Ask a Highways England Traffic Officer anything

[techguyone]

Ah the K word, flipping KPI's everywhere these days (Key Performance Indicator)

So who sets these up in the first instance seems they have some stuff to answer, maybe roll him up next

[anonymous-user]

MaisiesDad said:

Why do you sit behind stranded vehicles for hours waiting for recovery truck (witnessed one here on the M1 only two weeks ago and it was nearly two hours) instead of hooking up a rope and dragging it off to safety.

One of the biggest concerts about HA/HE setting up was from the recovery industry that it would lose them money. The HS is "supposed" to be a place of safety.
How far would you recover it 1,2,3,6,9 miles to the next junction which may be in the middle of nowhere with nothing around, be an intersection or just have nowhere suitable to leave a vehicle, all done on a tow strap as the HE don't have the balls/wit to use a straight folding tow bar.
And just whilst you are doing that it's quite possible a live Lane rtc or incident comes in, then what do you do ?
As stated HETO's 1st priority is supposed to be to keep traffic moving (after safety), many HETO's have and do try to help by stretching procedures but as in all organisations there are some complete spanners (but obviously not in the vehicles to help change a wheel )

[Flibbertygibbet]

Willy Nilly said:

Motorway roads works. Mile after chuffin' mile of 50 limits to protect the workforce.

Sooo, exactly how are the workforce getting hit by traffic?

Hit by people who decide the 50 limit and lane closures don’t apply to them. That and narrow lanes require a corresponding drop in the speed limit. This is in the Chapter 8 manual or TSRGD, one of the road designers will know more about this. You may however have noticed recently some trials for 55 and 60mph speeds through roadworks.


Speaking of which. RedX enforcement is on the way as soon as the HADECS3 cameras get the required type approval which is expected in the first few months of this year. If you get letters now you will have been pinged by an ANPR camera temporarily strapped to the enforcement gantry.

This also includes the MS4s in all lane running zones that display a RedX with wickets. You may have noticed they have had software upgrades recently to include red flashing lanterns which make the Red X fully enforceable.

Edited by Flibbertygibbet on Sunday 7th January 15:49

[Register1]

BossHogg said:

I spotted a load of these types of topics and jumped on the bandwagon. Whether I reply is another matter.

Hi BossHogg,

What part of the country do you patrol?

R1

[BossHogg]

I'm in the northwest, top of the M6.

[Willy Nilly]

Flibbertygibbet said:

Willy Nilly said:

Motorway roads works. Mile after chuffin' mile of 50 limits to protect the workforce.

Sooo, exactly how are the workforce getting hit by traffic?

Hit by people who decide the 50 limit and lane closures don’t apply to them. That and narrow lanes require a corresponding drop in the speed limit. This is in the Chapter 8 manual or TSRGD, one of the road designers will know more about this. You may however have noticed recently some trials for 55 and 60mph speeds through roadworks.


Speaking of which. RedX enforcement is on the way as soon as the HADECS3 cameras get the required type approval which is expected in the first few months of this year. If you get letters now you will have been pinged by an ANPR camera temporarily strapped to the enforcement gantry.

This also includes the MS4s in all lane running zones that display a RedX with wickets. You may have noticed they have had software upgrades recently to include red flashing lanterns which make the Red X fully enforceable.

Edited by Flibbertygibbet on Sunday 7th January 15:49

The speed of the traffic won't either stop a person in the road works getting hit if they are under the speed limit, or make it more likely that they will get hit if they are over the speed limit. So I'll ask again, how are the people in road works getting hit by traffic?

Thanks.

[BossHogg]

By drivers not paying attention, not driving to the conditions, or road workers not paying attention or loss of awareness to their immediate surroundings.

[Willy Nilly]

BossHogg said:

By drivers not paying attention, not driving to the conditions, or road workers not paying attention or loss of awareness to their immediate surroundings.

Ok, we're getting somewhere. So, there is fault on both sides. When those hefty looking concrete barriers are used, are the people working on site still getting hit?

Strikes me that it is not the speed that is the issue, more that one or both parties are where they shouldn't be.

[Flibbertygibbet]

Willy Nilly said:

The speed of the traffic won't either stop a person in the road works getting hit if they are under the speed limit, or make it more likely that they will get hit if they are over the speed limit. So I'll ask again, how are the people in road works getting hit by traffic?

Thanks.

If you are after a specific answer, are you specifically referring to long term roadworks with a reduced speed limit and variogard and average speed check enforcement which are all there to support a dynamic and more dangerous carriageway layout, or are you referring to short term overnight roadworks where there will be a reduced speed limit on the lead in to the works when the advance signage and cones are being set out?

The different sets of works have different hazards

[Taita]

Narrow lanes meaning 50mph for the entire stretch, even if no workers or work occuring on that stretch is especially frustrating.

[Sgt Bilko]

Willy Nilly said:

BossHogg said:

By drivers not paying attention, not driving to the conditions, or road workers not paying attention or loss of awareness to their immediate surroundings.

Ok, we're getting somewhere. So, there is fault on both sides. When those hefty looking concrete barriers are used, are the people working on site still getting hit?

Strikes me that it is not the speed that is the issue, more that one or both parties are where they shouldn't be.

Those hefty looking barriers are only safety rated to certain speed limits/vehicles.

[Willy Nilly]

Flibbertygibbet said:

Willy Nilly said:

The speed of the traffic won't either stop a person in the road works getting hit if they are under the speed limit, or make it more likely that they will get hit if they are over the speed limit. So I'll ask again, how are the people in road works getting hit by traffic?

Thanks.

If you are after a specific answer, are you specifically referring to long term roadworks with a reduced speed limit and variogard and average speed check enforcement which are all there to support a dynamic and more dangerous carriageway layout, or are you referring to short term overnight roadworks where there will be a reduced speed limit on the lead in to the works when the advance signage and cones are being set out?

The different sets of works have different hazards

Both.

In the short term works, if no vehicles are in the working area and no people are in the live traffic area, nobody gets hurt. So how are people and live traffic mixing? Really, the same with long term road works, how are people (construction staff in the main, I assume) getting hit by traffic.

I can't imagine it makes much difference if you get hit at 49mph or 69mph, the outcome is much the same. The ideal would surely be not to get hit at all.

[anonymous-user]

Willy Nilly said:

Both.
In the short term works, if no vehicles are in the working area and no people are in the live traffic area, nobody gets hurt. So how are people and live traffic mixing? Really, the same with long term road works, how are people (construction staff in the main, I assume) getting hit by traffic.

I can't imagine it makes much difference if you get hit at 49mph or 69mph, the outcome is much the same. The ideal would surely be not to get hit at all.

I remember going to a job where the contractors were happily doing soft verge maintenance with full hard shoulder closure, they soon foooked off the job when a car came through and landed on it's roof in the work space.

[gothatway]

OP/colleagues- what are your views on the National Speed Limits on the roads you patrol - too high, too low, spot on correct ?

[BossHogg]

I only patrol motorways, it doesn't matter what the speed limit is, because there will always be people who will exceed that speed limit. That is why I am constantly monitoring the traffic. I am responsible for my own safety, it is up to me to go home to my family.

[BossHogg]

Willy Nilly said:

Ok, we're getting somewhere. So, there is fault on both sides. When those hefty looking concrete barriers are used, are the people working on site still getting hit?

Strikes me that it is not the speed that is the issue, more that one or both parties are where they shouldn't be.

Those barriers in the main do work, however, I have seen cars flip the barrier in RTCs, narrowly missing staff working in the road works.

[Flibbertygibbet]

Willy Nilly said:

Both.

In the short term works, if no vehicles are in the working area and no people are in the live traffic area, nobody gets hurt. So how are people and live traffic mixing? Really, the same with long term road works, how are people (construction staff in the main, I assume) getting hit by traffic.

I can't imagine it makes much difference if you get hit at 49mph or 69mph, the outcome is much the same. The ideal would surely be not to get hit at all.

Short term works don’t have a speed limit posted through them unless the centre reserve or some other safety structure (eg bearside bridge crash barrier) has been fully compromised (ie a hole through it). Speeds are set to slow motorists down on approach to the works while the TM crew put down their advance signage and cones because slowing traffic down to 50 or 40mph when there is a man standing in the back of an IPV dropping cones on the road just makes sense whichever way you look at it. Motorists who crash into an IPV during the setting out phase really deserve the book throwing at them, the flashing arrow is visible for miles away. The exact mechanism for what signs can be set where on different types of road is governed in the RCC staff’s work instructions. Like anything else, the staff are under the microscope at all times and if they don’t follow procedure to the letter they are stood down from the ability to set any signs until they are re educated.

There is ongoing research being carried out at the moment regarding advance signage and how much is needed (this is again governed by chapter 8) and driverless/staffless IPVs/cone droppers.

[Willy Nilly]

Flibbertygibbet said:

Willy Nilly said:

Both.

In the short term works, if no vehicles are in the working area and no people are in the live traffic area, nobody gets hurt. So how are people and live traffic mixing? Really, the same with long term road works, how are people (construction staff in the main, I assume) getting hit by traffic.

I can't imagine it makes much difference if you get hit at 49mph or 69mph, the outcome is much the same. The ideal would surely be not to get hit at all.

Short term works don’t have a speed limit posted through them unless the centre reserve or some other safety structure (eg bearside bridge crash barrier) has been fully compromised (ie a hole through it). Speeds are set to slow motorists down on approach to the works while the TM crew put down their advance signage and cones because slowing traffic down to 50 or 40mph when there is a man standing in the back of an IPV dropping cones on the road just makes sense whichever way you look at it. Motorists who crash into an IPV during the setting out phase really deserve the book throwing at them, the flashing arrow is visible for miles away. The exact mechanism for what signs can be set where on different types of road is governed in the RCC staff’s work instructions. Like anything else, the staff are under the microscope at all times and if they don’t follow procedure to the letter they are stood down from the ability to set any signs until they are re educated.

There is ongoing research being carried out at the moment regarding advance signage and how much is needed (this is again governed by chapter 8) and driverless/staffless IPVs/cone droppers.

So one more time, just for a laugh...

How are the people, most of whom one might assume are workers, getting hit in sections of road works?

[Flibbertygibbet]

How about you just tell us what answer you want to hear?

[Willy Nilly]

Flibbertygibbet said:

How about you just tell us what answer you want to hear?

I want to hear the reasons people are getting hit in roads works. There must be a reason that vehicles and traffic are in the same place at the same time.