Amber to Red light - lorry.
Discussion
TVR1 said:
So no dramas then. You’d already crossed the stop line. OP don’t stress yourself. You did the correct thing, especially if you knew there was a car behind you.
And BTW, you wouldn’t have caused an accident, if it happened....the driver behind would’ve.
Sounds like a sensible piece of driving from you.
Do you know how many reds I’ve jumped, with my pupils? Or received a NIP? 0
Do you know how many accidents I’ve had at Trafficlights ‘Cos pupils slammed on the brakes? 0
Do you know how many times I’ve said ‘keep going’ as the pupils foot moves to hit the brakes 1 car length from amber? And I’ve seen the 40 ton articulated lorry 1 metre behind us?
10,000
It’s fun, being a driving instructor!
Well done. Good driving
I just seen this comment, I wouldn't have the patience to be a driving instructor so good on you mate haha, as my driving instructor also told me when I was doing my HGV, once you hit your point of no return like I did today its safer to proceed through amber and clear the junction rather than slam on the breaks and that's what I go by.And BTW, you wouldn’t have caused an accident, if it happened....the driver behind would’ve.
Sounds like a sensible piece of driving from you.
Do you know how many reds I’ve jumped, with my pupils? Or received a NIP? 0
Do you know how many accidents I’ve had at Trafficlights ‘Cos pupils slammed on the brakes? 0
Do you know how many times I’ve said ‘keep going’ as the pupils foot moves to hit the brakes 1 car length from amber? And I’ve seen the 40 ton articulated lorry 1 metre behind us?
10,000
It’s fun, being a driving instructor!
Well done. Good driving
Edited by TVR1 on Thursday 3rd September 18:23
TVR1 said:
He wasn’t trying to beat the lights. They changed from green to amber within a vehicles length.
Don’t try to read into something that isn’t there.
I didn't say he was. I merely listed out a bunch of factors that a copper would likely consider if one were to have seen the incident described. Don’t try to read into something that isn’t there.
Take your own advice?
Baaaartz said:
Hi I know the title might be a bit misleading I just have a question since I havent really looked into it as usually I'm a very sensible driver, however this morning around 7am I started my shift driving my dustcart and as we was approaching a junction the lights was green, about literally a metre away from the stop line the lights have turned to amber and I'm pretty sure my back wheels of the lorry crossed the white stop line at red as they changed quiet quickly, we obviously proceeded through the intersection before any other traffic moved off from the other side, I'm just curious how would the law enforcement look at this kind of situation, would they issue a nip for something so stupid?
To my defence it would be hard stopping in a car when your literally right next to the line, let alone a whole lorry with couple tonnes in the back, so I'm quiete not sure what to think of this one, has anyone had a similar incident?
Forget about it. Your back wheels dont matter.To my defence it would be hard stopping in a car when your literally right next to the line, let alone a whole lorry with couple tonnes in the back, so I'm quiete not sure what to think of this one, has anyone had a similar incident?
GC8 said:
Baaaartz said:
Hi I know the title might be a bit misleading I just have a question since I havent really looked into it as usually I'm a very sensible driver, however this morning around 7am I started my shift driving my dustcart and as we was approaching a junction the lights was green, about literally a metre away from the stop line the lights have turned to amber and I'm pretty sure my back wheels of the lorry crossed the white stop line at red as they changed quiet quickly, we obviously proceeded through the intersection before any other traffic moved off from the other side, I'm just curious how would the law enforcement look at this kind of situation, would they issue a nip for something so stupid?
To my defence it would be hard stopping in a car when your literally right next to the line, let alone a whole lorry with couple tonnes in the back, so I'm quiete not sure what to think of this one, has anyone had a similar incident?
Forget about it. Your back wheels dont matter.To my defence it would be hard stopping in a car when your literally right next to the line, let alone a whole lorry with couple tonnes in the back, so I'm quiete not sure what to think of this one, has anyone had a similar incident?
I used to work in a particular department for a police force that sounds like the ice cream Neopolitan.
There may or may not have been unofficial extra tolerance when it came to HGV's or LGV's activating red light cameras due to the weight of the vehicle and stopping distances.
Also there may or may not have been tolerance for a funeral cortege.
There may or may not have been unofficial extra tolerance when it came to HGV's or LGV's activating red light cameras due to the weight of the vehicle and stopping distances.
Also there may or may not have been tolerance for a funeral cortege.
SS2. said:
GC8 said:
What a typically forum reply.
It is correct, though - the offence is committed if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line with the red light showing.SS2. said:
GC8 said:
What a typically forum reply.
It is correct, though - the offence is committed if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line with the red light showing.SS2. said:
GC8 said:
What a typically forum reply.
It is correct, though - the offence is committed if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line with the red light showing.That’s not what happened to the OP. He passed the amber as unsafe to stop and must continue through the junction. It’s then irrelevant if the light goes red before his vehicle has fully cleared the stop line.
TVR1 said:
SS2. said:
GC8 said:
What a typically forum reply.
It is correct, though - the offence is committed if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line with the red light showing.That’s not what happened to the OP. He passed the amber as unsafe to stop and must continue through the junction. It’s then irrelevant if the light goes red before his vehicle has fully cleared the stop line.
The unsafe to stop only applies to the amber light, not a red.
vonhosen said:
TVR1 said:
SS2. said:
GC8 said:
What a typically forum reply.
It is correct, though - the offence is committed if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line with the red light showing.That’s not what happened to the OP. He passed the amber as unsafe to stop and must continue through the junction. It’s then irrelevant if the light goes red before his vehicle has fully cleared the stop line.
The unsafe to stop only applies to the amber light, not a red.
TVR1 said:
vonhosen said:
TVR1 said:
SS2. said:
GC8 said:
What a typically forum reply.
It is correct, though - the offence is committed if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line with the red light showing.That’s not what happened to the OP. He passed the amber as unsafe to stop and must continue through the junction. It’s then irrelevant if the light goes red before his vehicle has fully cleared the stop line.
The unsafe to stop only applies to the amber light, not a red.
It's not an irrelevance as you stated.
If it's amber & it's unsafe to stop you can proceed over the stop line, but if you haven't cleared the line before it goes red you commit the red light offence of crossing the line against red.
Whether you get prosecuted or not is a different consideration, but the offence is complete.
vonhosen said:
TVR1 said:
vonhosen said:
TVR1 said:
SS2. said:
GC8 said:
What a typically forum reply.
It is correct, though - the offence is committed if any part of the vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line with the red light showing.That’s not what happened to the OP. He passed the amber as unsafe to stop and must continue through the junction. It’s then irrelevant if the light goes red before his vehicle has fully cleared the stop line.
The unsafe to stop only applies to the amber light, not a red.
It's not an irrelevance as you stated.
If it's amber & it's unsafe to stop you can proceed over the stop line, but if you haven't cleared the line before it goes red you commit the red light offence of crossing the line against red.
Whether you get prosecuted or not is a different consideration, but the offence is complete.
The any part of a vehicle bit applies if the red was on before passing the stop line, even if you manage to stop before all of the vehicle has passed. Not if you’ve passed on amber.
The critical words are ‘showing BEFORE passing’.
It’s a very subtle difference, for sure. However, the wording (simplified) is ‘if any part of the vehicle passes the stop line, whilst red light is showing(even if the vehicle stops) an offence is committed.
The RTA is clear, proceed on Amber if unsafe etc. No offence committed.
It doesn’t say, because it doesn’t need to (as has already told us to proceed if unsafe)...
‘you may proceed on Amber but if the whole vehicle has not cleared the stop line before changing to red, an offence is committed. A defence would be to show that it was unsafe to stop’
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 14:46
TVR1 said:
The any part of a vehicle bit applies if the red was on before passing the stop line, even if you manage to stop before all of the vehicle has passed. Not if you’ve passed on amber.
No, it doesn't.If any part of a vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line when the red light is showing, the offence is complete. It matters not a jot what colour the lights were when the front of the vehicle passed the stop line.
SS2. said:
TVR1 said:
The any part of a vehicle bit applies if the red was on before passing the stop line, even if you manage to stop before all of the vehicle has passed. Not if you’ve passed on amber.
No, it doesn't.If any part of a vehicle proceeds beyond the stop line when the red light is showing, the offence is complete. It matters not a jot what colour the lights were when the front of the vehicle passed the stop line.
It’s ‘SHOWING’
The red wasn’t showing. It was Amber.
That the lights changed afterwards, so not showing ‘at that time’ is the important bit.
It’s the point that the vehicle crossed the stop line that’s important, and the lights AT THAT TIME, not what subsequently happened.
It’s an offence of passing on Red. Not on passing Amber AND THEN the lights change to red.
Find anything thing, anywhere that states it’s an offence to pass an Amber light (under these circumstances) and then it’s an offence if the lights change before the rest of the vehicle has passed the stop line.
Try. Go on.
You won’t find it.
Because it’s not there.
Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 19:08
TVR1 said:
So you’ve just confirmed what I said!
It’s ‘SHOWING’
The red wasn’t showing. It was Amber.
That the lights changed afterwards, so not showing ‘at that time’ is the important bit.
It’s the point that the vehicle crossed the stop light that’s important, not what subsequently happened.
It’s an offence of passing on Red. Not on passing Amber AND THEN the lights change to red.
Find anything thing, anywhere that states it’s an offence to pass an Amber light (under these circumstances) and then it’s an offence if the lights change before the rest of the vehicle has passed the stop line.
Try. Go on.
You won’t find it.
Because it’s not there.
Sorry, but you're wrong.It’s ‘SHOWING’
The red wasn’t showing. It was Amber.
That the lights changed afterwards, so not showing ‘at that time’ is the important bit.
It’s the point that the vehicle crossed the stop light that’s important, not what subsequently happened.
It’s an offence of passing on Red. Not on passing Amber AND THEN the lights change to red.
Find anything thing, anywhere that states it’s an offence to pass an Amber light (under these circumstances) and then it’s an offence if the lights change before the rest of the vehicle has passed the stop line.
Try. Go on.
You won’t find it.
Because it’s not there.
Do you not understand the phrase 'any part of a vehicle' ?
SS2. said:
TVR1 said:
So you’ve just confirmed what I said!
It’s ‘SHOWING’
The red wasn’t showing. It was Amber.
That the lights changed afterwards, so not showing ‘at that time’ is the important bit.
It’s the point that the vehicle crossed the stop light that’s important, not what subsequently happened.
It’s an offence of passing on Red. Not on passing Amber AND THEN the lights change to red.
Find anything thing, anywhere that states it’s an offence to pass an Amber light (under these circumstances) and then it’s an offence if the lights change before the rest of the vehicle has passed the stop line.
Try. Go on.
You won’t find it.
Because it’s not there.
Sorry, but you're wrong.It’s ‘SHOWING’
The red wasn’t showing. It was Amber.
That the lights changed afterwards, so not showing ‘at that time’ is the important bit.
It’s the point that the vehicle crossed the stop light that’s important, not what subsequently happened.
It’s an offence of passing on Red. Not on passing Amber AND THEN the lights change to red.
Find anything thing, anywhere that states it’s an offence to pass an Amber light (under these circumstances) and then it’s an offence if the lights change before the rest of the vehicle has passed the stop line.
Try. Go on.
You won’t find it.
Because it’s not there.
Please show me any RTA or Highway Code that says it’s an offence to pass on Amber and then, unless your vehicle has fully passed the stop line before the lights change to red, you’ve committed an offence of proceeding on a red light.
Go on!
I’ve all night.
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