Attacked by security guard - police blaming me!

[carinaman]

Graveworm said:

Bigends said:

OP had to admit being in the wrong for the apology to be issued

Not necessarily. Plenty of apologies don't admit liability. It's a tool used frequently by bodies and individuals. In this case, for example. and consistent with what the OP has said.
"I am sorry for what happened, I would definitely do things definitely if this situation happened again. I really regret any violence and apologise for any that I was responsible for.

How often do police lean on people to get them to accept Cautions without any legal representation?

Is that what they tried to do with milkround? He got to Court for failing to be bullied, coerced or encouraged to accept a Caution without having any legal representation present?

Did the police officer dissuade milkround from using a Solicitor at that point? Can the police officer dissuade milkround from having a Solicitor present when he was going to be Cautioned? Is that their job? Did that police officer abuse their Public Office responsibilities by suggesting to milkround that he didn't need a Solicitor present when he was being Cautioned?

Malicious prosecution?


It's all above board and nothing to see here folks.

[TwistingMyMelon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-wor...

Not enough folded arm action looking angry for my liking

Lifes not fair, grit your teeth and get on with it IMO

[Graveworm]

carinaman said:

How often do police lean on people to get them to accept Cautions without any legal representation?

Is that what they tried to do with milkround? He got to Court for failing to be bullied, coerced or encouraged to accept a Caution without having any legal representation present?

Did the police officer dissuade milkround from using a Solicitor at that point? Can the police officer dissuade milkround from having a Solicitor present when he was going to be Cautioned? Is that their job? Did that police officer abuse their Public Office responsibilities by suggesting to milkround that he didn't need a Solicitor present when he was being Cautioned?

Malicious prosecution?


It's all above board and nothing to see here folks.

He was never offered a caution.

[anonymous-user]

carinaman said:

How often do police lean on people to get them to accept Cautions without any legal representation?

Is that what they tried to do with milkround? He got to Court for failing to be bullied, coerced or encouraged to accept a Caution without having any legal representation present?

Did the police officer dissuade milkround from using a Solicitor at that point? Can the police officer dissuade milkround from having a Solicitor present when he was going to be Cautioned? Is that their job? Did that police officer abuse their Public Office responsibilities by suggesting to milkround that he didn't need a Solicitor present when he was being Cautioned?

Malicious prosecution?


It's all above board and nothing to see here folks.

It's nearly Christmas. Give the paranoid part of your brain the day off. Whatever's left should also have the day off.

The OP has been given the proper advice and I suspect even some charitable funding, to go and get counsel opinion. Yet he's still here procastinating.

[vonhosen]

carinaman said:

Graveworm said:

Bigends said:

OP had to admit being in the wrong for the apology to be issued

Not necessarily. Plenty of apologies don't admit liability. It's a tool used frequently by bodies and individuals. In this case, for example. and consistent with what the OP has said.
"I am sorry for what happened, I would definitely do things definitely if this situation happened again. I really regret any violence and apologise for any that I was responsible for.

How often do police lean on people to get them to accept Cautions without any legal representation?

Is that what they tried to do with milkround? He got to Court for failing to be bullied, coerced or encouraged to accept a Caution without having any legal representation present?

Did the police officer dissuade milkround from using a Solicitor at that point? Can the police officer dissuade milkround from having a Solicitor present when he was going to be Cautioned? Is that their job? Did that police officer abuse their Public Office responsibilities by suggesting to milkround that he didn't need a Solicitor present when he was being Cautioned?

Malicious prosecution?


It's all above board and nothing to see here folks.

Only I don't recall him saying he was ever offered a caution.
Don't let that get in the way of things though.

[Bigends]

Graveworm said:

Bigends said:

OP had to admit being in the wrong for the apology to be issued

Not necessarily. Plenty of apologies don't admit liability. It's a tool used frequently by bodies and individuals. In this case, for example. and consistent with what the OP has said.
"I am sorry for what happened, I would definitely do things definitely if this situation happened again. I really regret any violence and apologise for any that I was responsible for.

The apology would have been given as part of the Community resolution process - which requires an admission on the suspects part

[carinaman]

Bigends said:

Graveworm said:

Bigends said:

OP had to admit being in the wrong for the apology to be issued

Not necessarily. Plenty of apologies don't admit liability. It's a tool used frequently by bodies and individuals. In this case, for example. and consistent with what the OP has said.
"I am sorry for what happened, I would definitely do things definitely if this situation happened again. I really regret any violence and apologise for any that I was responsible for.

The apology would have been given as part of the Community resolution process - which requires an admission on the suspects part

Thank you.

Is the Community Resolution like a Caution?

Can the alleged prepetrator have a Solicitor present when they're being taken down the Community Resolution route?

If the alleged offender cannot have a Solicitor present when being taken down the Community Resolution route would that be compliant with Article 6 of the Human Rights Act?

[Bigends]

carinaman said:

Thank you.

Is the Community Resolution like a Caution?

Can the alleged prepetrator have a Solicitor present when they're being taken down the Community Resolution route?

If the alleged offender cannot have a Solicitor present when being taken down the Community Resolution route would that be compliant with Article 6 of the Human Rights Act?

Community resolutions arent recorded as a conviction.

Theyre not recorded on PNC unlike cautions which are.

Probably no reason why a solicitor couldnt be present throughout the process at the station

[carinaman]

vonhosen said:

Only I don't recall him saying he was ever offered a caution.
Don't let that get in the way of things though.

milkround said:

Now here is the stinker. She wanted me to 'apologise' and agree to not go to that store. I'm happy to not go to that store but will never apologise. She said if I didn't do a 'community resolution' she'd have to give me a caution that goes on my record. I said I'm happy to come and give a statement (with a solicitor) but she didn't want me to do this. Said she'd need to 'think about it then'. Which tells me that she knows I've done nothing wrong and is just trying to cover it up. Why else would she not want me to have a solicitor??? It's all on CCTV.

Was it lawful for the police officer to deny milkround access to a Solicitor?

Are police officers authorised, qualified and insured to give legal advice?

PLAN = Proportionate Lawful Authorised Necessary

[Graveworm]

carinaman said:

Was it lawful for the police officer to deny milkround access to a Solicitor?

Are police officers authorised, qualified and insured to give legal advice?

PLAN = Proportionate Lawful Authorised Necessary

The A stands for accountable every time I have seen it. The officer said they would have to think about it, when the OP said he wanted to come in with a solicitor to make a statement, which is understandable as statements from suspects are pretty rare. Not sure how that became denying access to one.

[carinaman]

milkround said:

Now here is the stinker. She wanted me to 'apologise' and agree to not go to that store. I'm happy to not go to that store but will never apologise. She said if I didn't do a 'community resolution' she'd have to give me a caution that goes on my record. I said I'm happy to come and give a statement (with a solicitor) but she didn't want me to do this. Said she'd need to 'think about it then'. Which tells me that she knows I've done nothing wrong and is just trying to cover it up. Why else would she not want me to have a solicitor??? It's all on CCTV.

With the benefit of hindsight if milkround had been allowed legal representation at that stage his Solicitor may have told him to take the Community Resolution?

So part of the reason milkround is in this situation now is due to the police officer steering him away from getting legal representation at the time? Should that police officer have done that? Is that their job? Why did the police officer steer milkround from getting legal representation?

[carinaman]

Graveworm said:

The A stands for accountable every time I have seen it. The officer said they would have to think about it, when the OP said he wanted to come in with a solicitor to make a statement, which is understandable as statements from suspects are pretty rare. Not sure how that became denying access to one.

Does it sound like the police officer dissuaded or encouraged milkround from using a Solicitor?

Which part of the police training covers police officers dissuading possible offenders from using a Solicitor?

I won't be checking whether the A stands for Authorised or Accountable. You may be correct.

[anonymous-user]

carinaman said:

With the benefit of hindsight if milkround had been allowed legal representation at that stage his Solicitor may have told him to take the Community Resolution?

So part of the reason milkround is in this situation now is due to the police officer steering him away from getting legal representation at the time? Should that police officer have done that? Is that their job? Why did the police officer steer milkround from getting legal representation?

She was almost certainly trying to get the matter done and dusted sensibly, quickly and easily, and in the process doing the OP a favour.

I don't read anything in your quoted extract that says the Policewoman said he could or should not have engaged legal advice. She said she didn't (at that time) think she wanted him to attend to give a statement.

We know now how it panned out.

There is nothing in any thread proceedings so far suggesting Police impropriety. No doubt you'll keep digging for some, though. Malicious prosecution? LMFAO.

[Graveworm]

carinaman said:

Does it sound like the police officer dissuaded or encouraged milkround from using a Solicitor?

Which part of the police training covers police officers dissuading possible offenders from using a Solicitor?

I won't be checking whether the A stands for Authorised or Accountable. You may be correct.

Where was there any dissuading, the OP does ask why wouldn't they want him to have a solicitor but doesn't say the officer suggested he doesn't get one. Given, as you wrote, following advice, he may have ended up taking the alternative resolution - it seems odd that they would want that.

[anonymous-user]

OP I was going to say appeal just to keep this topic alive, but you've been given the answer and even contacts from BV to have an assessment made so it's either that or cut your (potential) losses.

carinaman said:

milkround said:

Now here is the stinker. She wanted me to 'apologise' and agree to not go to that store. I'm happy to not go to that store but will never apologise. She said if I didn't do a 'community resolution' she'd have to give me a caution that goes on my record. I said I'm happy to come and give a statement (with a solicitor) but she didn't want me to do this. Said she'd need to 'think about it then'. Which tells me that she knows I've done nothing wrong and is just trying to cover it up. Why else would she not want me to have a solicitor??? It's all on CCTV.

With the benefit of hindsight if milkround had been allowed legal representation at that stage his Solicitor may have told him to take the Community Resolution?

So part of the reason milkround is in this situation now is due to the police officer steering him away from getting legal representation at the time? Should that police officer have done that? Is that their job? Why did the police officer steer milkround from getting legal representation?

A perfect demonstration of a flawed thinker.

Misinterprets A (being denied legal advice)

Jumps to C (part of the reason milkround has a conviction).

IIRC Carinaman, the OP said a long time ago he was ignoring what you wrote and your 'advice'.

If someone told me that I'd probably not post in their topic again. Then again I don't have such a self-indulgent urge.

[roadsmash]

MB140 said:

Depends how deep your pockets are and if you feel wrong done by.

I remember a thread on here last year where a PH was dating the daughter of a Lord and Lady.

The daughter having suffered a personal tragedy missed a payment on a car. The lease company repossessed it straight away no notice. An eagled eyed bod at the lease company spotted the private plate on it was worth a few quid and transferred it off the car before selling the car on. Plate was £30k ish.

Now the lease company and the individual decided to play hard ball when asked to return the money or the plate and thought they would bully the his poor young lady. Wrong move.

Before she signed an NDA and the thread mysteriously disappeared the lord and lady were using a couple of barristers at £2k an hour each and legal costs alone had escalated in to the £100k plus point. All for a private plate.

If I had unlimited resources (which they practically had) I would have spent the money on principal as well.

It seems MR has to decided what his principles are worth in £ and if he wants to keep pushing on with this.

I wondered what happened to that thread!

[Cyberprog]

Personally I think I'd appeal, but only because I have the resources to fund such an action. I'd also be looking to retain a competent solicitor/barrister to defend me, and pay for the time to get them up to speed so they understand the issues to work on.

[TwistingMyMelon]

Have all the money you want, hes already said his other half has had enough, would you want to end up winning a lengthy appeal but now single as your misses is sick to death of hearing about a receipt for some frying pans...BUT I WON!!

Its no wonder the relationship thread in the lounge has a steady stream of victims.

[Cyberprog]

TwistingMyMelon said:

Have all the money you want, hes already said his other half has had enough, would you want to end up winning a lengthy appeal but now single as your misses is sick to death of hearing about a receipt for some frying pans...BUT I WON!!

Its no wonder the relationship thread in the lounge has a steady stream of victims.

Well, as it's my money I think the boot is a bit on the other foot. However I'd want to clear my name. Just my 10p

[RB Will]

Just a thought from myself. My only experience of court is one spell of jury duty.

If your solicitor/ barrister whatever is making a complete hash of your defence in court are you allowed to speak out and say so and add in all they stuff they were suppose to point out to help your case?