E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

[hyphen]

LunarOne said:

It seems a shame that they have defined an electric scooter as "(c)has two wheels, one front and one rear, aligned along the direction of travel". That would preclude those scooters which have two wheels at the front, the steering mechanism of which seem much more directionally stable than a single front wheel which rotates in unison with the handlebars.

Not only that, but those two-wheel designs would presumably be less badly affected by drainage grates and potholes. Below image to illustrate the wheel arrangement, rather than to suggest that a micro scooter is suitable for use on the road.

3 wheeels are for under 5s! I think they are less manoeuvrable?Also will likely be wider taking up more space.

I think the fact motorbikes, mopeds and pedal bikes have settled on two wheels indicates 2 wheeels is a tried and trusted solution.

[Mort7]

Hmmm.......

How long before the first fatality? One week? Two? Followed by the inevitable Government U-turn?

[Gareth79]

vaud said:

okgo said:

Maybe, seems like hassle, can see the hire company having a button you have to press to confirm age and having one and little more, bit like visiting a booze website...

They will presumably just use the DVLA API that allows you to validate a drivers licence, like you do when insuring a car. Easy to implement and low cost.

I think they would just require either you to type in the number, or perhaps snap a photo of your licence.

[LimSlip]

hyphen said:

3 wheeels are for under 5s! I think they are less manoeuvrable?Also will likely be wider taking up more space.

I think the fact motorbikes, mopeds and pedal bikes have settled on two wheels indicates 2 wheeels is a tried and trusted solution.

The recent increase in the popularity of three wheeled scooters (and even full size motorcycles) says otherwise e.g Piagio MP3, Gilera Fuoco, Yamaha Niken, Yamaha Tricity, Kymco CV3, Peugeot Metropolis etc..

[hyphen]

LimSlip said:

The recent increase in the popularity of three wheeled scooters (and even full size motorcycles) says other wise e.g Piagio MP3, Gilera Fuoco, Yamaha Niken, Yamaha Tricity, Kymco CV3, Peugeot Metropolis etc..

Fair enough.

You may want to write to put this definition change forward. Otherwise may stay as is.

[unident]

LimSlip said:

The recent increase in the popularity of three wheeled scooters (and even full size motorcycles) says otherwise e.g Piagio MP3, Gilera Fuoco, Yamaha Niken, Yamaha Tricity, Kymco CV3, Peugeot Metropolis etc..

I can barely remember seeing one of those on the roads. However, they may be popular is cities as commuter vehicles. I wonder how much of that his die to them being able to be ridden on a car licence though?

[GC8]

agtlaw said:

GC8 said:

Are they legal on the road only? Even with pneumatic tyres, the steering angle is so sharp that theyll be terribly unstable. Im all for them, but not wobbling under my vehicles wheels on the road.

Legislation


Explanatory memorandum

Thank you Andrew.

[anonymous-user]

eldar said:

Will these have number plates? Or similar means of identifying them?

No.

Why would they need such a thing?

The rental scooters themselves are able to be identified and tracked by the rental company, but that’s about it as far as identification goes.

[JQ]

cts1975 said:

Apologies if this has been mentioned early in the thread.
Liverpool City Council have already opened the bidding process for tenders on the operation of escooters.
They are seeking an established organisation to provide escooters initially on a 12 months trial at no cost to the council.
Their main concerns (judging by the tender pack) is can the escooters be restricted on how far they travel outside of the city centre!

Having seen what happened in Manchester with MoBikes, I suspect they're also worried most will end up in the Mersey or zooming round Bootle with their trackers de-activated.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/great...

[eldar]

Lord Marylebone said:

No.

Why would they need such a thing?

The rental scooters themselves are able to be identified and tracked by the rental company, but that’s about it as far as identification goes.

As you appear to need a driving licence to drive one, any offences would be unenforceable unless caught red handed.

I dont know if HMG think that is a problem or not, or they assume the renter will just carry the can. Assuming rental ones are distinguishable from pirate ones.

[anonymous-user]

eldar said:

As you appear to need a driving licence to drive one, any offences would be unenforceable unless caught red handed.

I dont know if HMG think that is a problem or not, or they assume the renter will just carry the can. Assuming rental ones are distinguishable from pirate ones.

You are getting confused by the fact you need a licence to hire one.

The licence isn’t so you can be punished for ‘motoring offences’, nor do you need to have passed any form of driving test.

It is merely an age and ID check before you rent one as per the requirements of this trial period.

Virtually the same rules apply to these scooters as apply to a bicycle.

Which basically means you get nothing more than a slap on the wrist or a small fine if caught riding one on a pavement, riding dangerously, or riding under the influence of alcohol.

The authorities aren’t looking to put points on your licence for traffic offences committed on an e-scooter, e-bike, or even a plain old bicycle.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 1st July 17:26

[silverthorn2151]

I own one. I reckon the 30 or so careful and defensive miles I have under my belt makes me a massively better rider. Way better than someone jumping on one for the first time and zipping off into the city centre.

In my view formulating a policy based ONLY on rental is akin to setting cycling policy based on Boris bikes alone and if you see how some of those are ridden.

Besides all of that stuff they're bloody brilliant fun.

[GC8]

Lord Marylebone said:

GC8 said:

Are they legal on the road only? Even with pneumatic tyres, the steering angle is so sharp that theyll be terribly unstable. Im all for them, but not wobbling under my vehicles wheels on the road.

Yes. Legal on the road only and not allowed on pavements. The the same as bicycles.

If you go and watch a few videos on YouTube of people commuting in London on e-scooters it may calm your fears slightly.

They really do zip along at the same speed as a well ridden bicycle, so they aren’t simply wobbling around at walking pace.

Simply treat them as you would treat a cyclist. Give them plenty of room, and only pass them when you can give them at least 1.5 metres of space.

But given that they will mostly be used in congested urban areas, I suspect e-scooters will mostly be passing cars.

Thanks. I think that my concern lies equally in my own use. Im enthusiastic about them, but wary at the same time.

The double wheels suggested earlier wont work because they require a vertical steering head and what you gain from the wheels you will lose tenfold in instability.

An extra (12" wheel rim dia.) large front wheel with a pneumatic tyre and a relaxed headstock angle will probably make them far safer.

[anonymous-user]

silverthorn2151 said:

I own one. I reckon the 30 or so careful and defensive miles I have under my belt makes me a massively better rider. Way better than someone jumping on one for the first time and zipping off into the city centre.

In my view formulating a policy based ONLY on rental is akin to setting cycling policy based on Boris bikes alone and if you see how some of those are ridden.

Besides all of that stuff they're bloody brilliant fun.

I totally agree with all that, and to be honest, it’s disappointing that the government didn’t just legalise them fully, like most other countries in Europe.

But I guess the fear was that if they did, 10,000 e-scooters would suddenly be ordered from Amazon, and the urban streets would be instantly be filled with commuters zipping along at 16mph.

I can only assume the government thought this would result in deaths and injuries, and allowing rental scooters in limited numbers, would allow both car drivers and scooter riders the opportunity to mix on the roads together, while the government assesses what the results are.

[GC8]

We still use an act of parliament from 1835: as yet we are not forward-looking.

[anonymous-user]

GC8 said:

We still use an act of parliament from 1835: as yet we are not forward-looking.

Absolutely.

What does it take to bring the UK kicking and screaming into 2020?

[eldar]

Lord Marylebone said:

You are getting confused by the fact you need a licence to hire one.

The licence isn’t so you can be punished for ‘motoring offences’, nor do you need to have passed any form of driving test.

It is merely an age and ID check before you rent one as per the requirements of this trial period.

Virtually the same rules apply to these scooters as apply to a bicycle.

Which basically means you get nothing more than a slap on the wrist or a small fine if caught riding one on a pavement, riding dangerously, or riding under the influence of alcohol.

The authorities aren’t looking to put points on your licence for traffic offences committed on an e-scooter, e-bike, or even a plain old bicycle.

Edited by Lord Marylebone on Wednesday 1st July 17:26

If it’s like a bicycle...

Why an age limit, and why can’t I just buy one and use it?

Seems a hugely complex approach to solving a problem which doesn’t really exist.

[anonymous-user]

eldar said:

If it’s like a bicycle...

Why an age limit, and why can’t I just buy one and use it?

Seems a hugely complex approach to solving a problem which doesn’t really exist.

Because, this is just a trial period.

The government are wanting to allow a restricted number of e-scooters out onto the roads to see what happens.

The only way they can control the numbers of e-scooters being used is to allow them to be ‘rental only’.

If they said everyone can just buy and ride their own scooter from next Monday, there would instantly be 10,000 scooters bought by the public and used on the road the next day, and once that happens, there is no putting the genie back on the bottle if the government change their minds over it all.

This way, they feel it isn’t working, they can simply tell the scooter rental companies to pack up and go home, and that’ll be the end of it. They won’t be faced with 10,000 or 50,000 angry members of the public who have bought an electric scooter, only to be told the government have changed their minds about them being legal.

My guess: The trials will result in very few deaths and accidents, and the government will then legalise the using of ‘privately owned’ scooters by the general public, without the need to rent one.

[WJNB]

Fantastic news. Now in addition to the Licra brigade we'll have this new lot cluttering up the roads & enjoying being deliberately obstructive to motorists. And of course they will also ride well out from the kerbs & demand that they be given a gigantic berth by passing vehicles.
I fear they will be some nasty casualties which will ALWAYS be down to ''somebody else'. God help pedestrians too.
The best news is of course that we have a police force with enormous spare manpower to enforce the E scooter regulations.

[Mort7]

silverthorn2151 said:

I own one. I reckon the 30 or so careful and defensive miles I have under my belt makes me a massively better rider. Way better than someone jumping on one for the first time and zipping off into the city centre.

In my view formulating a policy based ONLY on rental is akin to setting cycling policy based on Boris bikes alone and if you see how some of those are ridden.

Besides all of that stuff they're bloody brilliant fun.

As a matter of interest, were the 30 careful and defensive miles carried out on private property, or illegally on public roads, cycle lanes or pavements?