Attacked by security guard - police blaming me!
Discussion
Centurion07 said:
They may not have, but I'm pretty sure most people, including the OP, wouldn't know one way or the other. Even if they don't, if the security guard THINKS you're trying to walk out with something then he's well within his rights to challenge that person and then when they respond in the way the OP did, it ends up escalating.
My view on how these scenarios escalate is that it is largely down to the way it is handled by the staff. The guard had many opportunities to deescalate and could have chosen to simply follow to the car and take down the reg or when he chose to physically stop the OP from leaving and was met with resistance he could have decided further force was potentially excessive and backed down returning to simply gathering evidence to later trace the OP.... guard decided to start kicking and shouting abuse which I think makes it fairly clear he wanted an excuse to throw his weight about...
768 said:
La Liga said:
'd have done it every other report rather than odd / even if looking to gather such data. Although statistically it's probably the same thing it doesn't sound as bad.
They have safeguards built for when there were likely reasonable lines of enquiry and for vulnerability.
It won't be statistically the same thing after word gets out.They have safeguards built for when there were likely reasonable lines of enquiry and for vulnerability.
Wouldn't surprise me if there are fewer even numbered houses either.
Obviously if burglars know about odds / evens being treated differently, which I think is your point, then that may create some issues!
markyb_lcy said:
In Lincolnshire, you just have to live on the "wrong" side of the street...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3185741/N...
(Yes, Daily Fail, so likely sensationalised).
Demands and funding sure do have to have a bearing on what they can do, but arbitrary systems such as deciding whether to visit based on the house number, is hardly fair or reasonable, is it? You don't read about those houses on the "wrong side" for a visit getting a council tax discount.
If you think I'm blaming police for this here, I am actually not. I'm blaming central government, either for not funding or guiding them sufficiently, and/or not calling them out and dealing with it when standards are so obviously slipping.
Or in Leicestershire https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3185741/N...
(Yes, Daily Fail, so likely sensationalised).
Demands and funding sure do have to have a bearing on what they can do, but arbitrary systems such as deciding whether to visit based on the house number, is hardly fair or reasonable, is it? You don't read about those houses on the "wrong side" for a visit getting a council tax discount.
If you think I'm blaming police for this here, I am actually not. I'm blaming central government, either for not funding or guiding them sufficiently, and/or not calling them out and dealing with it when standards are so obviously slipping.
markyb_lcy said:
I asked whether you thought it was reasonable, not whether you consider it was lawful. But clearly you moved to more comfortable ground.
And for the purpose of the discussion, I'll retract the word "assault" ... let's go with "initiate physical contact"?
It's amazing how many people think the word assault means an unlawful act has taken place when in fact an assualt is not unlawful until proved so. Also people say assault when they mean battery.And for the purpose of the discussion, I'll retract the word "assault" ... let's go with "initiate physical contact"?
kestral said:
It's amazing how many people think the word assault means an unlawful act has taken place when in fact an assualt is not unlawful until proved so. Also people say assault when they mean battery.
With you on battery but unlawful is part and parcel of an assault. R v Venna [1976] QB 421
A person commits an assault if they perform an act (which does not for this purpose include a mere omission to act) by which they intentionally or recklessly causes another person to apprehend immediate unlawful violence.
Graveworm said:
With you on battery but unlawful is part and parcel of an assault.
R v Venna [1976] QB 421
A person commits an assault if they perform an act (which does not for this purpose include a mere omission to act) by which they intentionally or recklessly causes another person to apprehend immediate unlawful violence.
And people get mixed up with terms like common assault and assault by beating which are criminal offences and require different standards of proof and state of mind. As aposed to a tortious assault. That's were things go wrong.R v Venna [1976] QB 421
A person commits an assault if they perform an act (which does not for this purpose include a mere omission to act) by which they intentionally or recklessly causes another person to apprehend immediate unlawful violence.
kestral said:
It's amazing how many people think the word assault means an unlawful act has taken place when in fact an assualt is not unlawful until proved so. Also people say assault when they mean battery.
Why wouldn't they unless legally trained (or regularly arrested)? The differences seem quite nuanced!Black_S3 said:
Centurion07 said:
They may not have, but I'm pretty sure most people, including the OP, wouldn't know one way or the other. Even if they don't, if the security guard THINKS you're trying to walk out with something then he's well within his rights to challenge that person and then when they respond in the way the OP did, it ends up escalating.
My view on how these scenarios escalate is that it is largely down to the way it is handled by the staff. The guard had many opportunities to deescalate and could have chosen to simply follow to the car and take down the reg or when he chose to physically stop the OP from leaving and was met with resistance he could have decided further force was potentially excessive and backed down returning to simply gathering evidence to later trace the OP.... guard decided to start kicking and shouting abuse which I think makes it fairly clear he wanted an excuse to throw his weight about...What I think is clear is that the OP is the one who had ample opportunity to diffuse the situation, but repeatedly chose not to do so.
When he finally comes before the judge, he will likely have to account for why he was acting exactly in the same manner that a shoplifter does, when questioned.
Riley Blue said:
I try to ensure life's minor hic-cups don't escalate, often irrespective of my own feelings. Save your indignation for when it really matters, a supermarket mix-up isn't one of them.
Indeed.There are 'civil liberty' fights worth fighting for & the cost of that fight worth paying, but being asked for a receipt & returning to a store for a minute to sort it out?
C'mon.
Riley Blue said:
I try to ensure life's minor hic-cups don't escalate, often irrespective of my own feelings. Save your indignation for when it really matters, a supermarket mix-up isn't one of them.
Yes. Nothing about this thread makes sense. I'm almost inclined to file it in the "s
t that never happened " file.Couple of weeks ago I bought some steak and wine from the local Tesco Express. Used self serve. Selected no receipt. Walk out the door and the alarms go off. Normally the staff wave you on. Recently though they have put a security guard in. I stopped, he came over, asked for my receipt. I said I dont have one the till asked me and I said no. He asked me to wait, got a member of staff, told them. They said it's fine and on my way I went.
30 seconds of my time and all was sorted.
Kuji said:
I don't think that makes it clear at all. But then, you may have some personal motivation for thinking that way.
What I think is clear is that the OP is the one who had ample opportunity to diffuse the situation, but repeatedly chose not to do so.
When he finally comes before the judge, he will likely have to account for why he was acting exactly in the same manner that a shoplifter does, when questioned.
This may be totally out of date but might provide some interesting reading for you. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/m...What I think is clear is that the OP is the one who had ample opportunity to diffuse the situation, but repeatedly chose not to do so.
When he finally comes before the judge, he will likely have to account for why he was acting exactly in the same manner that a shoplifter does, when questioned.
Note here that the bloke there is a barrister and he says you don't need to provide a receipt. Note also that after the receipt was seen that my partner was released and no allegation of theft has been made.
I'm not sure how a shoplifter acts. But I can assure you that competent security staff do not accost paying customers for no reason. Time will tell if he can provide a good reason.
As I've said I want this resolving. But let's not pretend there is all right or wrong on any side here.
And here is another example of the professional skills of security at supermarkets https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/n...
Note I know that most are probably great. And they face abuse and problems for not a lot of money. But it does not give then the right to go marching around behaving like that. He was accused of being violent as well.
Its easy for the rich and the powerful to sue and pit the story in national papers. B
Guys like me have to hope the police will sort things.. we shall see how that works out.
Note I know that most are probably great. And they face abuse and problems for not a lot of money. But it does not give then the right to go marching around behaving like that. He was accused of being violent as well.
Its easy for the rich and the powerful to sue and pit the story in national papers. B
Guys like me have to hope the police will sort things.. we shall see how that works out.
milkround said:
As I've said I want this resolving. But let's not pretend there is all right or wrong on any side here.
As you're quite happy with the fact that there is fault on both sides, I'm interested in what resolution you want to see?If you want some restorative position from the security guard/supermarket side, what is that and what restoration are you prepared to give?
Bert
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