusion of that road on a list of private roads is simply an error - it's obviously an adopted highway.

How so? You do find the occasional fairly high standard unadopted highway

[Swervin_Mervin]

ElectricSoup said:

Swervin_Mervin said:

I think it's simply an attempt at a toothless threat tbh.

I hope so. I expect a puce faced retired Major will come barrelling out of his front door the next time I drive down there.

Walked down it and back this weekend with the dog, didn't get challenged.

No one'll bother I suspect. Same for the one I linked up here. It will likely be to discourage people from driving through if they're not accessing any property - you can understand why given maintenance liability will fall to the owners and/or frontagers.

The only thing I ever saw on the one I linked, was one of the old sods that lived there used to blow all the leaves off his property into the private road, and then down the private road and into the highway, the c**t.

Edited by Swervin_Mervin on Monday 2nd September 16:36

[drmike37]

I live on a private road. The land registry clearly shows I own half of it, the farmer owns the other side. It is a public footpath so people can walk up to their hearts’ content. You could expect me to get upset with you if you effectively drive your car over my garden.
Police might also care about driving a motor vehicle on a footpath....
If the land belongs to someone, why do you think you have the right to drive over it in the absence of a posted right of way?

[NewUsername]

drmike37 said:

If the land belongs to someone, why do you think you have the right to drive over it in the absence of a posted right of way?

Because he may well have the right to ........

[Cyrus1971]

I don't think adopted or un-adopted is a part of the OP question.

It is however about land ownership status. Often such "roads" as you perceive them to be are actually long shared roads or more likely drives to multiple properties but with 2 entrances. So from the non-home owners perspective they are a link road to use. The individual property deeds of properties or fields off of that road or drive will have a common easement clause (right to use) and a common shared payment clause for maintenance (usually split among the properties) and a common rights clause (mineral, sewerage, services etc) for that road or drive.

So if you or others use it does not diminish the claim by the shared owners that it is indeed private. So it may not have a sign saying "private" for 50 years, come to be use by locals, and then have a sign lawfully erected when they choose to as a community of owners declare their property rights over it. Simply using someone else's land for your own purpose does not of itself entitle you to claim that it's status has changed or indeed that you have any rights over it. No more so that sun bathing in someone else's back garden entitles you to claim you have rights in their garden. So it remains theirs and not yours or indeed the councils either.

Adoption is an other entirely different and somewhat murky land law process.

At least that is what I think from land law lectures from 20 years ago !

[The Mad Monk]

ElectricSoup said:

A road local to my house, which I have been using as a pedestrian, cyclist and car driver for over 10 years now, has suddenly sprouted "Private Road - No Access" signs at both ends.

How else can it be done, apart from "Suddenly"?

The signs are either up, or down.

You can't "Gradually" put a sign up, can you?

[hidetheelephants]

Cyrus1971 said:

So if you or others use it does not diminish the claim by the shared owners that it is indeed private. So it may not have a sign saying "private" for 50 years, come to be use by locals, and then have a sign lawfully erected when they choose to as a community of owners declare their property rights over it. Simply using someone else's land for your own purpose does not of itself entitle you to claim that it's status has changed or indeed that you have any rights over it. No more so that sun bathing in someone else's back garden entitles you to claim you have rights in their garden. So it remains theirs and not yours or indeed the councils either.

Adoption is an other entirely different and somewhat murky land law process.

At least that is what I think from land law lectures from 20 years ago !

If it has been in common use as a right of way that can't be overturned by erecting a sign or putting up gates. The landowner needs to satisfy the council's RoW mandarin that it's not and that's pretty hard.

[Sporky]

The Mad Monk said:

How else can it be done, apart from "Suddenly"?

The signs are either up, or down.

You can't "Gradually" put a sign up, can you?

One letter at a time?

[ElectricSoup]

Interesting, and swift, reply from the council (apologies for grammatical errors, they are not mine):

"this is indeed not public highway and though residents may of funded this them selves these are non enforceable, I will look to see if they have been installed on Reading Borough Council public highway .

If indeed this is the case they will be removed, however if they are within the boundary of Boundary Lane then there may be nothing we can do as they are responsible for this road.

I will double check they are within there rights to install such name plates and will get back to you as soon as I have more information. However there may still be access rights to this road, we are looking into this and will be in contact as soon as we have an answer."

And for the benefit of those defenders of private land, this is exactly why I'm asking the question. I have used the road for 10 years without any question that it wasn't a right of way, as it is has never been signed as private, nor restricted. I'm asking the question because I want to know if I am entitled to continue to use it, and if I'm not I shall desist.

Thanks also to the poster above with the point about easements for surrounding properties. My house is very close to this lane and was built on land which was part of the same private estate before it was developed. There may well be an easement in my property deeds entitling me to use the road in some capacity, I shall look in to that also. And if that's the case I'll write to residents on that road and offer to contribute financially to maintenance if and when required.

[The Mad Monk]

Sporky said:

The Mad Monk said:

How else can it be done, apart from "Suddenly"?

The signs are either up, or down.

You can't "Gradually" put a sign up, can you?

One letter at a time?

Well, I suppose you could get Network Rail to erect the sign. That would make sure that it wasn't done suddenly - or quickly.