Sold a car with faulty thermostats - my rights?

[Roo]

surveyor said:

To be fair to the OP, the dealer is being shabby

Customer: "Hello, can you tell me if the thermostat is ok in this car"

Dealer: Strange question. Goes out and starts the car and let's it run up to temperature without overheating. "Yeah, it's fine."

[TroubledSoul]

Alright, well, an update. I decided that I shouldn't have to pay for it and figured out what I wanted to say.

I emailed the dealer this morning:

My Email said:

Hi XXX,

Hope you're well. I am just contacting you to let you know that I have been advised that under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 it is actually down to the trader to rectify faults present at time of sale, rather than go through a warranty etc. and that the car must be as described at the time of sale.

As I have no wish to become a problem customer or a pain in the backside for you guys, I am happy to get the repair done myself and invoice you for it if it's easier. I have been quoted £517 by BMW and £246 by a local BMW specialist. I'm more than happy to have the work done by the specialist rather than the BMW main dealer.

In all honesty, I am not thrilled at the condition of the wheels, which have been touched up rather than given the promised refurb, and I don't think a great job was done of the paint correction on the rear bumper, but I can live with those things so long as the thermostats are sorted, as having the vehicle in proper mechanical order is far more important to me.

I look forward to hearing back from you and hope you can understand my desire to see things put right with as little hassle as possible.

Many thanks,
TroubledSoul

I received the following not long after:

Dealer Email said:

Hi TroubledSoul, the problem we have is we don’t think there is a problem now? We had the garage do the relavent checks and they are completely happy with the thermostats?
Im sorry to hear you are not happy with the alloys, we have paid for full refurbishments please send me pics so I can discuss it with the wheel company!

Ive spoke with the owner and he suggests if you are not happy about the thermostats or alloys then we are are sorry and if you wish to return the car for a full refund then we will happily do that?

A little bit unexpected in all honesty. I am currently mulling over what to do, but there are no others in the same price bracket with this spec. I don't want to give up the HUD or the comfort seats, as both are fantastic features that really add to the car for me.

The other things is, with buying this car, upgrading my phone last week and recently obtaining a credit card, I doubt I'd get finance very easily again until a good 6 - 12 months has passed, so could be shooting myself in the foot were I to return the car. I could very easily end up with just my £6k cash to spend on a replacement. It's far more hassle than I really want.

I can't fault them for so readily offering to refund, but it seems like overkill and I would rather keep the car but have the thermostats done than give it back and have to find another.

What are peoples' thoughts?

[valais]

I agree with tonker.

They are being very reasonable - what's better than a full refund?

Their fear is - 2 months down the line another minor fault, or list of faults that they must fix.

[TroubledSoul]

That's what I thought.

However, I don't want to return the car, I just want the fault rectifying

It would be far too much hassle to find another and I don't want to keep hammering my credit file and risk not being able to get finance if I did have to find another. I'm quite cautious about this as I used to have a terrible credit record and have spent the last few years meticulously repairing it.

[mondeoman]

IMHO:

Thermostats fail. Suddenly. There is no way of knowing that this is going to happen, so you cant really go after the dealer for that to be repaired, thats what the warranty is for. If you don't like the AA warranty, pay more for a new one. Add that to the fact that dealer is claiming his garage/mechanics say the t'stats are OK, this is only going to get awkward and cause more hassle than its worth.

Now you're bringing the alloys and bumper into the deal as well...

Personally, I'd suggest that you get the AA to do the thermostat under warranty, or offer to split the cost with the dealer, at the specialist rate (not BMW!!!) and move on.

[surveyor]

Roo said:

surveyor said:

To be fair to the OP, the dealer is being shabby

Customer: "Hello, can you tell me if the thermostat is ok in this car"

Dealer: Strange question. Goes out and starts the car and let's it run up to temperature without overheating. "Yeah, it's fine."

Customer: "Hello, that thermostat you said is ok isn't"

Dealer "That's not so good sir. Get the car back and we'll check it. If it needs sorting it will be sorted", not "wait a couple of weeks sir so that the warranty company can deal with something that I should be paying for"

[Engineer1]

Customer comes over bolshie with a reference to SOGA, Dealer decides customer may be a liability.

[markmullen]

Engineer1 said:

Customer comes over bolshie with a reference to SOGA, Dealer decides customer may be a liability.

[TroubledSoul]

Hmm... I was trying to come across as friendly rather than bolshy. I just wanted to say "look, I'm not out to cause you trouble, but I do know my rights and that this is a fault you should be sorting."

I'm not sure there's an easy way to say that without it coming across as it has.

[Blue Oval84]

There isn't unfortunately

I think that the problem is that for most people, a thermostat is deemed as working when the car starts, rises to temp and doesn't overheat. Do they know that you're actually wanting them to check the computers to read the exact engine temp?

Unfortunately as has been said, they probably now think that if you have any problems with the car then you'll be darkening their doorstep for months to come and have, quite reasonably offered you a full refund. I also think that this offer would make it harder for you to claim they've breached SOGA (but someone who knows what they're talking about may think differently)

I'd just find a trusted independent and get them done yourself, I definitely wouldn't give up a 5 Series with comfort seats, they make the car IMO.

[Jazzer77]

markmullen said:

Engineer1 said:

Customer comes over bolshie with a reference to SOGA, Dealer decides customer may be a liability.

Bringing up the wheels and bumper repair, which you had an opportunity to inspect, was a touch too far.
I assume the dealer knows its a sensible car at a sensible price and has asked for it back to end any future heartache.

[TroubledSoul]

Blue Oval84 said:

There isn't unfortunately

I think that the problem is that for most people, a thermostat is deemed as working when the car starts, rises to temp and doesn't overheat. Do they know that you're actually wanting them to check the computers to read the exact engine temp?

Unfortunately as has been said, they probably now think that if you have any problems with the car then you'll be darkening their doorstep for months to come and have, quite reasonably offered you a full refund. I also think that this offer would make it harder for you to claim they've breached SOGA (but someone who knows what they're talking about may think differently)

I'd just find a trusted independent and get them done yourself, I definitely wouldn't give up a 5 Series with comfort seats, they make the car IMO.

They do, and as my partner suffers from chronic muscle and joint aches, these seats are a godsend. And now that I have had the HUD display also, I really wouldn't want a car without these two things.

I fear his offer of a refund is to make me unable to chase him. He knows he would sell the car again quite easily IMO and so there's no skin off of their noses if they refund and take it back. Alternatively they may just be unhappy that a customer is unhappy with the car and want to take it back and refund said customer as they may feel it is the right thing to do. I don't want to presumptuous to be honest.

I have replied back I thanked him for the very reasonable offer of a refund but advised him that I would be reluctant to return the car as it is the spec I want and would be very happy if this issue was resolved.

[dingg]

Troubled Soul = customer from hell

the garage has offered you a full refund , you are not going to get anything else out of them.

suck it up or take the car back for refund

[valais]

dingg said:

Troubled Soul = customer from hell

A bit harsh, he hasn't been unreasonable. But the dealer has reacted in an unexpected way I guess by offering the full refund, my guess triggered by quoting SOGA.

[TroubledSoul]

dingg said:

Troubled Soul = customer from hell

the garage has offered you a full refund , you are not going to get anything else out of them.

suck it up or take the car back for refund

Dingg = Idiot.

How am I a customer from hell? If I was, I'd have asked for all sorts!

[dingg]

you are whinging about wheels AFTER you inspected the car , you're whinging about the paintwork AFTER inspecting the car

the dealer could find nothing wrong with the thermostat (in his opinion there's nowt wrong with the car)

he offered you a full refund to get rid of you , you do not want that

you will never be happy (in his eyes)

= customer from hell

my take on thing is :-

you will end up getting the job done yourself and suing the garage in the small claims court for the cost.

you will lose your case , the garage has offered your money back - TAKE IT thats all you're going to get.

[ThunderSpook]

ThunderSpook said:

Not sure if this helps at all but I had the thermostats replaced on my E61 when I bought it. It was £216 inc vat from the BMW main dealer. You're getting ripped off at over £500.

I'd just like to reiterate my earlier post, and add that if it's the car you want then it's probably just easier to get it fixed yourself.

I can even send you a copy of the invoice if it would help with negotiations. Even £246 from an indie sounds pricey.

[TroubledSoul]

dingg said:

you are whinging about wheels AFTER you inspected the car , you're whinging about the paintwork AFTER inspecting the car

the dealer could find nothing wrong with the thermostat (in his opinion there's nowt wrong with the car)

he offered you a full refund to get rid of you , you do not want that

you will never be happy (in his eyes)

= customer from hell

my take on thing is :-

you will end up getting the job done yourself and suing the garage in the small claims court for the cost.

you will lose your case , the garage has offered your money back - TAKE IT thats all you're going to get.

No I am not, I am highlighting that there were small things that weren't quite right but because I still liked the car overall, I haven't complained about them.

I have merely expressed tot hem that I am not one to just complain about things off the cuff and want them fixing. It's only when a mechanical issue has reared its head that I have requested assistance.

I don't think that that's unreasonable.

Why on earth should I return a car that I am otherwise happy with? It's really nice of them to offer to refund and I have said as much to them. I appreciate it.

[TroubledSoul]

ThunderSpook said:

I'd just like to reiterate my earlier post, and add that if it's the car you want then it's probably just easier to get it fixed yourself.

I can even send you a copy of the invoice if it would help with negotiations. Even £246 from an indie sounds pricey.

Thanks, I completely missed that. I'd be very interested to see the invoice if you would. Many thanks!

[JM]

Have you explained the issue you have with the thermostats and how you checked it?

Have you offered to drop in with the car and to demonstrate the problem to them and their mechanic?

Maybe doing that would convince them there was a problem and they will fix it, or contribute to fixing it.