Advised to drive dangerously (in writing) by the Police.
Discussion
surveyor said:
Have a confusing roundabout in Doncaster....
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4872183,-1.09268...
All makes sense - apart from the right turning lane, where there is no right exit from the roundabout....
The junctions on that whole section of road from the M18 to Rossington Bridge are badly designed IMO, especially trying to follow the route from Mount Pleasant to Bessacarrhttps://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4872183,-1.09268...
All makes sense - apart from the right turning lane, where there is no right exit from the roundabout....
Edited by RATATTAK on Saturday 30th June 13:20
surveyor said:
Have a confusing roundabout in Doncaster....
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4872183,-1.09268...
All makes sense - apart from the right turning lane, where there is no right exit from the roundabout....
The junctions on that whole section of road from the M18 to Rossington Bridge are badly designed IMO, especially trying to follow the route from Mount Pleasant to Bessacarrhttps://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4872183,-1.09268...
All makes sense - apart from the right turning lane, where there is no right exit from the roundabout....
Edited by RATATTAK on Saturday 30th June 13:22
Jediworrier said:
Marcellus said:
someone was trying to overtake someone!
Oh dear!It could have been the police car trying to overtake (or undertake) you, in which case he was the t
t!Jediworrier said:
woodyTVR said:
I think you'll find if you read my post again I'm agreeing with you.
I think I was questioning how the copper was technically right?If the arrow had the word ‘only’ under it then it’s a different story. He’s still a grade A t
t though and should have expected the situation to occur.Marcellus said:
JNW1 said:
The OP said he was at the front of the right lane waiting to enter the roundabout with the police car in the left lane;
but that's not what the OP has said, he has said he was in the right lane and the other car was in the left as they entered the roundabout.One vehicle had to be effectively overtaking the other as at 50m? before the roundabout they were line astern... either the car was in front or the van; they could not have been side by side!
Bottom line is, there's an arrow on the left lane to indicate it's for turning left only and the driver of the police car chose to ignore it. That doesn't excuse the OP changing lanes on the roundabout without looking (if that's indeed what he did) but IMO the primary reason there was an incident was because of the actions of the driver of the police car; he follows the road markings and there isn't a problem, end of.
JNW1 said:
Ok, what the OP said was "when an opportunity arose to enter the roundabout" which to me at least implied he was either waiting at the give-way at the front of the queue in the right lane or was moving slowly in that queue and whilst looking for a gap in the traffic on the roundabout to slot into. I don't know where your 50m comes from - or the idea one vehicle had to be effectively overtaking the other - but it's really all just speculation about hypothetical scenarios.
Bottom line is, there's an arrow on the left lane to indicate it's for turning left only and the driver of the police car chose to ignore it. That doesn't excuse the OP changing lanes on the roundabout without looking (if that's indeed what he did) but IMO the primary reason there was an incident was because of the actions of the driver of the police car; he follows the road markings and there isn't a problem, end of.
The reason why the police car may be more culpable, and why the wind the situation back 50m may be useful, is if the police car was behind the OP before the single carriageway widened (at c80ft from the entry to the roundabout) and seeing that the OP had taken the right lane then chose to take the left, ignore the road marking (which we've established isn't an offence) and put himself into the blind spot of the van to and be shocked when the van didn't see him then the police car was driving like a tBottom line is, there's an arrow on the left lane to indicate it's for turning left only and the driver of the police car chose to ignore it. That doesn't excuse the OP changing lanes on the roundabout without looking (if that's indeed what he did) but IMO the primary reason there was an incident was because of the actions of the driver of the police car; he follows the road markings and there isn't a problem, end of.
t!However, if the OP was behind the police car and seeing the police car taking the left hand lane assumed (not unreasonably) that they were taking the 1st exit so thought he woudl take the right hand lane for the 2nd exit, (not unreasonably) then assuming the police car wasn't there as they'd taken the 1st lane positioned himself to take the 2nd exit then the OP may be more culpable as he was aware of the other car, assumed he'd taken teh 1st exit but didn't check.
Both entirely feasible but in one the Police car was more culpable and the other the OP....... all comes back to when on the single carriageway who was in front of who.
garyhun said:
gareth_r said:
Is the wilful misunderstanding displayed on this thread, and others like it, trolling, or just really poor reading and comprehension? 
The signage is rubbish, but are you really telling me that, if you arrived at the roundabout in the left lane, as the police did, you would think that you could drive straight on without being very cautious about what the vehicles in the right lane were doing? I don't think you would. You'd think you were in the wrong lane, and you'd either turn immediately left (which is what I'd do, unless there was very little traffic), or you'd make it very obvious to the other drivers that you'd screwed up and you'd appreciate it if they would let you into the correct lane (by signalling right and moving slowly).
The police driver reacted like those civilian drivers who make a mistake, then immediately swear and gesticulate at whichever unfortunate was almost a victim of their carelessness.
As for the arse-covering follow-up letter... words fail me.
EDIT:
Looking at this picture, I imagine that the intention is to ensure that traffic for the A22 London/A27 Eastbourne isn't held up by the queue for the A27 Brighton.
Perhaps the police would be better employed writing to the council(?) about the "confusing" signs, rather than writing misguided letters that attempt to excuse their officers' poor driving and heavy-handed reactions.
Spot on.The signage is rubbish, but are you really telling me that, if you arrived at the roundabout in the left lane, as the police did, you would think that you could drive straight on without being very cautious about what the vehicles in the right lane were doing? I don't think you would. You'd think you were in the wrong lane, and you'd either turn immediately left (which is what I'd do, unless there was very little traffic), or you'd make it very obvious to the other drivers that you'd screwed up and you'd appreciate it if they would let you into the correct lane (by signalling right and moving slowly).
The police driver reacted like those civilian drivers who make a mistake, then immediately swear and gesticulate at whichever unfortunate was almost a victim of their carelessness.
As for the arse-covering follow-up letter... words fail me.
EDIT:
Looking at this picture, I imagine that the intention is to ensure that traffic for the A22 London/A27 Eastbourne isn't held up by the queue for the A27 Brighton.
Perhaps the police would be better employed writing to the council(?) about the "confusing" signs, rather than writing misguided letters that attempt to excuse their officers' poor driving and heavy-handed reactions.
Edited by gareth_r on Friday 29th June 15:01
Given the aggression shown by the Police driver, it's quite possible they missed the left turn arrow altogether by not paying attention or by driving too close to the car in front.
Regardless of fault, the simple option for the Police driver would have been to filter in behind the OP's car rather than making a huge issue out of it. That aggression on the road and the subsequent talking to are the issue I would raise with the Police. Don't extrapolate some rubbish about being forced to drive dangerously.
Edited by LeoSayer on Saturday 30th June 18:22
HantsRat said:
Post the letter. If it really does tell you to drive dangerously, I will personally donate £50 to a charity of your choice.
The OP has already posted the letter on page 8 of this thread and suffice to say your £50 is safe! Having said that the advice given - take the left lane to go straight-on at the roundabout even the road markings say that lane is for turning left only - did seem a bit strange.... Nanook said:
JNW1 said:
The OP has already posted the letter on page 8 of this thread and suffice to say your £50 is safe! Having said that the advice given - take the left lane to go straight-on at the roundabout even the road markings say that lane is for turning left only - did seem a bit strange....
Not really what the thread title says, is it!?
RATATTAK said:
surveyor said:
Have a confusing roundabout in Doncaster....
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4872183,-1.09268...
All makes sense - apart from the right turning lane, where there is no right exit from the roundabout....
The junctions on that whole section of road from the M18 to Rossington Bridge are badly designed IMO, especially trying to follow the route from Mount Pleasant to Bessacarrhttps://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4872183,-1.09268...
All makes sense - apart from the right turning lane, where there is no right exit from the roundabout....
Edited by RATATTAK on Saturday 30th June 13:20
JNW1 said:
Having said that the advice given - take the left lane to go straight-on at the roundabout even the road markings say that lane is for turning left only - did seem a bit strange....
the road markings do not say left turn only, they are not compulsory & merely advisory. I think that we can all agree that it is badly designed, though.
Edited by Heidfirst on Friday 6th July 11:29
RATATTAK said:
surveyor said:
Have a confusing roundabout in Doncaster....
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4872183,-1.09268...
All makes sense - apart from the right turning lane, where there is no right exit from the roundabout....
The junctions on that whole section of road from the M18 to Rossington Bridge are badly designed IMO, especially trying to follow the route from Mount Pleasant to Bessacarrhttps://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4872183,-1.09268...
All makes sense - apart from the right turning lane, where there is no right exit from the roundabout....
Edited by RATATTAK on Saturday 30th June 13:22
JNW1 said:
The OP has already posted the letter on page 8 of this thread and suffice to say your £50 is safe! Having said that the advice given - take the left lane to go straight-on at the roundabout even the road markings say that lane is for turning left only - did seem a bit strange....
Two out of three times I use a local roundabout I see someone take the left lane (marked with an arrow, just like the OP's case), then move across to go straight on. No one beeps in protest, I haven't seen any road rage; it just happens and people accept it as 'one of those things'. OP's letter says much the same, i.e. using the left lane isn't a complete no-no as the markings are advisory.
wc98 said:
gareth_r said:
Is the wilful misunderstanding displayed on this thread, and others like it, trolling, or just really poor reading and comprehension?
The signage is rubbish, but are you really telling me that, if you arrived at the roundabout in the left lane, as the police did, you would think that you could drive straight on without being very cautious about what the vehicles in the right lane were doing? I don't think you would. You'd think you were in the wrong lane, and you'd either turn immediately left (which is what I'd do, unless there was very little traffic), or you'd make it very obvious to the other drivers that you'd screwed up and you'd appreciate it if they would let you into the correct lane (by signalling right and moving slowly).
The police driver reacted like those civilian drivers who make a mistake, then immediately swear and gesticulate at whichever unfortunate was almost a victim of their carelessness.
As for the arse-covering follow-up letter... words fail me.
EDIT:
Looking at this picture, I imagine that the intention is to ensure that traffic for the A22 London/A27 Eastbourne isn't held up by the queue for the A27 Brighton.
Perhaps the police would be better employed writing to the council(?) about the "confusing" signs, rather than writing misguided letters that attempt to excuse their officers' poor driving and heavy-handed reactions.
i am glad i am not the only one that was thinking along those lines, although i assumed the reading comprehension problem was my own and i was missing something. the fact the op said the police car was on red cross hatched area suggests they chanced their arm with an undertake that didn't come off. having a go at the op instead of accepting they made a mistake is a bit off, imo.The signage is rubbish, but are you really telling me that, if you arrived at the roundabout in the left lane, as the police did, you would think that you could drive straight on without being very cautious about what the vehicles in the right lane were doing? I don't think you would. You'd think you were in the wrong lane, and you'd either turn immediately left (which is what I'd do, unless there was very little traffic), or you'd make it very obvious to the other drivers that you'd screwed up and you'd appreciate it if they would let you into the correct lane (by signalling right and moving slowly).
The police driver reacted like those civilian drivers who make a mistake, then immediately swear and gesticulate at whichever unfortunate was almost a victim of their carelessness.
As for the arse-covering follow-up letter... words fail me.
EDIT:
Looking at this picture, I imagine that the intention is to ensure that traffic for the A22 London/A27 Eastbourne isn't held up by the queue for the A27 Brighton.
Perhaps the police would be better employed writing to the council(?) about the "confusing" signs, rather than writing misguided letters that attempt to excuse their officers' poor driving and heavy-handed reactions.
Edited by gareth_r on Friday 29th June 15:01
My interpretation contrary to some is that the OP didn't change lanes on the roundabout but entered and headed straight for the left of the two circulatory lanes, thinking that the 'police' vehicle would be taking the first exit but not observing that they hadn't. Perhaps understand if traffic from his right is busy and he had to 'find a gap'.
The 'police' driver assumed (lol assume) that the OP would enter the island and go straight for the right hand circulatory lane, maybe they were using him as cover from traffic from the right. Clearly when he didn't go for the lane they'd assumed it would appear to them as if he'd cut them up, though imo the root cause is their piss poor driving.
Then to compound that with road rage and not identifying themselves properly if they felt the need for words of advice is also very poor. One hopes the training they were heading for was a driving course.
Pity they are unidentifiable.
Still big question, OP in the same circumstances would you do exactly the same or has the whole thing been a learning experience? I think I might, knowing what we know, head over to the lane next to the island if someone at the front of the left entry lane was not clearly positioned to head off up the first exit. Then if clear to make the left to MaccyD change lanes and exit, otherwise if there was an arse like the 'police' driver keep going make a full circuit and have another go. Still hindsight though.
Council or whoever responsible for signing needs a kick up the arse.
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