Pulled over for tints-Getting 6 points for invalid insurance

[98elise]

Foss62 said:

ConnectionError said:

NikBartlett said:

If you purchase SDP and commuting but don't use the vehicle for commuting then are you also in breach of the insurance T&C's ?

Explain in more detail.

Adding commuting sometimes makes the insurance cheaper (difficult to know why?). Presumably if you knew this for a particular insurer and consequently added commuting even though you obviously weren’t going to do it, it would be exactly the same as any other deliberate misrepresentation.

No it wouldn’t. You're not obliged to commute, you're covered to commute. Same with all the other things you are covered for (fire, theft etc). Comprehensive can be cheaper than third party, but you're not obliged to claim.

Assuming not trolling I wonder how some people on this thread cope with genuinely complex stuff.

[98elise]

jm doc said:

martinbiz said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

jm doc said:

I would argue that using your car for a one off trip to work because your regular car (which is insured for commute) is not available, is using it for domestic purpose. (especially if both cars have the same insurer).

I would also argue that driving to work is a domestic use. Domestic: "of or related to the home or family". I think travelling to work to earn money is a fundamental part of home and family. The key phrase in the definition being "or related to" which gives it a very broad meaning.

If travelling to work to earn money is a fundamental part of home and family, so covered by domestic use, then so is working as a mini cab driver, using your car for fast food delivery, or as a courier driver.

You can argue whatever the hell you like. Doesn't mean anyone has to take your nonsense seriously.

Indded, that post was a load of Doctor Bo**ox

Not half as much bo**ox as his post

I guess you find big words difficult?

You're not coming across as clever as you think you are.

[Ronzx6r]

why would you pick that option anyway, its rarely any cheaper

[MustangGT]

Foss62 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Ken_Code said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Well there's your mistake. Why would you ask people, people are idiots. If you're driving to work, even once a year, on that day you are commuting to the office in your car. You are either covered for that or you aren't.

That’s not the standard meaning of the word commute, it connotes regularity.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/englis...

And what does regular mean. Haleys comet is regular, once every 76 years. If you commute, if you want to be covered on the one day that you do commute, you need commuting cover. Or call your insurer just before the day in question to add it for the day. And the fee will probably be more than the annual extra cost.

“Regular” implies some sort of pattern, so if this was ever seriously tested in court you might expect the pattern to be explored.
You can’t commute for “one day”, however anything that creates a pattern of visits would justify the insurer’s use of the term. So - going to the office every day, once a month, even just for every five year work anniversary presentation is “commuting”, but I doubt if an insurer could claim a home-worker picking up a new laptop from reception was on a regular visit. The onus would presumably be on the insurer to prove that the insured was a commuter?

Commuting is defined as travelling to work on a regular basis. Therefore if you work in an office and travel there everyday you are commuting every day. If you use the train/bus/bike/feet most days it does not alter the fact that on the one day you used your car you were commuting. It is just that you were commuting on the other days using a different method of transport.

[Davie_GLA]

Good luck but I don’t think this will end as well as you think.

Also, was the reason for the stop your windows? Tints that you knew were illegal but cracked on with anyway rather than wait on the correct material being available?

Dare say you would have been cool if it weren’t for the tints but hindsight and all that. Good luck.

[XJSJohn]

Sheepshanks said:

XJSJohn said:

Apologies if someone else asked / answered this question but the thread just made me think.

I work from home so only have SD&P insurance,

Occasionally (2 times a month maximum) i go to the office for ad-hoc meetings and will drive.

does this count as "commuting" ?

My employment contract does have me based at an office, but this is for HR records, IT accounts and to tie assets (like laptop to) rather than a desk for me to be based at.

Do you claim mileage for the journey to the office? If so, you probably need Class 1 biz use.

For most people, commuting and class 1 don’t add much and remove all doubt. We have Class 1 on all our cars - our grown up “kids” have Class 1 on wife’s car in case they ever need to use it as a backup to their own.

My Q seems to have raised a flurry of questions / comments so randomly picking this one to add context.

1 - it not regular or routine travel, hence not commuting, but it is traveling to work one or two times a month maximum.
2 - i do not claim the milage, nor am i travelling to a client site (its to the train station then either north to the Brum office or south to the London office)
3 - Never thought to add commuting to any policy as always assumed that i wasn't based on what the definition of commuting was as i understood it. Think will also check to see how much more it is. (this was never an issue when we lived in Singapore as you were either TPF&T or Fully comp and that was that)

Anyway, will give my insurers a tinkle to confirm their interpretation of this one.

Edited by XJSJohn on Wednesday 22 May 14:22

[trails]

Bigends said:

I do some volunteering so added business to my policy (also required if I wanted to claim mileage)

I'll ping my insurer and find out unless he had already read this as he posts on here...Mr M, are you out there?

[Pica-Pica]

trails said:

Bigends said:

I do some volunteering so added business to my policy (also required if I wanted to claim mileage)

I'll ping my insurer and find out unless he had already read this as he posts on here...Mr M, are you out there?

This is what the ABI say and list.
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publicat...

Note the comment in the document ‘where payment does not exceed the HMRC mileage rates in force at that time’. So reimbursement at or below those rates are OK

Edited by Pica-Pica on Wednesday 22 May 15:14

[Alex_225]

E-bmw said:

Yes, it counts as commuting.

If it didn't then the drive to the company car park wouldn't count as you walk the last 50 yards.

But to be pedantic, the car park is the work car park and therefore the place of work. The train station is 20 miles away from my place of work.

Ultimately if you got pulled over in a similar manner to the OP and was asked where you're headed. You either say, 'To the train station' or 'To work'. Depending on which you answer, determines if you're covered on your insurance.

[The Gauge]

I’d suggest that driving your car for the purpose of getting to work and back home would be classed as ‘to and from work’ even if you don’t drive to your actual workplace and instead use a park & ride etc.

Insurance policy commuting is normally to a single work address. If you occasionally have to travel instead to another work address such as for training etc then you normally need business cover adding.

Edited by The Gauge on Wednesday 22 May 16:12

[Sheepshanks]

Alex_225 said:

But to be pedantic, the car park is the work car park and therefore the place of work. The train station is 20 miles away from my place of work.

Ultimately if you got pulled over in a similar manner to the OP and was asked where you're headed. You either say, 'To the train station' or 'To work'. Depending on which you answer, determines if you're covered on your insurance.

Also to be pedantic, ultimately it's not what you say that determines whether you’re covered or not!

[911hope]

Sheepshanks said:

Alex_225 said:

But to be pedantic, the car park is the work car park and therefore the place of work. The train station is 20 miles away from my place of work.

Ultimately if you got pulled over in a similar manner to the OP and was asked where you're headed. You either say, 'To the train station' or 'To work'. Depending on which you answer, determines if you're covered on your insurance.

Also to be pedantic, ultimately it's not what you say that determines whether you’re covered or not!

Indeed..You are covered or not.

Make a false statement in a claim situation and it is fraud.

Much easier to buy the right policy having read the terms of cover.

[jm doc]

98elise said:

jm doc said:

martinbiz said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

jm doc said:

I would argue that using your car for a one off trip to work because your regular car (which is insured for commute) is not available, is using it for domestic purpose. (especially if both cars have the same insurer).

I would also argue that driving to work is a domestic use. Domestic: "of or related to the home or family". I think travelling to work to earn money is a fundamental part of home and family. The key phrase in the definition being "or related to" which gives it a very broad meaning.

If travelling to work to earn money is a fundamental part of home and family, so covered by domestic use, then so is working as a mini cab driver, using your car for fast food delivery, or as a courier driver.

You can argue whatever the hell you like. Doesn't mean anyone has to take your nonsense seriously.

Indded, that post was a load of Doctor Bo**ox

Not half as much bo**ox as his post

I guess you find big words difficult?

You're not coming across as clever as you think you are.

If people want to be gratuitously offensive to someone who has merely expressed an opinion then I'm happy to be gratuitously offensive in return. It's not trying to be clever.

Unlike you, trying to be "clever" butting in to make gratuitously offensive comments to someone who hasn't even responded to you. Really weird but if it makes you feel big then good luck. Just don't expect a thank you in return......

[trails]

Pica-Pica said:

This is what the ABI say and list.
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publicat...

Note the comment in the document ‘where payment does not exceed the HMRC mileage rates in force at that time’. So reimbursement at or below those rates are OK

Edited by Pica-Pica on Wednesday 22 May 15:14

Neither myself or the wife claim anything back so looks like no chnage required for us. Thanks

[rscott]

This reminded me to check the cover on one of our cars - turns out I've got SDP+C and business use for myself, but my partner only has SDP. Now trying to get eSure to amend it..
So far, in a 15 minute live chat, they've called me by the wrong name, offered to add it, but can't tell me how much it'll cost, only that there will be a charge...

[jm doc]

911hope said:

jm doc said:

Drawweight said:

I’d love to see you convince any insurance company court that travelling to your place of work is domestic.

It flies in the face of every piece of advice given by legal minds over the years.

Yes some insurers include commuting in an SDP policy but that is purely their business model and in no way undermines the original principle.

Well done. Completely contradicted yourself in 3 sentences. That's quite an achievement even by PH standards!

Care to outline how those 3 sentences are contradictory?

See above. Poster makes a categorical statement then immediately contradicts it by qualifying it, thus rendering it incorrect.

Some insurers accept that it is domestic.

[r5kdt]

If you didnt tell the insurance co about the modifications (tints) chances are you were uninsured for that too... Lucky car wasnt seized

Edited by r5kdt on Wednesday 22 May 16:46

[Alex_225]

Sheepshanks said:

Alex_225 said:

But to be pedantic, the car park is the work car park and therefore the place of work. The train station is 20 miles away from my place of work.

Ultimately if you got pulled over in a similar manner to the OP and was asked where you're headed. You either say, 'To the train station' or 'To work'. Depending on which you answer, determines if you're covered on your insurance.

Also to be pedantic, ultimately it's not what you say that determines whether you’re covered or not!

I wasn't trying to be a d!ck on that just a jokey comment.

I know what you mean, technically you're not covered commuting, assuming that is explicitly stated in your policy. But what I mean is that if the OP had simply said, 'going to the shops' for example, literally no one can prove otherwise.

Despite it technically being fraud as someone rightly posted after your comment. I can to an understand how it may be morally a bit questionable how someone who doesn't do regular commutes wouldn't opt for that on their policy. Assuming it could make a big difference on the premium. I think perhaps commuting 5 days a week, substantial miles and at peak times may be taking the p!ss somewhat but a last minute trip to a train station once ever few months is slightly different. I work from home but I got a lift to the station this morning, so I didn't commute but the car was at the same risk as if I was.

I'm waffling now but I know what I mean! haha

[mcpoot]

jm doc said:

911hope said:

jm doc said:

Drawweight said:

I’d love to see you convince any insurance company court that travelling to your place of work is domestic.

It flies in the face of every piece of advice given by legal minds over the years.

Yes some insurers include commuting in an SDP policy but that is purely their business model and in no way undermines the original principle.

Well done. Completely contradicted yourself in 3 sentences. That's quite an achievement even by PH standards!

Care to outline how those 3 sentences are contradictory?

See above. Poster makes a categorical statement then immediately contradicts it by qualifying it, thus rendering it incorrect.

Some insurers accept that it is domestic.

Including cover for Commuting on a SDP policy does not mean what you are implying.
You need to work on your English comprehension and use of logic.

[Monkeylegend]

jm doc said:

Some insurers accept that it is domestic.

Which ones, would be useful to know.