Should have removed the flip plate.....

[jshell]

AFAIK the plate flipping device is illegal to have installed. If I have an illegal gun I wouldn't think that the excuse of 'it's not working properly' would do me any good in court, and I'd certainly get a 5-stretch. I'm not comparing the device with a gun...just the principle of illegal ownership.

If you are summonsed, I'd get a decent lawyer.

[Targarama]

You may hear nothing from the Police at all. Of course it is the CPS who decide whether there is a case to prosecute, they may try to make an example of you. Can you prove the plate didn't work, or will it be your word against the officers?

On another note: You knew you had a flip device installed, for 7 years. You didn't remove it despite it not working for this whole time, and you most probably knew it was illegal. I find that all hard to believe. How much work would it have been to remove the device and not ask for the trouble you may now be in.

[Hyperion]

Oh
I guess I'd better cancel my order for one of these then... http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16963



ETA - the stupid officer was just scaring you.
A friend of mine got pulled for his questionable overtaking abilities a few months ago, and the officer told him 'you'll be hearing from the court'.
He hasn't heard anything back to date.

Edited by Hyperion on Thursday 23 April 09:10

[Lewy]

Targarama said:

You may hear nothing from the Police at all. Of course it is the CPS who decide whether there is a case to prosecute, they may try to make an example of you. Can you prove the plate didn't work, or will it be your word against the officers?

On another note: You knew you had a flip device installed, for 7 years. You didn't remove it despite it not working for this whole time, and you most probably knew it was illegal. I find that all hard to believe. How much work would it have been to remove the device and not ask for the trouble you may now be in.

I demonstrated to the officer on the side of the road how the plate did not work which he accepted.
The reason i've never changed the plate was because the device had been cut into the bikes number plate assembly very neatly and removing it would have meant purchasing a new part. It's always passed an MOT fine so thought nothing more of it.
Thanks for letting me know the CPS will now decide if to prosecute.

[oldsoak]

Lewy said:

Sheriff JWPepper said:

Lewy said:

The motorcycle traffic officer said that the plate was illegal giving an example that I could spot have spotted him, altered the plate and then rode off and he wouldn’t have been able to catch me. He then took some photos and said I would be hearing from the courts. I was issued with a producer to take my licence into the nearest police station but that was only paperwork I received.

Did he not saying anything along the lines of "I am reporting you for....." or "You will be reported for.....".

No, he never said a specific reason why. I believe he was unsure of what offence i had committed.

This number plate has passed every MOT for the last 7 years of my ownership so i really never considered that i would be expecting a court summons after being checked by the police.

Edited by Lewy on Thursday 23 April 08:29

So are you saying you were not cautioned at all?
If this is the case and anything does come of this stop (unlikely IMPO as I would doubt that any CPS would entertain perusing such a non-starter...) your brief should get any charges dismissed without any trouble, probably without it getting as far as a court appearance.

[C8PPO]

Never mind all that, do you want to sell said device??

[Gallen]

deeps said:

I can't see that you've got anything to answer for. The previous owner fitted the device, and you disabled it (or didn't need to bother because it didn't operate anyway) which keeps you within the law?

+1

You were acting responsibly - and proved to the officer that it was not capable of functioning.

If you had to stop to alter the plate, then surely this is clear!

[Lewy]

[/quote]
So are you saying you were not cautioned at all?
If this is the case and anything does come of this stop (unlikely IMPO as I would doubt that any CPS would entertain perusing such a non-starter...) your brief should get any charges dismissed without any trouble, probably without it getting as far as a court appearance.
[/quote]

That’s correct, definitely no caution was given. I imagine an officer would say something like 'I am cautioning you for .......... and this matter is being referred to the CPS for the following reasons'.........
The officer did say that the plate was illegal and not the correct standard size and that a court would have to decide what to do as he was unsure. Looking back I should have asked him to summarize why I was not given a fixed penalty like a friend of mine with me did for his 7 x 5 plate.


Thanks to everyone for their opinions.

[BAHN-STORMA]

Lewy said:

The officer witnessed the device not working as it was intended but he said i could manually move the plate by hand.

You could manually put your hand over the plate to obtain the same result!

Sounds like a non-starter to me - had the device been capable of functioning, however, it would have been rather different!

[Dr Jekyll]

jshell said:

AFAIK the plate flipping device is illegal to have installed. If I have an illegal gun I wouldn't think that the excuse of 'it's not working properly' would do me any good in court, and I'd certainly get a 5-stretch. I'm not comparing the device with a gun...just the principle of illegal ownership.

If you are summonsed, I'd get a decent lawyer.

Deactivated firearms can be owned perfectly legally.

[jshell]

Dr Jekyll said:

jshell said:

AFAIK the plate flipping device is illegal to have installed. If I have an illegal gun I wouldn't think that the excuse of 'it's not working properly' would do me any good in court, and I'd certainly get a 5-stretch. I'm not comparing the device with a gun...just the principle of illegal ownership.

If you are summonsed, I'd get a decent lawyer.

Deactivated firearms can be owned perfectly legally.

Agreed, but I didn't say deac, I said: 'illegal' and 'not working'. I knew a farmer who's found an old rusty SMLE in one of his fields years after the land had been used for mil training. That was a firearm and not a deac in legal terms, he'd have been persecuted prosecuted for keeping it.

[paoloh]

jshell said:

Dr Jekyll said:

jshell said:

AFAIK the plate flipping device is illegal to have installed. If I have an illegal gun I wouldn't think that the excuse of 'it's not working properly' would do me any good in court, and I'd certainly get a 5-stretch. I'm not comparing the device with a gun...just the principle of illegal ownership.

If you are summonsed, I'd get a decent lawyer.

Deactivated firearms can be owned perfectly legally.

Agreed, but I didn't say deac, I said: 'illegal' and 'not working'. I knew a farmer who's found an old rusty SMLE in one of his fields years after the land had been used for mil training. That was a firearm and not a deac in legal terms, he'd have been persecuted prosecuted for keeping it.

Let's not be silly.

Having a gun is illegal to begin with ( in most cases )

Having a number plate that reads correctly is not.

[jshell]

paoloh said:

jshell said:

Dr Jekyll said:

jshell said:

AFAIK the plate flipping device is illegal to have installed. If I have an illegal gun I wouldn't think that the excuse of 'it's not working properly' would do me any good in court, and I'd certainly get a 5-stretch. I'm not comparing the device with a gun...just the principle of illegal ownership.

If you are summonsed, I'd get a decent lawyer.

Deactivated firearms can be owned perfectly legally.

Agreed, but I didn't say deac, I said: 'illegal' and 'not working'. I knew a farmer who's found an old rusty SMLE in one of his fields years after the land had been used for mil training. That was a firearm and not a deac in legal terms, he'd have been persecuted prosecuted for keeping it.

Let's not be silly.

Having a gun is illegal to begin with ( in most cases )

Having a number plate that reads correctly is not.

It's not about guns, it's making the point that common sense is not a valued currency in court.... If he has an illegal mechanism, the court won't care if it 'works' or not.

[Lewy]

jshell said:

paoloh said:

jshell said:

Dr Jekyll said:

jshell said:

AFAIK the plate flipping device is illegal to have installed. If I have an illegal gun I wouldn't think that the excuse of 'it's not working properly' would do me any good in court, and I'd certainly get a 5-stretch. I'm not comparing the device with a gun...just the principle of illegal ownership.

If you are summonsed, I'd get a decent lawyer.

Deactivated firearms can be owned perfectly legally.

Agreed, but I didn't say deac, I said: 'illegal' and 'not working'. I knew a farmer who's found an old rusty SMLE in one of his fields years after the land had been used for mil training. That was a firearm and not a deac in legal terms, he'd have been persecuted prosecuted for keeping it.

Let's not be silly.

Having a gun is illegal to begin with ( in most cases )

Having a number plate that reads correctly is not.

It's not about guns, it's making the point that common sense is not a valued currency in court.... If he has an illegal mechanism, the court won't care if it 'works' or not.

Thats what i am concerned about, how a court would view this. Would they take into acount that i never fitted it, i have never used it, it does not work, it's passed 7 MOT's, etc.

[Gallen]

jshell said:

.... If he has an illegal mechanism, the court won't care if it 'works' or not.

I'm not sure about this... it has been de-commissioned.

Additionally the OP has not done anything wrong, apart from a non-uniform plate.

He has also not tried to hide or obscure his plate in any way, nor has he ever been found to do so.

[Gallen]

- furthermore, the devices in question are often used in "shows" to hide the vehicle's age-related plate.

(May not be illegal to own, but illegal to use in a manner whereby the plate become obscured - Certainly not the case here)

[jshell]

Lewy said:

jshell said:

paoloh said:

jshell said:

Dr Jekyll said:

jshell said:

AFAIK the plate flipping device is illegal to have installed. If I have an illegal gun I wouldn't think that the excuse of 'it's not working properly' would do me any good in court, and I'd certainly get a 5-stretch. I'm not comparing the device with a gun...just the principle of illegal ownership.

If you are summonsed, I'd get a decent lawyer.

Deactivated firearms can be owned perfectly legally.

Agreed, but I didn't say deac, I said: 'illegal' and 'not working'. I knew a farmer who's found an old rusty SMLE in one of his fields years after the land had been used for mil training. That was a firearm and not a deac in legal terms, he'd have been persecuted prosecuted for keeping it.

Let's not be silly.

Having a gun is illegal to begin with ( in most cases )

Having a number plate that reads correctly is not.

It's not about guns, it's making the point that common sense is not a valued currency in court.... If he has an illegal mechanism, the court won't care if it 'works' or not.

Thats what i am concerned about, how a court would view this. Would they take into acount that i never fitted it, i have never used it, it does not work, it's passed 7 MOT's, etc.

I'm no expert here, but I've read a lot of threads about 'common sense' not entering a courtroom, so that's why I've been banging on about a good lawyer. 'If' the court took a dim view of it, you 'may' be convicted and spanked.

Common sense says it should be no problem at all whatsoever......BUT...courts often deal in 'absolutes', not common sense!!!!

[jshell]

Gallen said:

jshell said:

.... If he has an illegal mechanism, the court won't care if it 'works' or not.

I'm not sure about this... it has been de-commissioned.

Additionally the OP has not done anything wrong, apart from a non-uniform plate.

He has also not tried to hide or obscure his plate in any way, nor has he ever been found to do so.

OP says it's 'not working', not that it's been 'de-commissioned'. That's why I used the gun parallel. Properly de-commissioned is OK, 'Not Working' gets you a 5-stretch. Big difference in law.

[Lewy]

When I take it apart tonight to remove I’ll be able to determine if the system has developed a fault or if it had been decommissioned. Good advice.

What information is provided on a summons ?
Do they simply state a date of when you must appear in court ?
Do they state what offence has been committed ?

[jshell]

Lewy said:

When I take it apart tonight to remove I’ll be able to determine if the system has developed a fault or if it had been decommissioned. Good advice.

What information is provided on a summons ?
Do they simply state a date of when you must appear in court ?
Do they state what offence has been committed ?

The many BiB on here can better advise on these issues.

As a firearm owner, I just know never to rely on the courts giving 'benefit of the doubt' or using common sense due to the utterly malicious prosecutions that my sport has endlessly endured.