Police and Crime Commissioner absolute farce.

[SMGB]

The Sheeyey report (scuse spelling) was a missed opportunity. maybe we can now get some consumer input into the Police budget. no one begrudges the front line a decent living and the kit they need plus good provision for them or dependants if the worst happens, but there is a ton of deadwood for every hard working PC. If some sunlight breaks through as a result of an unbiased non native examination then a lot more bang per buck can be liberated.
just re-read this in a fit of narcicism and of course criminals will not want the front line BiBs properly resourced. just before some else points this out

Edited by SMGB on Tuesday 23 October 15:03

[streaky]

First preference: "Nobody"

Second preference: "Nobody else either"

For the first time in many years of voting, I am minded to spoil my ballot paper.

Streaky

[Red 4]

sugerbear said:

The police force should be kept as non-political as possible.

Dream on.

Don't forget HMCIC Tom Winsor.

[Efbe]

Why should I or any other average joe have the faintest idea what the police should be focusing on or doing?

I have absolutely no knowledge of the procedures, actual statistics (not just media peddled crap) or anything to do with crime. so how the hell can I decide what should be done?

[ClaphamGT3]

FiF said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

So where is the evidence of transformational change within the police service?

I don't doubt that a lot of re-organisation and tactical/operational change goes on, as with any organisation, but where is the evidence that the police have explored and, where appropriate, embraced transformational change that keeps the service aligned to the needs of the society it serves?

I keep asking this question here & all the BiB/BiB/ supporters keep ducking it.

Probably because you just keep coming out with Bullst Bingo phrases.

You are just like Stuart on the Thick of It. Be on your way.

Sorry if big words scare you.......

Yet more bluster and still no answer to a simple question.

[Red 4]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Sorry if big words scare you.......

Yet more bluster and still no answer to a simple question.

What are "the needs of society" regarding policing ?

In your opinion ?

[Elroy Blue]

Efbe said:

Why should I or any other average joe have the faintest idea what the police should be focusing on or doing?

I have absolutely no knowledge of the procedures, actual statistics (not just media peddled crap) or anything to do with crime. so how the hell can I decide what should be done?

Somebody with a sense of realism and honesty.

My m/way unit has been visited by many a Politician and I always ask them what they think we do. "Traffic" is always the reply. I as them what that means. "Speeding and eerrr..something else"

It's scary. 5% of our work is 'traffic'. We are focused towards organised crime groups (drugs, HGV theft, cash seizures, Vehicle theft) and have seized £15 million pounds worth of drugs last year. That's drugs being transported from one area to another. That's on top of millions in cash seized, millions of pounds of stolen vehicles (We've recovered dozens of BMWs and arrested the gangs involved more than once).

But the Politician sees us as 'traffic'. Traffic doesn't get votes (apparently we run the speed cameras when in fact they are nothing whatsoever to do with us). We are currently at risk of being disbanded due to the cuts. So all those drugs will be reaching their destination.

Never mind. I'm sure the PCCs will sort it out.

[oldsoak]

streaky said:

First preference: "Nobody"

Second preference: "Nobody else either"

For the first time in many years of voting, I am minded to spoil my ballot paper.

Streaky

Somehow, I very much doubt you will be alone...

[ClaphamGT3]

Elroy Blue said:

Efbe said:

Why should I or any other average joe have the faintest idea what the police should be focusing on or doing?

I have absolutely no knowledge of the procedures, actual statistics (not just media peddled crap) or anything to do with crime. so how the hell can I decide what should be done?

Somebody with a sense of realism and honesty.

My m/way unit has been visited by many a Politician and I always ask them what they think we do. "Traffic" is always the reply. I as them what that means. "Speeding and eerrr..something else"

It's scary. 5% of our work is 'traffic'. We are focused towards organised crime groups (drugs, HGV theft, cash seizures, Vehicle theft) and have seized £15 million pounds worth of drugs last year. That's drugs being transported from one area to another. That's on top of millions in cash seized, millions of pounds of stolen vehicles (We've recovered dozens of BMWs and arrested the gangs involved more than once).

But the Politician sees us as 'traffic'. Traffic doesn't get votes (apparently we run the speed cameras when in fact they are nothing whatsoever to do with us). We are currently at risk of being disbanded due to the cuts. So all those drugs will be reaching their destination.

Never mind. I'm sure the PCCs will sort it out.

I suspect that they'll do nothing of the sort but what is the credible alternative that you're putting forward?

[ClaphamGT3]

Red 4 said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

Sorry if big words scare you.......

Yet more bluster and still no answer to a simple question.

What are "the needs of society" regarding policing ?

In your opinion ?

In my opinion, the needs of society in relation to policing are;

A police service that recognises that it polices by consent and makes itself directly accountable to society through independent scrutiny and governance

A police service that is affordable whilst delivering its mandate

A police service that serves the law abiding many by protecting then from the law breaking few

A police service that adheres to a code of professional standards and is subject independent sanction, up to criminal prosecution, when it breaches them

A police service that knows - and sticks to - its place in the criminal justice system

Sadly, we've drifted some way away from that.

[Elroy Blue]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I suspect that they'll do nothing of the sort but what is the credible alternative that you're putting forward?

Jesus. This "I know best" rubbish you continually come out with really is juvenile at best.

I'll say it again. My unit is under review. Not might be, not 'nothing of the sort', not won't be, a comprehensive review is taking place. It is now waiting for the PCC outcome.

Now I know you'll just repeat the same post again. How about answering questions put to you. You seem to have all the answers, you just never say what they are.

[ClaphamGT3]

Elroy Blue said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

I suspect that they'll do nothing of the sort but what is the credible alternative that you're putting forward?

Jesus. This "I know best" rubbish you continually come out with really is juvenile at best.

I'll say it again. My unit is under review. Not might be, not 'nothing of the sort', not won't be, a comprehensive review is taking place. It is now waiting for the PCC outcome.

Now I know you'll just repeat the same post again. How about answering questions put to you. You seem to have all the answers, you just never say what they are.

you might like to actually read my post. I actually said that I don't believe the PCC's will do anything of the sort.

What I want to know from the 'all-knowing' police officers on here, who are so very quick to criticise anything that suggests change, what credible alternatives that they have for reforming the police service. You continually tell those of us uninitiates who have the temerity to post here that we don't know what we are talking about yet you never enlighten us with what you believe lies within the art of the possible.

Its a simple enough question; all you have to do is answer it and we will all be genuinely enlightened by an informed point of view.

[rs1952]

oldsoak said:

streaky said:

First preference: "Nobody"

Second preference: "Nobody else either"

For the first time in many years of voting, I am minded to spoil my ballot paper.

Streaky

Somehow, I very much doubt you will be alone...

So that's three of us so far .....

[Red 4]

ClaphamGT3 said:

In my opinion, the needs of society in relation to policing are;

A police service that recognises that it polices by consent and makes itself directly accountable to society through independent scrutiny and governance

A police service that is affordable whilst delivering its mandate

A police service that serves the law abiding many by protecting then from the law breaking few

A police service that adheres to a code of professional standards and is subject independent sanction, up to criminal prosecution, when it breaches them

A police service that knows - and sticks to - its place in the criminal justice system

Sadly, we've drifted some way away from that.

1. It's called the IPCC.

2. Affordable ? Budgets are set they are not infinite. As for delivering "its mandate" that really depends on what "its mandate" is. Expect more politics and less policing.

3. Police officers (not police "managers") tend to enjoy catching criminals despite being hampered by internal politics and dealing with issues that are not police related.

4. PSD has been around for a while. It used to be called Complaints and Discipline. The police service is very disciplined, contrary to what you may or may not believe. Much more so than most professions.

5. Police investigate. CPS prosecute. The courts convict or acquit. Nothing has changed.

I don't think you have quite grasped what the police actually do or the service provided.

Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 23 October 16:21

[ClaphamGT3]

Red 4 said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

In my opinion, the needs of society in relation to policing are;

A police service that recognises that it polices by consent and makes itself directly accountable to society through independent scrutiny and governance

A police service that is affordable whilst delivering its mandate

A police service that serves the law abiding many by protecting then from the law breaking few

A police service that adheres to a code of professional standards and is subject independent sanction, up to criminal prosecution, when it breaches them

A police service that knows - and sticks to - its place in the criminal justice system

Sadly, we've drifted some way away from that.

1. It's called the IPCC.

2. Affordable ? Budgets are set they are not infinite. As for delivering "its mandate" that really depends on what "its mandate" is. Expect more politics and less policing.

3. Police officers (not police "managers") tend to enjoy catching criminals.

4. PSD has been around for a while. It used to be called Complaints and Discipline. The police service is very disciplined, contrary to what you may or may not believe. Much more so than most professions.

5. Police investigate. CPS prosecute. The courts convict or acquit. Nothing has changed.

I don't think you have quite grasped what the police actually do or the service provided.

I think that you are mixing up theory and reality.

[Red 4]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I think that you are mixing up theory and reality.

Nope, I am very much a realist. (and I actually have some idea what I am talking about).

[ClaphamGT3]

Red 4 said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

I think that you are mixing up theory and reality.

Nope, I am very much a realist. (and I actually have some idea what I am talking about).

Of course you do poppet - all the answers, haven't you?

[SMGB]

ClaphamGT3 said:

Red 4 said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

I think that you are mixing up theory and reality.

Nope, I am very much a realist. (and I actually have some idea what I am talking about).

Of course you do poppet - all the answers, haven't you?

This sort of attitude seems to confirm that the Police are set in their ways, very comforatable and long overdue for scrutiny from the society they serve.
I personally would vote for a PCC who admitted the "War on Drugs" is unwinnable and campaigned for a policy of legalisation with Govt involment limited to informing us of the dangers, as with tobacco and alchohol.

[Elroy Blue]

SMGB said:

This sort of attitude seems to confirm that the Police are set in their ways, very comforatable and long overdue for scrutiny from the society they serve.

Constant change over the 20 years I've been in. Good and bad.

Try Policing a city on a Friday night with 6 Officers, then coming into work nect day and finding e-mails from 'efficiency managers' telling you you haven't met the latest Government targets (that allegedly don't exist) Comfortable it ain't

If you can find another profession that is subject of the same scrutiny that Police Officers face, I'd be glad to hear it.

[eldar]

Elroy Blue said:

But the Politician sees us as 'traffic'. Traffic doesn't get votes (apparently we run the speed cameras when in fact they are nothing whatsoever to do with us). We are currently at risk of being disbanded due to the cuts. So all those drugs will be reaching their destination.

Never mind. I'm sure the PCCs will sort it out.

Are you surprised 'traffic' and speed camera are associated? Trigger a camera, and the police send you a letter. See the odd flash sripey car or 4x4 wandering up the motorway. For most people that is their only contact with the police except watching them racing around after chavs on Police camera action.

You(or your glorious leaders) reap what they sow, rightly or wrongly.