is accelerating quick an offence

[Flat in Fifth]

May I ask in all this discussion about causation factors etc. that we avoid talking at cross purposes by referring to

a) What went wrong as Precipitating factors

and

b) Why it went wrong as Causation factors.

Thank you. As you were.........

FiF

[granville]

I can't imagine there are too many PHers for whom rapid acceleration is not an inviolate part of their core being and is a creed adhered to on a regular basis.

After all, that's certainly what I like about the place, jammed solid with unapologetically hooncentric individuals who (imhe [where e=experience]) practice 'safe speed' with consumate aplomb.

Hurrah.

[gone]

ca092003 said:

Yes the ones who are "advanced" are somehow more knowledgable about road safety than the older "class one" guys. At least that is how it appears here on PH.

You assume a great deal
I will give you a little insight ca!

I obtained a class 1, 87 mark in November 1983 at Essex Police driving School Chelmsford (regional driving school at the time 4 week course)

I obtained a class 1, 90 mark in March 1987 at Maidstone Kent Police driving school (also regional driving school 2 week refresher course)

I obtained a class 1, 90 mark in May 1991 at Banbury (regional school) TVP driving school 2 week refresher.

In 1994, I changed jobs. I did not get a refresher again until July last year 2003 at TVP Banbury (regional school) 2 weeks where I passed the advanced assessment (no mark given)

I think you suggest in your posts that those Bib on PH are wet behind the ears. You assume a lot. Some are young in service, some are not so young in service.

Regardless of the qualification stakes, the experience is about having been to and dealt with all manner of Policing issues around not only roads and road traffic law, but dealing with people and law in general.

It would be nice to hear what you actually base your blinkered opinions on but having requested an insight into your profession/job/knowledge it still remains a mystery I won't hold my breath, but carry on with the slights and insults by all means!

[Dibble]

gone:

[ca092003]

gone said:

ca092003 said: Yes the ones who are "advanced" are somehow more knowledgable about road safety than the older "class one" guys. At least that is how it appears here on PH. You assume a great deal I will give you a little insight ca! I obtained a class 1, 87 mark in November 1983 at Essex Police driving School Chelmsford (regional driving school at the time 4 week course) I obtained a class 1, 90 mark in March 1987 at Maidstone Kent Police driving school (also regional driving school 2 week refresher course) I obtained a class 1, 90 mark in May 1991 at Banbury (regional school) TVP driving school 2 week refresher. In 1994, I changed jobs. I did not get a refresher again until July last year 2003 at TVP Banbury (regional school) 2 weeks where I passed the advanced assessment (no mark given) I think you suggest in your posts that those Bib on PH are wet behind the ears. You assume a lot. Some are young in service, some are not so young in service. Regardless of the qualification stakes, the experience is about having been to and dealt with all manner of Policing issues around not only roads and road traffic law, but dealing with people and law in general. It would be nice to hear what you actually base your blinkered opinions on but having requested an insight into your profession/job/knowledge it still remains a mystery I won't hold my breath, but carry on with the slights and insults by all means!

Actually, gone, I wasn't referring to you. Does the cap fit?

[Dibble]

ca092003 said:

Actually, gone, I wasn't referring to you. Does the cap fit?

Bodyswerve.

How about actually answering the direct question?

What expereince, skills or knowledge do YOU actually have in Road Policing matters, such as the investigation of collisions, be they fatal or otherwise?

[not_holding_breath_either]

[ca092003]

Dibble said:

ca092003 said: Actually, gone, I wasn't referring to you. Does the cap fit? Bodyswerve. How about actually answering the direct question? What expereince, skills or knowledge do YOU actually have in Road Policing matters, such as the investigation of collisions, be they fatal or otherwise? [not_holding_breath_either]

Let us just remind ourselves of how we got into this current "them" and "me" situation. I asked StreetCop whether there was an exemption for BiB's to cross DWL's. I ask him for a link to the legislation. He says there isn't any. He gives me a link to the ACPO guidance. Eventually someone turns up the link to a Statutory Instrument and claims that clause H) permits this. I still don't think so but am continuing to researh the issue.

Now 'cos I've upset StreetCop he has got mate Dibble and Gone to now beat me into submission (no suprises there, I suppose).

My skills, qualifications are irrlevevant. Do you seriously suggest that you only raise points or issues on policing matters? I am sure I could trawl through PH and find BiB's moaning about call centres, political correctness, main dealers or any number of topics. Do you consider that because you don't have in depth knowledge of a certain industry there is NOTHING that you can add to the issue?

I know you guys have to deal with scrotes all day long and I am sure it is hard. But let us put this into some sort of perspective. I want to see road collisions fall by properly identifying the things that cause accidents. Why can't we have a full land frank debate about that without this patronising attitude that you know guys know everything because of the role that you fulfill.

Paul from Safepseed hit the nail on the head. TrafPol have been excluded from Government road safety policy. Why?

[gone]

ca092003 said:

Paul from Safepseed hit the nail on the head. TrafPol have been excluded from Government road safety policy. Why?

Because they are expensive and the public demand action from the Police on the fact their homes and cars are robbed and they are robbed in the street.

Specialist traffic knowledge is not a main priority when it is a lot cheaper to stand a box on a pole every 600 meters which does not require a salary or a pension after 30 years service.

If everyone is physically forced to slow down because of fear of losing the privelage to drive, then when they do crash into each other, as they do, oh so very regularly every single day, the results will be less costly because the impact speeds will be lower both in human and collateral terms!

[Dibble]

ca092003 said:

Now 'cos I've upset StreetCop he has got mate Dibble and Gone to now beat me into submission (no suprises there, I suppose).

A pathetic, sad, sorry, cheap shot.

ca092003 said:

My skills, qualifications are irrlevevant.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I would be interested to know what your experience in RDIM investigations is the fact that you seemed to take great pleasure in accusings SC of not being able to investiagte a fatal properly, as he only had 2 minutes in the job. I suspect you may have misunderstood him, and thought he was anj accident/collision investigator, rather than OIC. The difference has been explained to you, yet you still seem content not to let us know what you base your opinion on in relation to this matter. You appear to be quite prepared to repeat your questions as nauseam when they are not answered, but appear unwilling to answer direct questions put to you. Afraid to admit what you perceive as a weakness?

caohIreallycan'tbebotheredwithallthosenumbers said:

Why can't we have a full land frank debate about that without this patronising attitude that you know guys know everything because of the role that you fulfill.

I don't mean to patronise you - you know, to talk in an oversimplistic way, and explain every last detail to you.

[ca092003]

gone said:

ca092003 said: Paul from Safepseed hit the nail on the head. TrafPol have been excluded from Government road safety policy. Why? Because they are expensive and the public demand action from the Police on the fact their homes and cars are robbed and they are robbed in the street. Specialist traffic knowledge is not a main priority when it is a lot cheaper to stand a box on a pole every 600 meters which does not require a salary or a pension after 30 years service. If everyone is physically forced to slow down because of fear of losing the privelage to drive, then when they do crash into each other, as they do, oh so very regularly every single day, the results will be less costly because the impact speeds will be lower both in human and collateral terms!

OK, here is a simple analogy for you to work with.

If you could remove only 1 item from a scenario and you have the choice of:

a) driver making a judgement error and pulling out in front of another vehicle
b) excess speed

Which one would you remove and why?

[Dibble]

ca092003 said:

OK, here is a simple analogy for you to work with. If you could remove only 1 item from a scenario and you have the choice of: a) driver making a judgement error and pulling out in front of another vehicle b) excess speed Which one would you remove and why?

Remove (a), no collision at this time, unless the other driver makes an error

Remove (b), the other driver would have more time to react to driver (a)

Either/or, really.

[silverback mike]

ca092003 said:

Now 'cos I've upset StreetCop he has got mate Dibble and Gone to now beat me into submission (no suprises there, I suppose).

Can I wade in as well.
Is this a motoring forum for enjoyment of all things motoring related or a place to victimise and have pious pokes at people.

We all like a good debate, but is this stretching it a bit far?

The initial debate was over a solid white line. We have the legislation (which you are pondering over)c/o dibble.

We bib's on here are all pretty experienced and certainly not wet behind the ears. Some more so than others. I (and so do the others) post on here to try to help, not to get a verbal doofing.

Ca, for gawds sake, lets take it back to an after work motoring forum, not somewhere to score points and nail bib's to the wall.

Your other post re kids being taken up to the station was great, advise requested, I stuck my oar in hopefully to good effect.

White lines, em, but don't smack anything head on. Lets keep these forums fun......

I'm off to kick the cat......for all the pc lentilists, I wouldn't condone cat torture....

[TripleS]

Derestrictor said:

I can't imagine there are too many PHers for whom rapid acceleration is not an inviolate part of their core being and is a creed adhered to on a regular basis. After all, that's certainly what I like about the place, jammed solid with unapologetically hooncentric individuals who (imhe [where e=experience]) practice 'safe speed' with consumate aplomb. Hurrah.

Ah well Derestrictor, while I do have some experience, and try to practice safe speed with whatever aplomb I can muster, I regret to say that so far as acceleration is concerned things are pretty poor, and that's putting it mildly.

Perhaps I'm here under false pretences. Shall I resign now?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Mad Moggie]

silverback mike said:

White lines, em, but don't smack anything head on. Lets keep these forums fun......

I like well balanced BiBs .......

silverback mike said:

I'm off to kick the cat......for all the pc lentilists, I wouldn't condone cat torture....

What was I saying ... about balanced BiBs.....

would love to torture blokes in talivans though - and those blokes in combat gear hiding behind hedges armed with hair dryers though And all other people who try to spoil my fun on the road....