Attacked by security guard - police blaming me!

[The Mad Monk]

milkround said:

kestral said:

You only have 21 days to appeal. If you put the appeal in you can withdraw it if you need to.

With cost implications I believe?

I am googling and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Let it go.

Move on with your life.

[FrenchCarFan]

BertBert said:

ging84 said:

Where did the bit about hitting with the frying pan come from? Was it something that came up at trial? Or was it discussed before?

Only in the witness statements at trial I believe

Who was the witness? Eddie Hitler or Richard Richard?

[anonymous-user]

milkround said:

With cost implications I believe?

I am googling and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Have you raised a complaint with the law firm?

[carinaman]

https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/human-rights...

This is Great Britain, not some half arsed Banana republic where politicians can prorogue parliament on a whim.

The Human Rights Act means you can deal with a convenient Magistrates Court, not have to ride your scooter all the way to Brussels.

[carinaman]

milkround, your case is just another one where evidence has not been disclosed. On those grounds perhaps those urging you to drop it may have a point.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/nov/15/cps-an...

[Flumpo]

carinaman said:

milkround, your case is just another one where evidence has not been disclosed. On those grounds perhaps those urging you to drop it may have a point.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/nov/15/cps-an...

I couldn’t be bothered reading the link, as it’s probably full of antisemitism.

But this might be the time to cut your losses milky.

[milkround]

Flumpo said:

carinaman said:

milkround, your case is just another one where evidence has not been disclosed. On those grounds perhaps those urging you to drop it may have a point.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/nov/15/cps-an...

I couldn’t be bothered reading the link, as it’s probably full of antisemitism.

But this might be the time to cut your losses milky.

You probably have a point. And truth be told I've tried. I actually told my partner I'd let it go and we could move on with our lives. She wants me to do that. But each night when I've tried going to sleep I've been replaying parts of the trial and wondering why the hell I didn't just represent myself. If I'd have lost then at least I'd have put up some resistance. I had a solicitor who didn't even know who was giving evidence for me, and who turned up without any of the cctv several hours late. I had a prosecutor who said I wasn't pushed I walked into the chap (when I was moving away from him). I had CCTV which showed certain things which were said couldn't be true (which was not served). And I had to sit through it all silently, whilst screaming inside for someone to point out the obvious.

Now I'm not saying I'm going to appeal. I'd just like to get advice from someone who I consider respectable to look over it and tell me if in their professional opinion it's worthwhile. If I had a medical problem I'd speak to a doctor. If I had a problem with my tax I'd speak to an accountant. And here I am with a legal issue and I want to run it past a decent lawyer.

[hutchst]

milkround said:

With cost implications I believe?

I am googling and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

But you already know that the stuff that's important can't be found on google, don't you?

[4rephill]

milkround said:

.......Now I'm not saying I'm going to appeal. I'd just like to get advice from someone who I consider respectable to look over it and tell me if in their professional opinion it's worthwhile. If I had a medical problem I'd speak to a doctor. If I had a problem with my tax I'd speak to an accountant. And here I am with a legal issue and I want to run it past a decent lawyer.

So go see a lawyer! - Like you would a Doctor for a medical problem, or an accountant for a tax problem.

[superlightr]

milkround said:

You probably have a point. And truth be told I've tried. I actually told my partner I'd let it go and we could move on with our lives. She wants me to do that. But each night when I've tried going to sleep I've been replaying parts of the trial and wondering why the hell I didn't just represent myself. If I'd have lost then at least I'd have put up some resistance. I had a solicitor who didn't even know who was giving evidence for me, and who turned up without any of the cctv several hours late. I had a prosecutor who said I wasn't pushed I walked into the chap (when I was moving away from him). I had CCTV which showed certain things which were said couldn't be true (which was not served). And I had to sit through it all silently, whilst screaming inside for someone to point out the obvious.

Now I'm not saying I'm going to appeal. I'd just like to get advice from someone who I consider respectable to look over it and tell me if in their professional opinion it's worthwhile. If I had a medical problem I'd speak to a doctor. If I had a problem with my tax I'd speak to an accountant. And here I am with a legal issue and I want to run it past a decent lawyer.

I can understand where you are coming from. It would eat at me to be honest. Ive been lucky not to get into that sort of situation but have been to court a few times for civil claims Ive started but then I qualified as a solicitor and was able to present my side well and win each time - often over small sums but I felt I had been done over. But it was not criminal law. Saying that if you have the motivation to learn and present your own case/defence/appeal then im sure you can do so and do so well.

Where to draw the line? - how much would it cost you for the appeal in money terms if you represented yourself? and how much if you used a decent solicitor. Would you need a barrister?

The sensible answer would be not to take it any further. Trouble is some of us are not always sensible and will do things to right a wrong or at least try to. I think get a costing of how much it will be roughly and go from there. If it were me I would spend a fair bit at the appeal as I hate that inner feeling of being done over and that is worth more to me then £x £x being an amount you are prepared to lose. Im not you.

To put a money figure I would pay about £25k as what it would be worth to me to fight it further I would lose that to try anyway.

Hope it helps with me saying my thought process.

[carinaman]

Useful post superlightr. Useful thread milkround.

milkround was anyone in the Public Gallery?

[TwistingMyMelon]

superlightr said:

milkround said:

You probably have a point. And truth be told I've tried. I actually told my partner I'd let it go and we could move on with our lives. She wants me to do that. But each night when I've tried going to sleep I've been replaying parts of the trial and wondering why the hell I didn't just represent myself. If I'd have lost then at least I'd have put up some resistance. I had a solicitor who didn't even know who was giving evidence for me, and who turned up without any of the cctv several hours late. I had a prosecutor who said I wasn't pushed I walked into the chap (when I was moving away from him). I had CCTV which showed certain things which were said couldn't be true (which was not served). And I had to sit through it all silently, whilst screaming inside for someone to point out the obvious.

Now I'm not saying I'm going to appeal. I'd just like to get advice from someone who I consider respectable to look over it and tell me if in their professional opinion it's worthwhile. If I had a medical problem I'd speak to a doctor. If I had a problem with my tax I'd speak to an accountant. And here I am with a legal issue and I want to run it past a decent lawyer.

I can understand where you are coming from. It would eat at me to be honest. Ive been lucky not to get into that sort of situation but have been to court a few times for civil claims Ive started but then I qualified as a solicitor and was able to present my side well and win each time - often over small sums but I felt I had been done over. But it was not criminal law. Saying that if you have the motivation to learn and present your own case/defence/appeal then im sure you can do so and do so well.

Where to draw the line? - how much would it cost you for the appeal in money terms if you represented yourself? and how much if you used a decent solicitor. Would you need a barrister?

The sensible answer would be not to take it any further. Trouble is some of us are not always sensible and will do things to right a wrong or at least try to. I think get a costing of how much it will be roughly and go from there. If it were me I would spend a fair bit at the appeal as I hate that inner feeling of being done over and that is worth more to me then £x £x being an amount you are prepared to lose. Im not you.

To put a money figure I would pay about £25k as what it would be worth to me to fight it further I would lose that to try anyway.

Hope it helps with me saying my thought process.

25k???

To fight this

Blimey

"But I was in the right....."

[Pegscratch]

TwistingMyMelon said:

25k???

To fight this

Blimey

"But I was in the right....."

Criminal records can have consequences on employment or potential future employment. If I was facing that prospect after such a stshow of a defence I'd be willing to sign up to a good proportion of that sum at least to make sure that wasn't a future problem.

[carinaman]

TwistingMyMelon said:

25k???

To fight this

Blimey

"But I was in the right....."

Perhaps it's more the case that the OP now has a criminal record for failings that lay at the feet of the Security Guard and Supermarket due to their lack of training and supervision?

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jun/18/high...


So when all of us are in our local Supermarkets we're all considered shoplifters until proven otherwise?

'If you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear'? So milkround was wrong for walking the wrong way out of the Supermarket, if he did?

[MB140]

TwistingMyMelon said:

superlightr said:

milkround said:

You probably have a point. And truth be told I've tried. I actually told my partner I'd let it go and we could move on with our lives. She wants me to do that. But each night when I've tried going to sleep I've been replaying parts of the trial and wondering why the hell I didn't just represent myself. If I'd have lost then at least I'd have put up some resistance. I had a solicitor who didn't even know who was giving evidence for me, and who turned up without any of the cctv several hours late. I had a prosecutor who said I wasn't pushed I walked into the chap (when I was moving away from him). I had CCTV which showed certain things which were said couldn't be true (which was not served). And I had to sit through it all silently, whilst screaming inside for someone to point out the obvious.

Now I'm not saying I'm going to appeal. I'd just like to get advice from someone who I consider respectable to look over it and tell me if in their professional opinion it's worthwhile. If I had a medical problem I'd speak to a doctor. If I had a problem with my tax I'd speak to an accountant. And here I am with a legal issue and I want to run it past a decent lawyer.

I can understand where you are coming from. It would eat at me to be honest. Ive been lucky not to get into that sort of situation but have been to court a few times for civil claims Ive started but then I qualified as a solicitor and was able to present my side well and win each time - often over small sums but I felt I had been done over. But it was not criminal law. Saying that if you have the motivation to learn and present your own case/defence/appeal then im sure you can do so and do so well.

Where to draw the line? - how much would it cost you for the appeal in money terms if you represented yourself? and how much if you used a decent solicitor. Would you need a barrister?

The sensible answer would be not to take it any further. Trouble is some of us are not always sensible and will do things to right a wrong or at least try to. I think get a costing of how much it will be roughly and go from there. If it were me I would spend a fair bit at the appeal as I hate that inner feeling of being done over and that is worth more to me then £x £x being an amount you are prepared to lose. Im not you.

To put a money figure I would pay about £25k as what it would be worth to me to fight it further I would lose that to try anyway.

Hope it helps with me saying my thought process.

25k???

To fight this

Blimey

"But I was in the right....."

Depends how deep your pockets are and if you feel wrong done by.

I remember a thread on here last year where a PH was dating the daughter of a Lord and Lady.

The daughter having suffered a personal tragedy missed a payment on a car. The lease company repossessed it straight away no notice. An eagled eyed bod at the lease company spotted the private plate on it was worth a few quid and transferred it off the car before selling the car on. Plate was £30k ish.

Now the lease company and the individual decided to play hard ball when asked to return the money or the plate and thought they would bully the his poor young lady. Wrong move.

Before she signed an NDA and the thread mysteriously disappeared the lord and lady were using a couple of barristers at £2k an hour each and legal costs alone had escalated in to the £100k plus point. All for a private plate.

If I had unlimited resources (which they practically had) I would have spent the money on principal as well.

It seems MR has to decided what his principles are worth in £ and if he wants to keep pushing on with this.

[vonhosen]

MB140 said:

TwistingMyMelon said:

superlightr said:

milkround said:

You probably have a point. And truth be told I've tried. I actually told my partner I'd let it go and we could move on with our lives. She wants me to do that. But each night when I've tried going to sleep I've been replaying parts of the trial and wondering why the hell I didn't just represent myself. If I'd have lost then at least I'd have put up some resistance. I had a solicitor who didn't even know who was giving evidence for me, and who turned up without any of the cctv several hours late. I had a prosecutor who said I wasn't pushed I walked into the chap (when I was moving away from him). I had CCTV which showed certain things which were said couldn't be true (which was not served). And I had to sit through it all silently, whilst screaming inside for someone to point out the obvious.

Now I'm not saying I'm going to appeal. I'd just like to get advice from someone who I consider respectable to look over it and tell me if in their professional opinion it's worthwhile. If I had a medical problem I'd speak to a doctor. If I had a problem with my tax I'd speak to an accountant. And here I am with a legal issue and I want to run it past a decent lawyer.

I can understand where you are coming from. It would eat at me to be honest. Ive been lucky not to get into that sort of situation but have been to court a few times for civil claims Ive started but then I qualified as a solicitor and was able to present my side well and win each time - often over small sums but I felt I had been done over. But it was not criminal law. Saying that if you have the motivation to learn and present your own case/defence/appeal then im sure you can do so and do so well.

Where to draw the line? - how much would it cost you for the appeal in money terms if you represented yourself? and how much if you used a decent solicitor. Would you need a barrister?

The sensible answer would be not to take it any further. Trouble is some of us are not always sensible and will do things to right a wrong or at least try to. I think get a costing of how much it will be roughly and go from there. If it were me I would spend a fair bit at the appeal as I hate that inner feeling of being done over and that is worth more to me then £x £x being an amount you are prepared to lose. Im not you.

To put a money figure I would pay about £25k as what it would be worth to me to fight it further I would lose that to try anyway.

Hope it helps with me saying my thought process.

25k???

To fight this

Blimey

"But I was in the right....."

Depends how deep your pockets are and if you feel wrong done by.

I remember a thread on here last year where a PH was dating the daughter of a Lord and Lady.

The daughter having suffered a personal tragedy missed a payment on a car. The lease company repossessed it straight away no notice. An eagled eyed bod at the lease company spotted the private plate on it was worth a few quid and transferred it off the car before selling the car on. Plate was £30k ish.

Now the lease company and the individual decided to play hard ball when asked to return the money or the plate and thought they would bully the his poor young lady. Wrong move.

Before she signed an NDA and the thread mysteriously disappeared the lord and lady were using a couple of barristers at £2k an hour each and legal costs alone had escalated in to the £100k plus point. All for a private plate.

If I had unlimited resources (which they practically had) I would have spent the money on principal as well.

It seems MR has to decided what his principles are worth in £ and if he wants to keep pushing on with this.

He needs somebody to objectively & dispassionately look at if he has a case first, most people who have had a chance to look at everything available have determined he hasn't thus far.

[Pegscratch]

vonhosen said:

He needs somebody to objectively & dispassionately look at if he has a case first, most people who have had a chance to look at everything available have determined he hasn't thus far.

Put simply there's nobody in this thread who fits that bill. The only people who have that opportunity are the prosecution and whoever was collating the information for his defence - and clearly not whoever represented him on the day. A bunch of have a go pub solicitors on here with limited understanding and little experience doesn't equal an ability to determine whether he has any chance at appeal.

Hence the attempt at a crowdfunded review. They will be an actual legal professional with actual legal experience and full access to everything that could and should have been used in the original trial.

[carinaman]

If the CCTV disproves the points made in Court and that CCTV wasn't served by the CPS has there been a disclosure failure and should the OP seek a Barrister who has experience of dealing with disclosure failures?

If the CCTV disproves the statements made by witnesses in Court were they 'mistaken' or did they perjure themselves?

[Pegscratch]

carinaman said:

If the CCTV disproves the points made in Court and that CCTV wasn't served by the CPS has there been a disclosure failure and should the OP seek a Barrister who has experience of dealing with disclosure failures?

If the CCTV disproves the statements made by witnesses in Court were they 'mistaken' or did they perjure themselves?

Arguably on the former point, but the latter it depends on the testimony and conviction of the person giving it as to whether they could argue being "mistaken". If they were 110% in their assertions that were absolutely without merit then I'd like to think that they would be pulled up on it - they won't be though.

[Graveworm]

Bigends said:

OP had to admit being in the wrong for the apology to be issued

Not necessarily. Plenty of apologies don't admit liability. It's a tool used frequently by bodies and individuals. In this case, for example. and consistent with what the OP has said.
"I am sorry for what happened, I would definitely do things definitely if this situation happened again. I really regret any violence and apologise for any that I was responsible for.