Question on who pays/liability for burning down a house
Discussion
porterpainter said:
Any standard UK home insurance policy for buildings and/or contents should deal with this claim.
The insurer can subrogate to recover from the roofers if they want…it’s their choice.
I cannot see any circumstance where a home insurance policy was in force, that the insurers would refuse to act and manage this claim.
This. End of thread. The insurer can subrogate to recover from the roofers if they want…it’s their choice.
I cannot see any circumstance where a home insurance policy was in force, that the insurers would refuse to act and manage this claim.
OP, your acquaintances’ folks need to make sure they do let their insurer fob them off.
bladebloke said:
porterpainter said:
Any standard UK home insurance policy for buildings and/or contents should deal with this claim.
The insurer can subrogate to recover from the roofers if they want…it’s their choice.
I cannot see any circumstance where a home insurance policy was in force, that the insurers would refuse to act and manage this claim.
This. End of thread. The insurer can subrogate to recover from the roofers if they want…it’s their choice.
I cannot see any circumstance where a home insurance policy was in force, that the insurers would refuse to act and manage this claim.
OP, your acquaintances’ folks need to make sure they do let their insurer fob them off.
Thanks for all the replies - much appreciated.
As has been mentioned, it might have been that the roofer left something smouldering rather than left a blowtorch on - I think all their parents know is that a short time after the roofer left, the loft/roof was alight. I guess what actually happened may or may not come out after the wreckage is examined. This only happened a couple of days ago, so when I heard about it, I think the parents were still understandably in a state of shock over it.
I'll point my friend to this thread, and they'll certainly help their parents in putting pressure on the home insurance provider.
When it all does eventually get sorted out, I'll try to remember to update the thread with the outcome.
Thanks.
As has been mentioned, it might have been that the roofer left something smouldering rather than left a blowtorch on - I think all their parents know is that a short time after the roofer left, the loft/roof was alight. I guess what actually happened may or may not come out after the wreckage is examined. This only happened a couple of days ago, so when I heard about it, I think the parents were still understandably in a state of shock over it.
I'll point my friend to this thread, and they'll certainly help their parents in putting pressure on the home insurance provider.
When it all does eventually get sorted out, I'll try to remember to update the thread with the outcome.
Thanks.
Jeremy-75qq8 said:
For any major claim you should appoint your own loss adjuster.
They are skilled at what they do and will argue the case using the correct wording and their knowledge of the insurance market.
Yes they have a cost but in my experience they are worthwhile.
Thanks for this advice as well.They are skilled at what they do and will argue the case using the correct wording and their knowledge of the insurance market.
Yes they have a cost but in my experience they are worthwhile.
I've passed this on, as well as the rest of the thread.
Most roofing felt is torch on. Most roof decks are timber.
Any contractor with any sense would monitor the roof for half an hour after he finishes any hot works just in case. As has been pointed out above it’s likely a requirement of his insurance policy.
Some roof decks on older properties can be made of things which are very combustible and hence there are self adhesive felt systems available but the default is still to use torch on in most instances. You don’t need to leave the torch going, something smouldering and unnoticed can result in a fire.
Always check whoever you employ has insurance. Having your house burnt down is unlikely but having someone trip or slip on something building related is pretty common.
Any contractor with any sense would monitor the roof for half an hour after he finishes any hot works just in case. As has been pointed out above it’s likely a requirement of his insurance policy.
Some roof decks on older properties can be made of things which are very combustible and hence there are self adhesive felt systems available but the default is still to use torch on in most instances. You don’t need to leave the torch going, something smouldering and unnoticed can result in a fire.
Always check whoever you employ has insurance. Having your house burnt down is unlikely but having someone trip or slip on something building related is pretty common.
Read the household policy.
They often contain clauses saying you must notify the insurer before any significant works to the property.
Insurers often impose conditions/restrictions/additional premium if "hot work" is involved. i.e. blow torch/roofing.
Policies often say you must check that anyone working at the property has adequate liability insurance before they start.
If you say, "the builder burnt down my house" your insurer might suggest contacting the builder's insurers first. More normally they would pay out and then pursue the builder/his insurance for negligence.
If you say, "my house burnt down and we don't know why" then it's your own insurer who will need to make the running.
They often contain clauses saying you must notify the insurer before any significant works to the property.
Insurers often impose conditions/restrictions/additional premium if "hot work" is involved. i.e. blow torch/roofing.
Policies often say you must check that anyone working at the property has adequate liability insurance before they start.
If you say, "the builder burnt down my house" your insurer might suggest contacting the builder's insurers first. More normally they would pay out and then pursue the builder/his insurance for negligence.
If you say, "my house burnt down and we don't know why" then it's your own insurer who will need to make the running.
Panamax said:
Read the household policy.
They often contain clauses saying you must notify the insurer before any significant works to the property.
Insurers often impose conditions/restrictions/additional premium if "hot work" is involved. i.e. blow torch/roofing.
Policies often say you must check that anyone working at the property has adequate liability insurance before they start.
If you say, "the builder burnt down my house" your insurer might suggest contacting the builder's insurers first. More normally they would pay out and then pursue the builder/his insurance for negligence.
If you say, "my house burnt down and we don't know why" then it's your own insurer who will need to make the running.
That word ‘significant’ becomes quite important. I imagine most people would inform their insurers about a large area of re-roofing with scaffolding etc. over several days, but probably not for a man in a van repairing a minor leak on a piece of flat roofing over a dormer window taking an hour or two off a ladder. The latter may well use a blow lamp, but many householders might not know that.They often contain clauses saying you must notify the insurer before any significant works to the property.
Insurers often impose conditions/restrictions/additional premium if "hot work" is involved. i.e. blow torch/roofing.
Policies often say you must check that anyone working at the property has adequate liability insurance before they start.
If you say, "the builder burnt down my house" your insurer might suggest contacting the builder's insurers first. More normally they would pay out and then pursue the builder/his insurance for negligence.
If you say, "my house burnt down and we don't know why" then it's your own insurer who will need to make the running.
Foss62 said:
I imagine most people would inform their insurers about a large area of re-roofing with scaffolding etc. over several days,
This came up in another thread a while ago - I think when the front fell off a house and the builders insurance refused to cover over some admin issue.I regard myself as pretty cautious and aware but it never occured to me to tell our insurer about significant extension work. I imagine they'd just refuse to cover anything that could possibly be related anyway.
I really can't believe many people would tell their insurer.
Sheepshanks said:
This came up in another thread a while ago - I think when the front fell off a house and the builders insurance refused to cover over some admin issue.
I regard myself as pretty cautious and aware but it never occured to me to tell our insurer about significant extension work. I imagine they'd just refuse to cover anything that could possibly be related anyway.
I really can't believe many people would tell their insurer.
It’s really quite important to do this. We did when we had our extension built a few years ago. They do ask for an additional premium, but it wasn’t enormous. They then cover all the same risks, and would pay you and chase the builders if something directly related to the works happened.I regard myself as pretty cautious and aware but it never occured to me to tell our insurer about significant extension work. I imagine they'd just refuse to cover anything that could possibly be related anyway.
I really can't believe many people would tell their insurer.
I would guess that their actual biggest increased risk is probably that of security, when builders and their contractors are coming and going and may leave doors open (or off!) etc.
Foss62 said:
That word ‘significant’ becomes quite important. I imagine most people would inform their insurers about a large area of re-roofing with scaffolding etc. over several days, but probably not for a man in a van repairing a minor leak on a piece of flat roofing over a dormer window taking an hour or two off a ladder. The latter may well use a blow lamp, but many householders might not know that.
A common wording is along the lines of "you must tell us... if you intend to do any building work or renovations inside or outside the property (except routine maintenance and decorating)" (Taken from Admiral's wording). Never seen one that specifies the use of a blow torch in particular as having an impact on your cover. Fixing a leaky roof or a length of pipe might well involve a blowtorch, but would still be routine maintenance. Replacing an entire roof on the other hand...Ultimately it probably matters exactly what the OP's friends were having done and what the policy says - neither of which he told us
Foss62 said:
It’s really quite important to do this. We did when we had our extension built a few years ago. They do ask for an additional premium, but it wasn’t enormous. They then cover all the same risks, and would pay you and chase the builders if something directly related to the works happened.
I would guess that their actual biggest increased risk is probably that of security, when builders and their contractors are coming and going and may leave doors open (or off!) etc.
Oh well! Most of our stuff was in a container (which I did insure). Theft would be tricky with people in and out. I would guess that their actual biggest increased risk is probably that of security, when builders and their contractors are coming and going and may leave doors open (or off!) etc.
I’d imagine the bigger risk is like the OP’s - something catastrophic happening to the building, same as in the case in the other thread I mentioned.
Just had a look at my policy and this is what they say:
So although it doesn’t sound like they need to know about the phase 1 which is just a standard rip out and re-fit fresh. They do need to know about phase 2 as we will be one less bathroom.
insurance said:
5. If you are having any building work done.?You must tell us before the start of any building work, conversions, renovations, demolitions and extensions at your property.
:
You must tell us about the work at least 30 days before it starts.
You do not need to tell us if the work is for redecoration only, is routine maintenance or is to replace or refit existing kitchen or bathroom fittings and does not involve making any structural changes to walls, ceilings or floors.)
You must also tell us if the building work alters the number of bedrooms or bathrooms.
Looks like I am going to have to speak to my insurance. We are having a new main bathroom put in and the works start Thursday. However phase 2 of these works is to remove the current en-suite and replace with a dressing room. :
You must tell us about the work at least 30 days before it starts.
You do not need to tell us if the work is for redecoration only, is routine maintenance or is to replace or refit existing kitchen or bathroom fittings and does not involve making any structural changes to walls, ceilings or floors.)
You must also tell us if the building work alters the number of bedrooms or bathrooms.
So although it doesn’t sound like they need to know about the phase 1 which is just a standard rip out and re-fit fresh. They do need to know about phase 2 as we will be one less bathroom.
We had our home building and contents insurance retrospectively cancelled because I had not told them about an extension we had built (this came out at renewal time when I dutifully informed them that we now had an extra bedroom).
Caused us significant issues trying to get cover elsewhere and we are now paying significantly more for it as a result. I had never even thought to tell them.
Caused us significant issues trying to get cover elsewhere and we are now paying significantly more for it as a result. I had never even thought to tell them.
alfabeat said:
We had our home building and contents insurance retrospectively cancelled because I had not told them about an extension we had built (this came out at renewal time when I dutifully informed them that we now had an extra bedroom).
Caused us significant issues trying to get cover elsewhere and we are now paying significantly more for it as a result. I had never even thought to tell them.
That’s an interesting point as I had to change ours at renewal as we’d added another bedroom and bathroom. Premium increased a bit but no comment was made about having the work done.Caused us significant issues trying to get cover elsewhere and we are now paying significantly more for it as a result. I had never even thought to tell them.
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