Dealer Mistake
Discussion
ExPat2B said:
Can anyone explain to me how a DVD can be 300 quid ? Considering you can buy a top of the range SatNav for 300 pounds.
It reeks of price gouging by Ford. And they are not alone.
tell me about it!!It reeks of price gouging by Ford. And they are not alone.
Annoyingly i bought the car despite the sat nav system, having worked in the fleet business previously i knew that when they go wrong it's always expensive and a PITA as its part of the car not just a device that can be easily replaced.
I would have thought that as the requirement for the disc is consequential to the repair of the Nav unit itself, the manufacturer should be paying. You wouldn’t expect them to put the old engine oil back into the car after a warranty repair on an engine would you?
I understand the stance on discs not being covered under warranty, but this is different. Design an upgrade that then renders the unit inoperable and THEN charge for the fix.....they know they have an issue – ring the DP/GM and you’ll find a new disc will magically appear.
I understand the stance on discs not being covered under warranty, but this is different. Design an upgrade that then renders the unit inoperable and THEN charge for the fix.....they know they have an issue – ring the DP/GM and you’ll find a new disc will magically appear.
ExPat2B said:
Can anyone explain to me how a DVD can be 300 quid ? Considering you can buy a top of the range SatNav for 300 pounds.
It reeks of price gouging by Ford. And they are not alone.
Mercedes is the same - they're not copy protected and they more or less say they expect people to copy them. There are stories that the copied ones cause the laser diode in the reader to wear out quicker, which sounds like bIt reeks of price gouging by Ford. And they are not alone.
ks, but for all I know might be true.Edited by Deva Link on Tuesday 22 June 10:16
JustinP1 said:
Occam's Razor - Cut through the possibilities to find the most likely answer:
1) Ford, one of the largest motor companies in the world encounter an issue in 2008, and have not yet passed on this issue concerning possibly hundreds of thousands of cars to the authorised dealer network.
2) The Ford dealership got the information in 2008 and forgot about it.
My money is on 2).
Therefore I would call their bluff:
Dear Dealer Principle,
Further to the recent issue where upgrading the firmware on my Satnav has now made it irreparably inoperable without spending over £300 on a new DVD, I find it quite astonishing that Ford have never informed their authorised dealer network of this major issue as I have been verbally informed by your staff.
So that I can take up this issue with them at a very high level, I would appreciate it if you could confirm this is writing so that I can have the ammunition to make a successful complaint.
Yours,
OP
It's not an issue between the OP and Ford, there is no contract between them. I do appreciate, though, that this is initially a mechanism to try to force the DP's hand. Nevertheless, it shouldn't be necessary and sending such a letter could cause the DP to wash their hands of the matter, saying that the OP is now dealing with Ford directly. I'd pursue my previous advice, it's the DP's obligation to rectify their error and take it up with Ford as they think necessary - Streaky1) Ford, one of the largest motor companies in the world encounter an issue in 2008, and have not yet passed on this issue concerning possibly hundreds of thousands of cars to the authorised dealer network.
2) The Ford dealership got the information in 2008 and forgot about it.
My money is on 2).
Therefore I would call their bluff:
Dear Dealer Principle,
Further to the recent issue where upgrading the firmware on my Satnav has now made it irreparably inoperable without spending over £300 on a new DVD, I find it quite astonishing that Ford have never informed their authorised dealer network of this major issue as I have been verbally informed by your staff.
So that I can take up this issue with them at a very high level, I would appreciate it if you could confirm this is writing so that I can have the ammunition to make a successful complaint.
Yours,
OP
Looks as if Ford still have a 13 month design life. Sell rubbish, (possibly at a loss) and hope it lasts 13 months. Then wait for things to go wrong and regretfully have to charge the customer an outrageous price to fix the problem.
Ford are scum - cars (and everything to do with them) should last a reasonable length of time, if parts need replacing within say five years the manufacturer should pay.
Ford are scum - cars (and everything to do with them) should last a reasonable length of time, if parts need replacing within say five years the manufacturer should pay.
cptsideways said:
I bet you can buy the disk on ebay for £20
2008 discs yes but i've been told by the dealer that the new firmware will only accept 2010 discs and can't see those around on eBay etcChecking with another dealer now whether what they'd do if i'd have taken the vehicle into them with the same problem - specifically if they'd know about the required disc change.
streaky said:
JustinP1 said:
Occam's Razor - Cut through the possibilities to find the most likely answer:
1) Ford, one of the largest motor companies in the world encounter an issue in 2008, and have not yet passed on this issue concerning possibly hundreds of thousands of cars to the authorised dealer network.
2) The Ford dealership got the information in 2008 and forgot about it.
My money is on 2).
Therefore I would call their bluff:
Dear Dealer Principle,
Further to the recent issue where upgrading the firmware on my Satnav has now made it irreparably inoperable without spending over £300 on a new DVD, I find it quite astonishing that Ford have never informed their authorised dealer network of this major issue as I have been verbally informed by your staff.
So that I can take up this issue with them at a very high level, I would appreciate it if you could confirm this is writing so that I can have the ammunition to make a successful complaint.
Yours,
OP
It's not an issue between the OP and Ford, there is no contract between them. I do appreciate, though, that this is initially a mechanism to try to force the DP's hand. Nevertheless, it shouldn't be necessary and sending such a letter could cause the DP to wash their hands of the matter, saying that the OP is now dealing with Ford directly. I'd pursue my previous advice, it's the DP's obligation to rectify their error and take it up with Ford as they think necessary - Streaky1) Ford, one of the largest motor companies in the world encounter an issue in 2008, and have not yet passed on this issue concerning possibly hundreds of thousands of cars to the authorised dealer network.
2) The Ford dealership got the information in 2008 and forgot about it.
My money is on 2).
Therefore I would call their bluff:
Dear Dealer Principle,
Further to the recent issue where upgrading the firmware on my Satnav has now made it irreparably inoperable without spending over £300 on a new DVD, I find it quite astonishing that Ford have never informed their authorised dealer network of this major issue as I have been verbally informed by your staff.
So that I can take up this issue with them at a very high level, I would appreciate it if you could confirm this is writing so that I can have the ammunition to make a successful complaint.
Yours,
OP
If nothing else, this will cause them to look again more closely on the pain that an irate customer is going to be contacting Ford direct only for Ford to not only correctly inform the customer that the dealer is at fault and secondly possibly contact the service department direct for a grilling for not only getting it wrong but falsely blaming Ford.
arfur sleep said:
cptsideways said:
I bet you can buy the disk on ebay for £20
2008 discs yes but i've been told by the dealer that the new firmware will only accept 2010 discs and can't see those around on eBay etcChecking with another dealer now whether what they'd do if i'd have taken the vehicle into them with the same problem - specifically if they'd know about the required disc change.
http://www.navigationcar.com/online-shop.php
http://www.mynavishop.eu/DVD_Navigation_GPS_DENSO_...
Will these do?
streaky said:
5unny said:
Kevin VRs said:
How about this as a possible solution? Suggest to the dealer that you borrow a 2010 DVD for a few hours, copy it and return original.
+1The dealer probably knows they should have the DVD, Ford probably knows they should have the DVD. By forcing them to give you the DVD you're essentially just putting a £300 cost into someone's P&L within Ford or the dealership.
By giving the guy a COPY it doesn't cost Ford, or the Dealers, anything. (The guy will even supply his own blank disc!)
The difference with copyright is when the rights holder allows someone to make a copy.
So here's my suggestion. Point the dealer to the sale of goods act, and fitness for purpose of the original sat nav system. sale of goods suggests products shoul dhave a reasonable life, for electronics it's reasonable to assume a 6 year life. This exceeds any warranty offered, the freezing of the system is a known design problem, so product is not fit for purpose and they have to address. If the solution as documented by ford is a new firmware , they should provide you with the supporting technology to make the sat nav fit for purpose. Without the disk it's not fit for purpose, so push hard, if necessary talk to Citizens advice . You complaint is with the dealer not Ford, but ford can be a reference point, go armed with documented evidence that this is a known manufacturing issue and hence product is not fit for purpose. Good Luck
arfur sleep said:
cptsideways said:
I bet you can buy the disk on ebay for £20
2008 discs yes but i've been told by the dealer that the new firmware will only accept 2010 discs and can't see those around on eBay etcChecking with another dealer now whether what they'd do if i'd have taken the vehicle into them with the same problem - specifically if they'd know about the required disc change.
The Chrysler system prior to 08 MY has a backward use protection system and I suspect something similar is causing your problem here.
I don't see that Ford can issue an update that invalidates your nav system without an additional cost to you of £300. In the case of our system once you have used a newer disc you cannot revert to an older one. For example, if your dealer has performed the update and then loaded his 2010 disc to test the machine it will then reject your 2008 disc. I know this because we did it once. The solution? We took the hit and provided a new disc.
I don't see that Ford can issue an update that invalidates your nav system without an additional cost to you of £300. In the case of our system once you have used a newer disc you cannot revert to an older one. For example, if your dealer has performed the update and then loaded his 2010 disc to test the machine it will then reject your 2008 disc. I know this because we did it once. The solution? We took the hit and provided a new disc.
Spoke to service manager at another local dealership last night.
They confirmed that new firmware is the recommended fix for the system freeze I experienced but wouldn’t comment on whether there was any information from Ford regarding old map discs not working with the new firmware. He did say that it sounded “about right” that once the upgrade had occurred I’d then have to buy a new map disc.
I asked if he thought it was right that a fault that is repaired under warranty effectively leaves me either £315 out of pocket or with an inoperative sat nav system, he didn’t answer but gave me the number of Ford customer relations to talk to “if I was that concerned”. Only thing I really learnt from the conversation is that I won’t be using that dealer if I move away from the current one!
--
Just spoken to Ford Customer Relations and after a bit of a discussion (possibly verging on a rant on my part) they did indirectly confirm that the information given to the dealers regarding the software does not warn of this problem. They also now might have a magic 2007 map disc that will work with the new software – I believe the magic bit about it is that they use a magic marker to cross out 2010 and write 2007 on the disc label.....
They confirmed that new firmware is the recommended fix for the system freeze I experienced but wouldn’t comment on whether there was any information from Ford regarding old map discs not working with the new firmware. He did say that it sounded “about right” that once the upgrade had occurred I’d then have to buy a new map disc.
I asked if he thought it was right that a fault that is repaired under warranty effectively leaves me either £315 out of pocket or with an inoperative sat nav system, he didn’t answer but gave me the number of Ford customer relations to talk to “if I was that concerned”. Only thing I really learnt from the conversation is that I won’t be using that dealer if I move away from the current one!
--
Just spoken to Ford Customer Relations and after a bit of a discussion (possibly verging on a rant on my part) they did indirectly confirm that the information given to the dealers regarding the software does not warn of this problem. They also now might have a magic 2007 map disc that will work with the new software – I believe the magic bit about it is that they use a magic marker to cross out 2010 and write 2007 on the disc label.....
arfur sleep said:
Spoke to service manager at another local dealership last night.
They confirmed that new firmware is the recommended fix for the system freeze I experienced but wouldn’t comment on whether there was any information from Ford regarding old map discs not working with the new firmware. He did say that it sounded “about right” that once the upgrade had occurred I’d then have to buy a new map disc.
I asked if he thought it was right that a fault that is repaired under warranty effectively leaves me either £315 out of pocket or with an inoperative sat nav system, he didn’t answer but gave me the number of Ford customer relations to talk to “if I was that concerned”. Only thing I really learnt from the conversation is that I won’t be using that dealer if I move away from the current one!
--
Just spoken to Ford Customer Relations and after a bit of a discussion (possibly verging on a rant on my part) they did indirectly confirm that the information given to the dealers regarding the software does not warn of this problem. They also now might have a magic 2007 map disc that will work with the new software – I believe the magic bit about it is that they use a magic marker to cross out 2010 and write 2007 on the disc label.....
Not acceptable response. The issue is with the ford dealer not ford UK. They haven't fixed your problem under warranty, because you still don't have working sat nav. Time to get heavy handed.They confirmed that new firmware is the recommended fix for the system freeze I experienced but wouldn’t comment on whether there was any information from Ford regarding old map discs not working with the new firmware. He did say that it sounded “about right” that once the upgrade had occurred I’d then have to buy a new map disc.
I asked if he thought it was right that a fault that is repaired under warranty effectively leaves me either £315 out of pocket or with an inoperative sat nav system, he didn’t answer but gave me the number of Ford customer relations to talk to “if I was that concerned”. Only thing I really learnt from the conversation is that I won’t be using that dealer if I move away from the current one!
--
Just spoken to Ford Customer Relations and after a bit of a discussion (possibly verging on a rant on my part) they did indirectly confirm that the information given to the dealers regarding the software does not warn of this problem. They also now might have a magic 2007 map disc that will work with the new software – I believe the magic bit about it is that they use a magic marker to cross out 2010 and write 2007 on the disc label.....
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