RE: Speed limit watch- dog now: ABD
Discussion
Maybe time and effort should be put into driver training and education as opposed to "dumbing down" speed limits, traffic calming etc. Reducing speed limits does not get to the heart of the problem which 9 times out of 10 is inappropriate speed for the conditions and a over estimation of ones ability !!
Is this just a way of keeping politians busy or what? I have not heard of any sensible speed-related measure in ages. It's all about de-skilling and dumbing down drivers who feel great undercutting the most stupid speed limits without paying any attention to what they really are doing. But they get "rewarded" by law. Can anybody stop this madness, prrrrlease? 
Many years ago I had no money and a 205 GLD I used to cruise at 60mph on the MWay cause I fugured it would give better mpg based on the the book figures. After a while I got bored with this (!) and decided to cruise at 70mph (it was an N/A Diesel...) and guess what, absolutely no difference in mpg.
The key is keeping you speed constant, hence in town traffic lights and speed humps = polution...
The key is keeping you speed constant, hence in town traffic lights and speed humps = polution...
The article said:
The ABD argues that the new guidance, contained in Circular 01/2006, will see many speed limits lowered when they do not need to be, increasing tailgating, dangerous frustration overtakes and leading to a lack of respect for limits. This comes as many counties have now set artificially low speed limits on safe, clear roads yet seen no decrease in crash numbers.
Funny that I come to work to this article today. On the way here, I had one of those tailgating wankers on my arse today while I was doing 30mph in a 30 limit. He eventually shot passed me doing about 50 - only to be just ahead of me on the roundabout about 1/2 mile ahead. What goes on in these idiots heads is beyond me.
bridgland said:
The government need to understand the linked impact that this also has on businesses. Am I going to get up earlier to save CO2 emissions? No! Am I going to work longer hours to make up for my lost time? Not necessarily!
Absolutely agree, and that's what the government fails to understand. This crap will affect:
- safety: unnecessarily low speed limits WILL mushroom because the PC lentilheads in local government that have the power to do so have an obsession with the 'speed kills' nonsense. Hence more bunching, more people frustrated, more people overtaking in situations they would never have dreamed of doing so previously. Hence accidents and road rage WILL increase.
- businesses: as you say, travel times will increase and someone has to pay for that. It sure as hell isn't going to eat into my personal time, which is precious to me and most others because there just aren't enough hours in the day, so businesses will suffer.
Well, we thought this government were listening and had learned when they (allegedly) had a moratorium on increasing the number of scumeras - this latest nonsense proves that they are, and always have been, dickheads.
Julian
7db said:
Who would sit on ABDs proposed "OfSpeed"?
Those qualified to do so and there are plenty. This would mostly rule out national politicians, local councillors and camera partnership drones, plus anyone linked to them and/or associated with current policy failure. There are plenty of pre-political correctness traffic engineers and sane ex-trafpol who would do a good job, plus folk like Paul Smith and MMC. The AA and RAC are less than useless apologists for their next insurance plan or preferred loan advert, and need to be kept well away.
turbobloke said:
7db said:
Who would sit on ABDs proposed "OfSpeed"?
Those qualified to do so and there are plenty. This would mostly rule out national politicians, local councillors and camera partnership drones, plus anyone linked to them and/or associated with current policy failure. There are plenty of pre-political correctness traffic engineers and sane ex-trafpol who would do a good job, plus folk like Paul Smith and MMC. The AA and RAC are less than useless apologists for their next insurance plan or preferred loan advert, and need to be kept well away.
So anyone who'd agree with you then ?
vonhosen said:
turbobloke said:
7db said:
Who would sit on ABDs proposed "OfSpeed"?
Those qualified to do so and there are plenty. This would mostly rule out national politicians, local councillors and camera partnership drones, plus anyone linked to them and/or associated with current policy failure. There are plenty of pre-political correctness traffic engineers and sane ex-trafpol who would do a good job, plus folk like Paul Smith and MMC. The AA and RAC are less than useless apologists for their next insurance plan or preferred loan advert, and need to be kept well away.
So anyone who'd agree with you then ?
chris watton said:
dragonship said:
40mph would be good on narrow single track roads (my route home is one) but blanket an area as was suggested is barmy, i would never get into 5th gear. Also i remember when they said that 56 mph was the optimum speed for economy. i wonder if there will be high paid jobs for walking in front with a red flag
I have to use one of these single track narrow roads to get to and from work work every day, and I can say that I have never gone above 30 - any higher than this and the braking distance would be too long to avoid oncoming traffic if it were coming around the corner - all good common sense, self preservation stuff. I have also NEVER seen anyone else going above this speed - it appears that the road layouts dictate the speed the majority of the time - someone has too much time on their hand and talking out of their ar$e, as usual - and we all suffer because of it..
All roads are different, and at any given time any given road is different. I do actually know some single carriageway roads where the surface is excellent, visibility is in excess of half a mile, fences are good, and set several yards back from the road, so even pheasants can been spotted from a distance. These roads are good for 80mph plus most days......and less than 10 in heavy fog.
I know others where even as a young lad with no brain and a fast car, I wouldn't exceed fifteen mph.
The whole concept of speed limits needs to be addressed publicly, and we need to start educating drivers, myself included. 'De-skilling' driving is costing lives.
Indeedy.
The fact is that appropriate persons will (inevitably) generally agree.
Not beause any one person's view is more important than anotheras such, but because anyone who has read decades of research on road safety will know that political correctness, shameful lying with statistics from scamera supporters, the odd focus group consisting of three nu labia activists four greenpeace members and a left handed trombonist CANNOT overthrow years and years of proven road safety principles.
So yes, VH, someone who agrees with me - as my opinion isn't formed as a result of some personal superiority but becuase it's the view offered by decades of research right up to nu labia's era of unthinking anti-car ideology and procedural incompetence.
However if there was a driving standards watchdog - as opposed to the current government agency quango puppet set-up - I'd vote for you to be part of that VH, but never in a month of Sundays as a member of Ofspeed or Oflimits
or whatever.
The fact is that appropriate persons will (inevitably) generally agree.
Not beause any one person's view is more important than anotheras such, but because anyone who has read decades of research on road safety will know that political correctness, shameful lying with statistics from scamera supporters, the odd focus group consisting of three nu labia activists four greenpeace members and a left handed trombonist CANNOT overthrow years and years of proven road safety principles.
So yes, VH, someone who agrees with me - as my opinion isn't formed as a result of some personal superiority but becuase it's the view offered by decades of research right up to nu labia's era of unthinking anti-car ideology and procedural incompetence.
However if there was a driving standards watchdog - as opposed to the current government agency quango puppet set-up - I'd vote for you to be part of that VH, but never in a month of Sundays as a member of Ofspeed or Oflimits
or whatever. jasandjules said:
vonhosen said:
So anyone who'd agree with you then ?
Surely just anyone intelligent enough to realise that observant driving prevents accidents rather than a rigid adherence to an arbirtrary limit regardless of hazards and road conditions.
I am calling for observant driving.
I am NOT calling for prosecutions for minor transgressions.
I am saying that where someone has attempted to reasonably obey the limit they should be OK.
I am saying where they ignore or don't pay any heed to that then yes there is nothing wrong in prosecuting them.
I consider attempting to stick to limits the reasoanble actions of a careful competent driver.
We have minimum standards that allows people to drive on our roads & with those minimum standards we need limits because the standard is not great enough to not have them.
vonhosen said:
I consider attempting to stick to limits the reasoanble actions of a careful competent driver.
If doing so is dangerous then the driver is incompetent as well as dangerous. Most limits are not applicable at any one time of day or night and sticking rigidly to them would be hazardous, but they are enforceable and not sticking to them will criminalise a driver.
That's partly why the law on vehicle speed is an ass.
turbobloke said:
vonhosen said:
I consider attempting to stick to limits the reasoanble actions of a careful competent driver.
If doing so is dangerous then the driver is incompetent as well as dangerous. Most limits are not applicable at any one time of day or night and sticking rigidly to them would be hazardous, but they are enforceable and not sticking to them will criminalise a driver.
That's partly why the law on vehicle speed is an ass.
You know what I meant, stick within the limits.
You don't have to stick rigidly to them, you can drive under them & you definitely should where safety dictates it.
edit for pedant clarification
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 10th August 15:13
vonhosen said:
turbobloke said:
vonhosen said:
I consider attempting to stick to limits the reasoanble actions of a careful competent driver.
If doing so is dangerous then the driver is incompetent as well as dangerous. Most limits are not applicable at any one time of day or night and sticking rigidly to them would be hazardous, but they are enforceable and not sticking to them will criminalise a driver.
That's partly why the law on vehicle speed is an ass.
You don't have to stick rigidly to them, you can drive under them.
It is the driver training that is the real issue. If the powers that be really want to see reduction in road deaths and an across the board improvement in skill, there really should be regular re-training/ testing in order to keep your licence.
We all develop habits, some good, some not so, and it is very easy to relax and "switch off" when we get in our comfortable vehicles. When you are in this mode, but have one eye on the speedo, it is surely a matter of time before the inevitable happens.
The test should include a number of assessments for varying conditions and hazards (do it in two parts; summer and winter), and happen, say every 4 years. This should be linked into insurance premiums, so the better drivers really do get a better deal. Borderline passes pay more and failures are removed from the roads altogether until they can reach the required standard.
Furthermore, the standard driving test should be tightened up and extended; split into compulsory "modules". This way you pass the basic test first, then do night driving, motorway skills and maybe even vehicle control (skid pan) etc. When I passed, I had never driven at night, and the first time I drove in Autumn, wet leaves were very nearly the undoing of me! But it is this kind of basic hazard or condition that seem to be overlooked, sending many a Kev in to ditch.
Finally I believe that variable limits on the motorways should be rolled out across the network, so that at the very busiest times of day, the speed limit can keep traffic flowing; seems to work well on the M25... When conditions deteriorate due to weather speed limit should adjust to suit and when conditions are good and traffic is clear, limit should be relaxed so that you can cruise at 90mph or whatever is appropriate.
It is however easier not to spend anymore money than it would take to get legislation on the statute books, and dish out the fines/tax like your the Sheriff of Nottingham. Government then blames sections of the general public for road safety issues, motorists are demonised and sooner or later the fear sets in. Once we all have the "fear", government can do whatever they want without question...
We all develop habits, some good, some not so, and it is very easy to relax and "switch off" when we get in our comfortable vehicles. When you are in this mode, but have one eye on the speedo, it is surely a matter of time before the inevitable happens.
The test should include a number of assessments for varying conditions and hazards (do it in two parts; summer and winter), and happen, say every 4 years. This should be linked into insurance premiums, so the better drivers really do get a better deal. Borderline passes pay more and failures are removed from the roads altogether until they can reach the required standard.
Furthermore, the standard driving test should be tightened up and extended; split into compulsory "modules". This way you pass the basic test first, then do night driving, motorway skills and maybe even vehicle control (skid pan) etc. When I passed, I had never driven at night, and the first time I drove in Autumn, wet leaves were very nearly the undoing of me! But it is this kind of basic hazard or condition that seem to be overlooked, sending many a Kev in to ditch.
Finally I believe that variable limits on the motorways should be rolled out across the network, so that at the very busiest times of day, the speed limit can keep traffic flowing; seems to work well on the M25... When conditions deteriorate due to weather speed limit should adjust to suit and when conditions are good and traffic is clear, limit should be relaxed so that you can cruise at 90mph or whatever is appropriate.
It is however easier not to spend anymore money than it would take to get legislation on the statute books, and dish out the fines/tax like your the Sheriff of Nottingham. Government then blames sections of the general public for road safety issues, motorists are demonised and sooner or later the fear sets in. Once we all have the "fear", government can do whatever they want without question...
mx-tro said:
It is the driver training that is the real issue. If the powers that be really want to see reduction in road deaths and an across the board improvement in skill, there really should be regular re-training/ testing in order to keep your licence.
We all develop habits, some good, some not so, and it is very easy to relax and "switch off" when we get in our comfortable vehicles. When you are in this mode, but have one eye on the speedo, it is surely a matter of time before the inevitable happens.
The test should include a number of assessments for varying conditions and hazards (do it in two parts; summer and winter), and happen, say every 4 years. This should be linked into insurance premiums, so the better drivers really do get a better deal. Borderline passes pay more and failures are removed from the roads altogether until they can reach the required standard.
Furthermore, the standard driving test should be tightened up and extended; split into compulsory "modules". This way you pass the basic test first, then do night driving, motorway skills and maybe even vehicle control (skid pan) etc. When I passed, I had never driven at night, and the first time I drove in Autumn, wet leaves were very nearly the undoing of me! But it is this kind of basic hazard or condition that seem to be overlooked, sending many a Kev in to ditch.
Finally I believe that variable limits on the motorways should be rolled out across the network, so that at the very busiest times of day, the speed limit can keep traffic flowing; seems to work well on the M25... When conditions deteriorate due to weather speed limit should adjust to suit and when conditions are good and traffic is clear, limit should be relaxed so that you can cruise at 90mph or whatever is appropriate.
It is however easier not to spend anymore money than it would take to get legislation on the statute books, and dish out the fines/tax like your the Sheriff of Nottingham. Government then blames sections of the general public for road safety issues, motorists are demonised and sooner or later the fear sets in. Once we all have the "fear", government can do whatever they want without question...
We all develop habits, some good, some not so, and it is very easy to relax and "switch off" when we get in our comfortable vehicles. When you are in this mode, but have one eye on the speedo, it is surely a matter of time before the inevitable happens.
The test should include a number of assessments for varying conditions and hazards (do it in two parts; summer and winter), and happen, say every 4 years. This should be linked into insurance premiums, so the better drivers really do get a better deal. Borderline passes pay more and failures are removed from the roads altogether until they can reach the required standard.
Furthermore, the standard driving test should be tightened up and extended; split into compulsory "modules". This way you pass the basic test first, then do night driving, motorway skills and maybe even vehicle control (skid pan) etc. When I passed, I had never driven at night, and the first time I drove in Autumn, wet leaves were very nearly the undoing of me! But it is this kind of basic hazard or condition that seem to be overlooked, sending many a Kev in to ditch.
Finally I believe that variable limits on the motorways should be rolled out across the network, so that at the very busiest times of day, the speed limit can keep traffic flowing; seems to work well on the M25... When conditions deteriorate due to weather speed limit should adjust to suit and when conditions are good and traffic is clear, limit should be relaxed so that you can cruise at 90mph or whatever is appropriate.
It is however easier not to spend anymore money than it would take to get legislation on the statute books, and dish out the fines/tax like your the Sheriff of Nottingham. Government then blames sections of the general public for road safety issues, motorists are demonised and sooner or later the fear sets in. Once we all have the "fear", government can do whatever they want without question...
I've said I personally think variable limits on motorways should be possible & could be a benefit.
Re-testing ?
You are obviously confident that you could pass a retest & at higher standards, but what about the majority of drivers in the UK ?
Are they going to go for that ?
Don't get me wrong, I believe the greatest benefit is in having a nation of highly skilled drivers, but the government will surely only use methods that they think they can get away with without it costing them power or hurting the exchequer.
turbobloke said:
vonhosen said:
turbobloke said:
vonhosen said:
I consider attempting to stick to limits the reasoanble actions of a careful competent driver.
If doing so is dangerous then the driver is incompetent as well as dangerous. Most limits are not applicable at any one time of day or night and sticking rigidly to them would be hazardous, but they are enforceable and not sticking to them will criminalise a driver.
That's partly why the law on vehicle speed is an ass.
You don't have to stick rigidly to them, you can drive under them.
Show me a driver who sticks to every limit and I'll show you a driver who is a menace on the roads. Not just because they can't think for themselves about what the appropriate speed for a road should be (so many limits are too low) and are happy to be told (OK, they may have 9 points), but they'll most likely pull out on people, be excessively hesitant, hog the middle lane of a three-lane road, will be a member of the motoring class most accident-prone and least caught by speed cameras (over 75 years old) and be generally beligerant.
Edited by james_j on Friday 11th August 17:38
james_j said:
turbobloke said:
vonhosen said:
turbobloke said:
vonhosen said:
I consider attempting to stick to limits the reasoanble actions of a careful competent driver.
If doing so is dangerous then the driver is incompetent as well as dangerous. Most limits are not applicable at any one time of day or night and sticking rigidly to them would be hazardous, but they are enforceable and not sticking to them will criminalise a driver.
That's partly why the law on vehicle speed is an ass.
You don't have to stick rigidly to them, you can drive under them.
Show me a driver who sticks to every limit and I'll show you a driver who is a menace on the roads. Not just because they can't think for themselves about what the appropriate speed for a road should be (so many limits are too low) and are happy to be told (OK, they may have 9 points), but they'll most likely pull out on people, be excessively hesitant, hog the middle lane of a three-lane road, will be a member of the motoring class most accident-prone and least caught by speed cameras (over 75 years old) and be generally beligerant.
Edited by james_j on Friday 11th August 17:38
Just because you stick to limits doesn't mean you have to be dangerous.
What is the policy of advanced driving assosciations like IAM & RoADA on speed ?
There is no reason why you can't obey limits, be safe, courteous & skilful.
Skill doesn't come from or can't be inferred by the speed you travel at. That is a common mistake that boy racers make. "I'm better than you, I'm faster than you".
Remember though, we're an ageing nation. The number of elderly are growing proportionally as we live longer & will form a large proportion of the electorate.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff