The smell of weed.

[thewarlock]

Volvolover said:

If an alcoholic dies of liver failure from cirrhosis of the liver do they die from alcoholism or liver disease…..

You guys as so desperate to prove Cannabis is some totally safe wonderful drug it clouds your thought process……

Which is somewhat ironic

You seem to be so desperate to prove cannabis is properly dangerous for your health, yet are completely unable to.

"Just look on ONS" is just a poor man's "do your own research"

[jdw100]

I have friends - unable to have kids. Desperate for them.

Wife: high flying global head of division for very high-tech electronics firm.
Husband: school classroom assistant.

Jobs relevant as not idle dosser types.

Nearly always had a couple of spliffs most evenings.

Four rounds of IVF. I think one NHS and others private.

Could they stop smoking it? Nope.

Various of us were saying: you have to really look after yourselves for best chance of this working.

Lose weight, stop drinking, eat as well as possible….. all that except for the spliffs. Would manage for a week or two then back to ‘just one in the evening’ ‘stop us stressing’.

If that’s not addictive….

Also, the whole ‘its not dangerous’ thing….I can’t see how repeatedly taking any type of smoke in to your lungs can’t be ‘not dangerous’.

Edited by jdw100 on Monday 18th October 09:37

[thewarlock]

jdw100 said:

I have friends - unable to have kids. Desperate for them.

Wife: high flying global head of division for very high-tech electronics firm.
Husband: school classroom assistant.

Jobs relevant as not idle dosser types.

Nearly always had a couple of spliffs most evenings.

Four rounds of IVF. I think one NHS and others private.

Could they stop smoking it? Nope.

Various of us were saying: you have to really look after yourselves for best chance of this working.

Lose weight, stop drinking, eat as well as possible….. all that except for the spliffs. Would manage for a week or two then back to ‘just one in the evening’ ‘stop us stressing’.

If that’s not addictive….

Also, the whole ‘its not dangerous’ thing….I can’t see how repeatedly taking any type of smoke in to your lungs can’t be ‘not dangerous’.

Edited by jdw100 on Monday 18th October 09:37

Nicotine is very addictive.No-one is denying that.

[Volvolover]

thewarlock said:

Volvolover said:

If an alcoholic dies of liver failure from cirrhosis of the liver do they die from alcoholism or liver disease…..

You guys as so desperate to prove Cannabis is some totally safe wonderful drug it clouds your thought process……

Which is somewhat ironic

You seem to be so desperate to prove cannabis is properly dangerous for your health, yet are completely unable to.

"Just look on ONS" is just a poor man's "do your own research"

I guess I just credited those looking for the 'proof' with slightly more gumption. There is so much effort put into arguing that could be diverted into looking for the 'proof'

This is merely in relation to the point somebody made about there being zero deaths, nothing more. You can look at the 2020 dataset , the All Data tab and then filter column E for Cannabis.

HTH

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

[Volvolover]

hucumber said:

Volvolover said:

Well seeing as ONS data comes from the registered death details from the death certificates there isn’t any better proof sadly

I'll bet everything I own that there are far more deaths on the road than from weed. So why don't you go off to every thread about cars or motorbikes and go on relentlessly about how deadly they are and how you can't actually prove anything

I'm sure there are....i a merely pointing out there ARE recorded deaths for cannabis. and i have provided the proof in the comment above this one.

There will also be several hundred/maybe thousands more where its a contributing factor but it wont show in the data.

The same way people are dying of things like brain tumors in hospital but having covid recorded as cause of death as they contracted covid at the end.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

thewarlock said:

Nicotine is very addictive.No-one is denying that.

So your saying cannabis isn't if it relaxes. Helps with stress. Gives you a mellow (or powerful high).


Just like alcohol it's habit forming hence part of the addiction..and of course the feeling that it gives you.

[thewarlock]

Interesting to see the difference on there between the standardised death rates of cannabis compared to say, paracetamol, or say, any anti-depressant.

Are you in favour of making those illegal?

[thewarlock]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

So your saying cannabis isn't if it relaxes. Helps with stress. Gives you a mellow (or powerful high).


Just like alcohol it's habit forming hence part of the addiction..and of course the feeling that it gives you.

I'm saying that cannabis isn't physically addictive in the way nicotine is.

Either, they got addicted to nicotine, or they've developed a mental addiction to cannabis, like someone might become addicted to gambling.

[Volvolover]

thewarlock said:

Interesting to see the difference on there between the standardised death rates of cannabis compared to say, paracetamol, or say, any anti-depressant.

Are you in favour of making those illegal?

I am only providing the answer to the challenge i was given when i scoffed at the 'no recorded deaths'....i have provided the proof that there are. Are you disputing that proof?

How many other cast iron statements by the pro cannabis crowd are as totally weak as that statement?

[thewarlock]

Volvolover said:

I am only providing the answer to the challenge i was given when i scoffed at the 'no recorded deaths'....i have provided the proof that there are. Are you disputing that proof?

How many other cast iron statements by the pro cannabis crowd are as totally weak as that statement?

You're ignoring the question.

You're claiming that canabis is destroying more lives than alcohol.

The website you're referencing shows the opposite:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

And it turns out, paracetamol is responsible for more deaths than cannabis.

Are you concerned about that? Or does that not suit your bias?

[Volvolover]

thewarlock said:

Volvolover said:

I am only providing the answer to the challenge i was given when i scoffed at the 'no recorded deaths'....i have provided the proof that there are. Are you disputing that proof?

How many other cast iron statements by the pro cannabis crowd are as totally weak as that statement?

You're ignoring the question.

You're claiming that canabis is destroying more lives than alcohol.

The website you're referencing shows the opposite:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

And it turns out, paracetamol is responsible for more deaths than cannabis.

Are you concerned about that? Or does that not suit your bias?

As i've already said i have just recounted my experiences from 5 years in prisons.

I've also said that the data on 'recorded deaths' is never going to show anything like the true story either for the reasons given.


You are way too black and white.......... do you perhaps thing paracetamol kills more people because its readily available, cheap and vulnerable people use it to overdose with? Not only that but for those people paracetamol isnt the cause of death either, lack of/failure of mental healthcare is.

But then again, that doesn't suit your narrative does it......

[thewarlock]

Volvolover said:

You are way too black and white.......... do you perhaps thing paracetamol kills more people because its readily available, cheap and vulnerable people use it to overdose with? Not only that but for those people paracetamol isnt the cause of death either, lack of/failure of mental healthcare is.

But then again, that doesn't suit your narrative does it......

To be clear, it's you that's provided the link to these figures.

And now you've decided that those dying of paracetamol are dying from lack of mental healthcare. But not those dying form cannabis 'poisoning'?

My narrative? I'm looking at facts, you seem to be making some bits up as you go along.

[DaveE87]

There's a difference between addiction to alcohol and a psychological dependence on cannabis. It's not a fine line, alcohol requires weaning off of it whereas cannabis just requires willpower.

I've smoked cannabis on and off for years, but when I've stopped it the only thing that works is going "cold turkey". It's been at least six months since I've touched the stuff and all it took was determination. Yes it can affect mental health but only if you abuse it. Sometimes I "abuse" food and gain weight.

Using cannabis with tobacco isn't healthy but if you use it on its own, say in a dry herb vaporiser or decarboxylated for use in food (the vaporiser puts it through this process too), it's a much cleaner high and can be used medically to help with physical, nerve and muscular pain. I still occasionally use CBD oil, especially after a hard workout as it works as a muscle relaxant.

It's not a wonder drug that kills cancer cells like some claim, but there's nowhere enough research in to the medical benefits due to the prohibition that has existed for years. Look in to why it was banned and it's clear that it wasn't banned for health reasons - Harry J Anslinger and his propaganda like Reefer Madness simply said things that aren't true yet some still trot that same crap out today.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/harry-anslinger-t...

[Volvolover]

thewarlock said:

Volvolover said:

You are way too black and white.......... do you perhaps thing paracetamol kills more people because its readily available, cheap and vulnerable people use it to overdose with? Not only that but for those people paracetamol isnt the cause of death either, lack of/failure of mental healthcare is.

But then again, that doesn't suit your narrative does it......

To be clear, it's you that's provided the link to these figures.

And now you've decided that those dying of paracetamol are dying from lack of mental healthcare. But not those dying form cannabis 'poisoning'?

My narrative? I'm looking at facts, you seem to be making some bits up as you go along.

No i'm giving you hard facts as they are published and an insight into the context of them and why they pretty much don't mean a lot. It still shows recorded deaths though of which it was claimed there are zero.

[thewarlock]

Volvolover said:

thewarlock said:

Volvolover said:

You are way too black and white.......... do you perhaps thing paracetamol kills more people because its readily available, cheap and vulnerable people use it to overdose with? Not only that but for those people paracetamol isnt the cause of death either, lack of/failure of mental healthcare is.

But then again, that doesn't suit your narrative does it......

To be clear, it's you that's provided the link to these figures.

And now you've decided that those dying of paracetamol are dying from lack of mental healthcare. But not those dying form cannabis 'poisoning'?

My narrative? I'm looking at facts, you seem to be making some bits up as you go along.

No i'm giving you hard facts as they are published and an insight into the context of them and why they pretty much don't mean a lot. It still shows recorded deaths though of which it was claimed there are zero.

Is the highlighted part a 'hard fact'?

Or you introducing your bias/opinion and trying to pass it off as fact?

You clearly stated that cannabis is ruining more lives than alcohol. The 'hard facts' do not support that assertion.

[Volvolover]

thewarlock said:

Volvolover said:

thewarlock said:

Volvolover said:

You are way too black and white.......... do you perhaps thing paracetamol kills more people because its readily available, cheap and vulnerable people use it to overdose with? Not only that but for those people paracetamol isnt the cause of death either, lack of/failure of mental healthcare is.

But then again, that doesn't suit your narrative does it......

To be clear, it's you that's provided the link to these figures.

And now you've decided that those dying of paracetamol are dying from lack of mental healthcare. But not those dying form cannabis 'poisoning'?

My narrative? I'm looking at facts, you seem to be making some bits up as you go along.

No i'm giving you hard facts as they are published and an insight into the context of them and why they pretty much don't mean a lot. It still shows recorded deaths though of which it was claimed there are zero.

Is the highlighted part a 'hard fact'?

Or you introducing your bias/opinion and trying to pass it off as fact?

You clearly stated that cannabis is ruining more lives than alcohol. The 'hard facts' do not support that assertion.

I have said all along in my opinion from my observation.......I am not or have never tried to prove it with ONS data. the ONS data is merely to point out there are recorded deaths which someone stated there werent as fact.

The bit above about paraceteamol is just to highlight you cant interpret the numbers in isolation or the 'reasons' for death particularly.


I haven't made any statements of fact such as...."There are no recoded deaths due to Cannabis"........... what I have done is disprove that with factual data and prior to that offered my opinion based on my life experience in prisons etc.

The readers can decide whether they see this life experience as more valuable than the views of a casual(non casual) 'user' who is clearly pro cannabis biased. Also as already stated, I don't care either way as it wont affect my life of my experiences.

[Griffith4ever]

Volvolover said:

thewarlock said:

Interesting to see the difference on there between the standardised death rates of cannabis compared to say, paracetamol, or say, any anti-depressant.

Are you in favour of making those illegal?

I am only providing the answer to the challenge i was given when i scoffed at the 'no recorded deaths'....i have provided the proof that there are. Are you disputing that proof?

How many other cast iron statements by the pro cannabis crowd are as totally weak as that statement?

Well, I asked, and you provided.

When you select "Without other drugs", you get (these are "cannabis deaths" with 2020 on the left, working back year by year.

7 7 2 3 3 4 7 1 0 1 2 1 2 1 2 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1

So largely 0 to 1, with a peak in the last two years.

I will say I don't believe that any of them were cannabis alone. As backed up by this:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/can-marijua...

And do you know what, even if it IS possible to be poisoned to death by cannabis, the numbers... look at them, Most years it never gets above 1....... That is insignificant in the extreme. Probably a lower rate than Elvis crashing his spaceship into the Lochness monster.

[DaveE87]

Cannabis poisoning requires the ingestion of 1500lbs of it in 15 minutes. 15grams in 15 minutes would be an achievement.

[DaveE87]

Volvolover said:

I have said all along in my opinion from my observation.......I am not or have never tried to prove it with ONS data. the ONS data is merely to point out there are recorded deaths which someone stated there werent as fact.

The bit above about paraceteamol is just to highlight you cant interpret the numbers in isolation or the 'reasons' for death particularly.


I haven't made any statements of fact such as...."There are no recoded deaths due to Cannabis"........... what I have done is disprove that with factual data and prior to that offered my opinion based on my life experience in prisons etc.

The readers can decide whether they see this life experience as more valuable than the views of a casual(non casual) 'user' who is clearly pro cannabis biased. Also as already stated, I don't care either way as it wont affect my life of my experiences.

So now it's in your opinion from your observation rather than cold hard facts Would you like to move the goalposts again?

Can you give any insight in to how those figures are constructed? One could surmise that a suicide has cannabis as a contributing factor when in reality they might just have had metabolites of it in their bloodstream. You don't want to engage with me anymore it seems as I'm a 'user'? Would you try discredit opinions on alcohol from a 'user' that hasn't had a drink for a while? Try reading the links that I've posted and tell me what you disagree with. They contain some cold hard facts.

[vetrof]

Griffith4ever said:

Well, I asked, and you provided.

When you select "Without other drugs", you get (these are "cannabis deaths" with 2020 on the left, working back year by year.

7 7 2 3 3 4 7 1 0 1 2 1 2 1 2 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1

And even then, from Box 2 in 'Definitions' sheet says
"Deaths are included where only one substance was mentioned on the death certificate (alcohol may also have been mentioned)."

So alcohol could actually be the reason.