Crash with blue light running police car

[edthefed]

10 years since i left West Yorks Police but at that time the procedure was

Sergeant attends scene and submits Police Accident report,same day

That included notifying HQ accident section who will then liaise with the other parties insurance

Statements taken from witnesses

Nowadays the police vehicle "black box" will need to be downloaded and checked, body worn camera footage (if any) checked, CCTV checked etc and a decision made on what action to take

Having dealt with many Polaccs in my 22 years a Sergeant i never had any complaints that the accident section were being unhelpful to insurance companies,

[sospan]

I was a civvy in our force. I was due to travel to a meeting using an unmarked force car (pool car). Before it happened I had to be assessed for my driving by an instructor. I passed but in the end didn’t need to attend the meeting. The “test” included me doing a running narrative describing what I was seeing, doing, planning.
A good refresher!

[QBee]

saknog said:

Just looking at it from different angles and not apportioning any blame but did the police car have its siren on, did you wife hear a siren or not?
Should drivers proceed with caution when hearing a siren until the location of the vehicle with the siren on is identified?
I have seen many times driver’s pull out in front of emergency vehicles, even though a siren can be heard long before the vehicle has appeared

Nearly 10% of the adult public is deaf or very hearing impaired.
Surely the Police training around slowing for red lights is because it has to allow for the other driver not being able to hear the siren, and in this situation not able to see blue lights around blind corner in daylight.
If this had been my wife not Gazza's, the above would have been the case - she is profoundly deaf, but her licence is not restricted in any way by the DVLA.
With her cochlear implant she can sometimes hear the police siren, but she only has one implant, hence no stereo sound, so never has a clue where the sound is coming from.
And on a long journey she tends to turn her implant off anyway, which is her legal right and for her safer, because she finds dealing with background noise both distracting and tiring.
So far, in nearly 40 years driving, she has never collided with an emergency vehicle on a shout.

[gazza285]

saknog said:

Just looking at it from different angles and not apportioning any blame but did the police car have its siren on, did you wife hear a siren or not?
Should drivers proceed with caution when hearing a siren until the location of the vehicle with the siren on is identified?
I have seen many times driver’s pull out in front of emergency vehicles, even though a siren can be heard long before the vehicle has appeared

My wife did not hear the siren.

As for the comment about not proceeding unless you can see the way is clear, there is no way to see if the way is clear from the stop line, and likewise as the police vehicle approached, they could not see traffic emerging from the side road until too late either.

[Southerner]

gazza285 said:

saknog said:

Just looking at it from different angles and not apportioning any blame but did the police car have its siren on, did you wife hear a siren or not?
Should drivers proceed with caution when hearing a siren until the location of the vehicle with the siren on is identified?
I have seen many times driver’s pull out in front of emergency vehicles, even though a siren can be heard long before the vehicle has appeared

My wife did not hear the siren.

As for the comment about not proceeding unless you can see the way is clear, there is no way to see if the way is clear from the stop line, and likewise as the police vehicle approached, they could not see traffic emerging from the side road until too late either.

The question of the siren is potentially a bit misleading; it seems to be a common occurence these days to observe emergency services on a shout running with blue lights only, then on goes the siren when they're moments away from a junction/roundabout/queue etc. I find this utterly baffling, and it quite obviously causes all sorts of needless confusion as drivers have little warning and no idea where it's coming from. It's entirely possible that the police car here did similar, racing silently up to the junction and then sticking on the siren on far too late for it to provide any sort of meaningful warning.

Can any of our resident police colleagues advise as to whether there's any sort of data recorder that would identify if/when the lights & siren were used, or is it merely the driver's word?

[Rushjob]

Southerner said:

The question of the siren is potentially a bit misleading; it seems to be a common occurence these days to observe emergency services on a shout running with blue lights only, then on goes the siren when they're moments away from a junction/roundabout/queue etc. I find this utterly baffling, and it quite obviously causes all sorts of needless confusion as drivers have little warning and no idea where it's coming from. It's entirely possible that the police car here did similar, racing silently up to the junction and then sticking on the siren on far too late for it to provide any sort of meaningful warning.

Can any of our resident police colleagues advise as to whether there's any sort of data recorder that would identify if/when the lights & siren were used, or is it merely the driver's word?

Data recorder ( if fitted - most likely these days ) will identify if the siren was in use.

[pteron]

Derek Smith said:

The other driver should have treated the green light as a give way sign. It does not mean proceed. Some blame lies with that driver it would appear.

What law do you base this statement on?

[Tom1312]

Southerner said:

The question of the siren is potentially a bit misleading; it seems to be a common occurence these days to observe emergency services on a shout running with blue lights only, then on goes the siren when they're moments away from a junction/roundabout/queue etc. I find this utterly baffling, and it quite obviously causes all sorts of needless confusion as drivers have little warning and no idea where it's coming from. It's entirely possible that the police car here did similar, racing silently up to the junction and then sticking on the siren on far too late for it to provide any sort of meaningful warning.

Can any of our resident police colleagues advise as to whether there's any sort of data recorder that would identify if/when the lights & siren were used, or is it merely the driver's word?

To be fair that's more an ambulance thing. No idea why they do it.

Yes, all that information is recorded and stored with the vehicles various monitoring systems.

[QBee]

Tom1312 said:

Southerner said:

The question of the siren is potentially a bit misleading; it seems to be a common occurence these days to observe emergency services on a shout running with blue lights only, then on goes the siren when they're moments away from a junction/roundabout/queue etc. I find this utterly baffling, and it quite obviously causes all sorts of needless confusion as drivers have little warning and no idea where it's coming from. It's entirely possible that the police car here did similar, racing silently up to the junction and then sticking on the siren on far too late for it to provide any sort of meaningful warning.

Can any of our resident police colleagues advise as to whether there's any sort of data recorder that would identify if/when the lights & siren were used, or is it merely the driver's word?

To be fair that's more an ambulance thing. No idea why they do it.

Yes, all that information is recorded and stored with the vehicles various monitoring systems.

If I was a seriously unwell but conscious patient in an emergency ambulance, I doubt I would want to hear the screaming siren for the entire journey.
I doubt it is much fun trying to concentrate at speed driving a police car with that racket going on either.
But safety is more important.

[MustangGT]

fred bloggs said:

Listen to this man. He is the expert on everything. Especially googling.

Thanks for your support, but no need to google, I just looked at my copy of the highway code to confirm the exact wording.

How's your studying going? Learnt about MOT validity yet?

[Rushjob]

pteron said:

Derek Smith said:

The other driver should have treated the green light as a give way sign. It does not mean proceed. Some blame lies with that driver it would appear.

What law do you base this statement on?

Well the Highway Code, which whilst not wholly a list of traffic law, is often used in UK courts as an arbiter of what is acceptable driving or not says.....

GREEN means you may go on if the way is clear. Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to pedestrians who are crossing.

Of course, as a careful and competent driver commenting on the driving standards of another, you wouldn't actually need this pointing out to you would you?

[Derek Smith]

Rushjob said:

Cough, Polaccs Derek! What you wrote is something different ......

OMG!

[Derek Smith]

QBee said:

Tom1312 said:

Southerner said:

The question of the siren is potentially a bit misleading; it seems to be a common occurence these days to observe emergency services on a shout running with blue lights only, then on goes the siren when they're moments away from a junction/roundabout/queue etc. I find this utterly baffling, and it quite obviously causes all sorts of needless confusion as drivers have little warning and no idea where it's coming from. It's entirely possible that the police car here did similar, racing silently up to the junction and then sticking on the siren on far too late for it to provide any sort of meaningful warning.

Can any of our resident police colleagues advise as to whether there's any sort of data recorder that would identify if/when the lights & siren were used, or is it merely the driver's word?

To be fair that's more an ambulance thing. No idea why they do it.

Yes, all that information is recorded and stored with the vehicles various monitoring systems.

If I was a seriously unwell but conscious patient in an emergency ambulance, I doubt I would want to hear the screaming siren for the entire journey.
I doubt it is much fun trying to concentrate at speed driving a police car with that racket going on either.
But safety is more important.

I always found that a driver in front was likely to do something unpredictable if they could hear sirens, two tones in my day, but not see the vehicle. I only tended to use them when pedestrians were around, or when approaching a junction or other hazard, ie when going slowly, or at least something I would slow for. I was mainly urban and high speed was a wee bit dangerous most of the time, even on blues and twos.

In both London and Sussex, the Fire Service used to leave sirens on for the longest. Try to get them to use silent approach was a waste of time.

[pteron]

Rushjob said:

pteron said:

Derek Smith said:

The other driver should have treated the green light as a give way sign. It does not mean proceed. Some blame lies with that driver it would appear.

What law do you base this statement on?

Well the Highway Code, which whilst not wholly a list of traffic law, is often used in UK courts as an arbiter of what is acceptable driving or not says.....

GREEN means you may go on if the way is clear. Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to pedestrians who are crossing.

Of course, as a careful and competent driver commenting on the driving standards of another, you wouldn't actually need this pointing out to you would you?

"Go on if the way is clear" is not the same as Give Way. The latter specifically places you in an 'inferior' position, you are joining a carriageway and must merge correctly. A green light specifically indicates that you're free to proceed, and in practice nobody would decelerate at a junction to check if something is coming through a red, the transport network would grind to a halt.

[Rushjob]

pteron said:

Rushjob said:

pteron said:

Derek Smith said:

The other driver should have treated the green light as a give way sign. It does not mean proceed. Some blame lies with that driver it would appear.

What law do you base this statement on?

Well the Highway Code, which whilst not wholly a list of traffic law, is often used in UK courts as an arbiter of what is acceptable driving or not says.....

GREEN means you may go on if the way is clear. Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to pedestrians who are crossing.

Of course, as a careful and competent driver commenting on the driving standards of another, you wouldn't actually need this pointing out to you would you?

"Go on if the way is clear" is not the same as Give Way. The latter specifically places you in an 'inferior' position, you are joining a carriageway and must merge correctly. A green light specifically indicates that you're free to proceed, and in practice nobody would decelerate at a junction to check if something is coming through a red, the transport network would grind to a halt.

You asked a question and were given the answer valid for driving in the UK.

[pteron]

Rushjob said:

pteron said:

Rushjob said:

pteron said:

Derek Smith said:

The other driver should have treated the green light as a give way sign. It does not mean proceed. Some blame lies with that driver it would appear.

What law do you base this statement on?

Well the Highway Code, which whilst not wholly a list of traffic law, is often used in UK courts as an arbiter of what is acceptable driving or not says.....

GREEN means you may go on if the way is clear. Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to pedestrians who are crossing.

Of course, as a careful and competent driver commenting on the driving standards of another, you wouldn't actually need this pointing out to you would you?

"Go on if the way is clear" is not the same as Give Way. The latter specifically places you in an 'inferior' position, you are joining a carriageway and must merge correctly. A green light specifically indicates that you're free to proceed, and in practice nobody would decelerate at a junction to check if something is coming through a red, the transport network would grind to a halt.

You asked a question and were given the answer valid for driving in the UK.

I asked for the law specifically saying treat a green as a give way which your answer failed to provide

[Southerner]

Derek Smith said:

I always found that a driver in front was likely to do something unpredictable if they could hear sirens, two tones in my day, but not see the vehicle. I only tended to use them when pedestrians were around, or when approaching a junction or other hazard, ie when going slowly, or at least something I would slow for. I was mainly urban and high speed was a wee bit dangerous most of the time, even on blues and twos.

In both London and Sussex, the Fire Service used to leave sirens on for the longest. Try to get them to use silent approach was a waste of time.

Interesting to hear a driver's perspective on it. Did you not get frustrated charging up behind people who hadn't noticed the lights in daylight, which seems quite a common issue?

[carreauchompeur]

pteron said:

I asked for the law specifically saying treat a green as a give way which your answer failed to provide

It’s actually not in law, just procedure. Police vehicles have an exemption from red lights.

[CABC]

Derek Smith said:

In both London and Sussex, the Fire Service used to leave sirens on for the longest. Try to get them to use silent approach was a waste of time.

how much does a full tender weigh?
I'm sure the brakes are quite good, but still.

[Yellow Lizud]

pteron said:

Derek Smith said:

The other driver should have treated the green light as a give way sign. It does not mean proceed. Some blame lies with that driver it would appear.

What law do you base this statement on?

The law of common sense, something you seem to be lacking in judging by your other posts.

You are waiting at a set of traffic lights, they turn to green but the car in front of you stalls. Do you just drive into the back of them because you have a green light?
You are driving on the major road and wish to turn right at the set of traffic lights ahead. Do you just turn right across any oncoming traffic because the lights are green?

Green means 'go if safe' although judging by the number of accidents at traffic lights I don't think many people understand this.