Undertaking on the motorway.
Discussion
If you're going to run red lights (a different order of magnitude of risk) then the faster you do it the better, the less time you spend in the path of oncoming traffic the better.
How much time do you need to react? As I pass someone on the nearside, I'm watching them very carefully for any signs of being about to move into my lane, if they do start to move over I could move to the empty hard shoulder almost instantaneously in an emergency, if it weren't empty I wouldn't be undertaking.
How much time do you need to react? As I pass someone on the nearside, I'm watching them very carefully for any signs of being about to move into my lane, if they do start to move over I could move to the empty hard shoulder almost instantaneously in an emergency, if it weren't empty I wouldn't be undertaking.
FiF,
Just re-read your original post. I was thinking of the slightly different situation when on an almost empty motorway you are doing 85ish in the nearside lane and the only car in sight is doing 70 in the middle lane.
Here the choice is move across two lanes, pass and then move back two lanes, or simply carry on in the nearside lane. I usually favour the latter approach.
Just re-read your original post. I was thinking of the slightly different situation when on an almost empty motorway you are doing 85ish in the nearside lane and the only car in sight is doing 70 in the middle lane.
Here the choice is move across two lanes, pass and then move back two lanes, or simply carry on in the nearside lane. I usually favour the latter approach.
One of the most annoying habits on the roads - absolutley hate undertakers!
Russell your spot on, if I was stood in a queue in a shop and someone pushed in front, I'd drag them out and force them to wait at the back, why is it they seem ammune from this when in a car? do they feel like some superhero inside a case of metal?
If motorway empty bar one numpty in middle lane, I'll move right into middle - close in on them then overtake them, once passed move back to the 1st lane, beeping as I pas them(why do they do it???)
I have found that the further south you go, the more 'acceptable' and common undertaking seems.
Russell your spot on, if I was stood in a queue in a shop and someone pushed in front, I'd drag them out and force them to wait at the back, why is it they seem ammune from this when in a car? do they feel like some superhero inside a case of metal?
If motorway empty bar one numpty in middle lane, I'll move right into middle - close in on them then overtake them, once passed move back to the 1st lane, beeping as I pas them(why do they do it???)
I have found that the further south you go, the more 'acceptable' and common undertaking seems.
soir said:
One of the most annoying habits on the roads - absolutley hate undertakers!
Russell your spot on, if I was stood in a queue in a shop and someone pushed in front, I'd drag them out and force them to wait at the back, why is it they seem ammune from this when in a car? do they feel like some superhero inside a case of metal?
If motorway empty bar one numpty in middle lane, I'll move right into middle - close in on them then overtake them, once passed move back to the 1st lane, beeping as I pas them(why do they do it???)
I have found that the further south you go, the more 'acceptable' and common undertaking seems.
Should we all queue up in lane 3 then and ignore the other two lanes? After all I want to go faster than the 50mph the vehicles in lane 3 are doing. If I join in behind them we might as well not have the motorway and just have A roads. Until the mojority of drivers use the lanes properly by keeping left then the system is broken and you may as well make the smoothest progress you can. I certainly dont advocate wildly changing lanes to undertake. But if the lane i'm in is clear i'll stay in it.
Flat in Fifth said:
Then you have the others who drift past, taking the line of least resistance and keeping the differential speed very low. When it comes to the time to merge right, the good ones do not shoulder their way out but wait for a half decent space. These I think are 100% OK, but that is just my view.
This tends to be my approach - largely because the lower position in the FD makes visibility past whatever's in front of me quite poor. I'd rather drive in lanes 1 and 2 with decent visibility then lane 3 and not have a good view of and potential hazards ahead.
V8 Archie said:
One of the most annoying habits on the roads - absolutley hate undertakers!
If I have the time and space to undertake someone it is a sure signal that they are in the wrong lane. As such they should sort out their own driving deficiencies before having a go at me for mine.
gasman, the point I'm trying to make is that I highlighted two types of behaviour, possibly each towards opposite ends of the spectrum.
How many times do people on the interweb get into screaming matches because we don't have that very important method of communication body language, facial expressions. Then when the screaming stops very often the positions are different only on a very small issue and there is a lot in common.
What I described were two situations where the automotive equivalent "body language" is very different. One results in a "bar steward is trying to push in." The other might get the same but distinctly more chance of being given the space to slide out to the right after a speculative indicate. Each to his own.
Obviously you don't creep past at a steady +0.01 mph, but vary your speed slightly so that you are in the blind spot and danger zone alongside and just behind in a relatively short but reasonable time. You have to give the MLOM time to react.
Re your MLOM @ 70 and you blatt past at undiminished 85 in lane 2. (Or even MLOM @ 55 and you past in lane 1 at 70 to keep the speed element out.)
I don't expect you to agree, but on a quiet motorway where there is possibility to go Lane 1>2>3>2>1, then I think just blatting past in lane 1 is being idle, asking for trouble and not setting a very good example.
FiF
Edited to correct carp speeling.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Thursday 30th June 18:38
How many times do people on the interweb get into screaming matches because we don't have that very important method of communication body language, facial expressions. Then when the screaming stops very often the positions are different only on a very small issue and there is a lot in common.
What I described were two situations where the automotive equivalent "body language" is very different. One results in a "bar steward is trying to push in." The other might get the same but distinctly more chance of being given the space to slide out to the right after a speculative indicate. Each to his own.
Obviously you don't creep past at a steady +0.01 mph, but vary your speed slightly so that you are in the blind spot and danger zone alongside and just behind in a relatively short but reasonable time. You have to give the MLOM time to react.
Re your MLOM @ 70 and you blatt past at undiminished 85 in lane 2. (Or even MLOM @ 55 and you past in lane 1 at 70 to keep the speed element out.)
I don't expect you to agree, but on a quiet motorway where there is possibility to go Lane 1>2>3>2>1, then I think just blatting past in lane 1 is being idle, asking for trouble and not setting a very good example.
FiF
Edited to correct carp speeling.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Thursday 30th June 18:38
richardthestag said:
soir said:
One of the most annoying habits on the roads - absolutley hate undertakers!
If I have the time and space to undertake someone it is a sure signal that they are in the wrong lane. As such they should sort out their own driving deficiencies before having a go at me for mine.
Seconded. If you can be undertaken, think about where you should be positioned on the road. It's very likely you should also be over to the left somewhere. (Of course, there are times when you are behind someone who is taking too long to overtake, in which case there may be a bit of a clear lane on the inside, but in this scenario there would be no need for anyone to undertake). I don't get undertaken, because I take care to place myself to the left unless I'm overtaking.)
gasman said:
If you are passing on the inside it's contrary to the highway code (probably), so the person being passed is not expecting you to be there.
Actually, it is perfectly legal as long as you are not breaking the speed limit. so you can undertake on the motorway if the traffic in the lane outside of you is travelling at less than 70mph.
soir said:I would have agreed with the top comment before I moved South, but as you point out, it happens more down here. In my experience that is because there are more 2nd/3rd lane hoggers down here, and there is that much space on the inside 2 lanes that you would be stupid not to undertake. My favourite motorway is actually the M40, because generally people have better lane discipline than the others I travel on (M25, M1, M5, M6). I have never worked out why though!
One of the most annoying habits on the roads - absolutley hate undertakers!
If motorway empty bar one numpty in middle lane, I'll move right into middle - close in on them then overtake them, once passed move back to the 1st lane, beeping as I pas them(why do they do it???)
I have found that the further south you go, the more 'acceptable' and common undertaking seems.
Also, with reference to Waking up a driver daydreaming in the middle lane. How many of you have flashed them, they have moved left, you pass and move to the left, and then they move right and sit on their own in the middle lane again?!!!! (I did post this in another thread somewhere)
I beg to differ - the Highway Code says, "242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."
Now that isn't a legal requirement but contravening the Highway Code can be used as evidence to back up a dangerous driving charge, for instance. Even if you weren't charged you could definitely be stopped for it. So it's hardly perfectly legal if you could end up discussing the matter with a policeman on the hard shoulder!
>> Edited by SJobson on Thursday 30th June 20:54
Now that isn't a legal requirement but contravening the Highway Code can be used as evidence to back up a dangerous driving charge, for instance. Even if you weren't charged you could definitely be stopped for it. So it's hardly perfectly legal if you could end up discussing the matter with a policeman on the hard shoulder!
>> Edited by SJobson on Thursday 30th June 20:54
old fogey said:
In general though I find people in lane 3 will move over for me quite readily if there is room in lane 2, so I usually go past relatively unhindered. It's not often I get stuck for long behind a lane hogger, I seem to be quite lucky like that.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
.. that's because YOU'RE the 3rd lane hogger we're all stuck behind.GET OUT OF LANE THREE
I very much doubt it. Best wishes all,
Dave.
FiF, I agree it's a bit lazy and the correct thing to do is obviously to overtake properly in lane 3, but the alternative, that I've seen many times, of pulling sharply across into lane 3 passing and then pulling sharply back into lane 1 to "make the point that they're in the wrong lane" I think is much worse than what I do.
SJobson said:
I beg to differ - the Highway Code says, "242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake."
Now that isn't a legal requirement but contravening the Highway Code can be used as evidence to back up a dangerous driving charge, for instance. Even if you weren't charged you could definitely be stopped for it. So it's hardly perfectly legal if you could end up discussing the matter with a policeman on the hard shoulder!
>> Edited by SJobson on Thursday 30th June 20:54
You are right in what you say, but I was not talking about moving left to undertake, but purely staying in the empty lane (where I should be), and going past the cars in the right hand lane that are going more slowly. Yes, if you weave about it is not legal, but staying in (the correct) empty lane and undertaking is legal providing that you are not speeding. Verified by this part of your post: where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right.
It doesn't just say don't move left, it says don't overtake on the left first. If there's only a queue in the right hand lane then (playing devil's advocate) it would be quite arguable that conditions aren't congested.
Of course, as I posted on the first page, I do undertake myself in exactly the situation you describe. I quite like having a discussion about interpretation
But it's not clear cut that it's permitted.
Of course, as I posted on the first page, I do undertake myself in exactly the situation you describe. I quite like having a discussion about interpretation
But it's not clear cut that it's permitted.I think the police should be on a bridge with a bazooka to blow to bits any t
t hogging the outside lanes when there is nothing in them. These type of idiots seem not to be aware of what county there are in let alone what lane there in. I suggest we undertake them safely at a reasonable speed and merge back out into a reasonable space. If this is done in this manner even they don't realise its happened to them.
P.S
I am new to this site and it very good.
t hogging the outside lanes when there is nothing in them. These type of idiots seem not to be aware of what county there are in let alone what lane there in. I suggest we undertake them safely at a reasonable speed and merge back out into a reasonable space. If this is done in this manner even they don't realise its happened to them. P.S
I am new to this site and it very good.
If there is more than one car in a lane then that is a queue. The Highway Code even asks you to move to the left lane once your overtake is complete so if there is room for you to move left you should. If it so happens the lane then ahead is clear then keep on driving.
If you want to be really pedantic and to use the cash machine analogy of earlier then even one car in a lane is a queue as you would not step in front of the one person waiting to withdraw cash would you.
If you want to be really pedantic and to use the cash machine analogy of earlier then even one car in a lane is a queue as you would not step in front of the one person waiting to withdraw cash would you.
SJobson said:
It doesn't just say don't move left, it says don't overtake on the left first. If there's only a queue in the right hand lane then (playing devil's advocate) it would be quite arguable that conditions aren't congested.
Of course, as I posted on the first page, I do undertake myself in exactly the situation you describe. I quite like having a discussion about interpretation
Although if everyone in the 3rd lane is following in a long snake, is it possible that that lane is congested?!
Not many things are clear cut on the roads (apart from "Speed Kills", apparently ), but I do not think you would find many Traffic cops pulling you for undertaking cars at 70mph (provided that you were not weaving about and cutting people up). Personally, I think there should be some time limit on hogging the wrong lane (say, 30secs without moving over is a £30 fine?). It would make people think about what they are doing, and then I could stop worrying about having to undertake them.
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