Accident while unfit through alcohol within the limit

[agtlaw]

stefankondziu said:

HI my name is Konrad , a while ago my wife had an accident on the road after the accident she failed the breath test by 0.15 after a couple of hours she had a blood test done and that one was 0.50 which is within the legal limit. Police did not take the case to court for drink driving but the investigation is in progress for careless driving. My insurance company said they will not pay me out because she had alcohol in her blood and that was the cause of the accident. In general exceptions, there is a point
.. if driving while unfit through alcohol, drugs or other substances whether prescribed or not
In my opinion, if British law states that she was not over the legal limit surely she was fit to drive the car otherwise what would be a point to have the legal limit
I have already sent the letter with complaint to the insurance company and today on the phone they said I might be even entitled to pay for the third part expenses

please help if you know a good solisitor which could help me with my case

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17489887 i have found that online and I belive that my insurance company is wrong Please help kind regards Konrad

Unfortunately, this is a misunderstanding and you've focused on one particular offence whilst disregarding another.

Section 4(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 stipulates that, "A person who, when driving or attempting to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place, is unfit to drive through drink or drugs is guilty of an offence."

The prosecutor does not have to prove that a drink drive limit was exceeded if the section 4 is charged - but simply that the driver was "unfit to drive through drink."

A more commonly charged offence is set out in section 5(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988. This offence is made out "(1) If a person— (a) drives or attempts to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, or (b) is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, after consuming so much alcohol that the proportion of it in his breath, blood or urine exceeds the prescribed limit."

The prosecutor does have to prove that a drink drive limit was exceeded if the section 5 offence is charged.

You mentioned that "after a couple of hours" a blood sample of 50µg/100ml was given. The legal limit is 80µg/100ml. In those circumstances, the police could have arranged for a back calculation to be done - to ascertain the blood alcohol reading at the time of driving.

[vonhosen]

The drink drive limit is a number, a line in the sand.
You can be unfit under that limit & you can be unfit over that limit.
You can be fit under that limit & you can be fit over that limit.
In short there doesn't need to be any evidence of impairment for the offence to be committed & no evidence of impairment is not a defence.

For driving unfit there is a separate offence. That offence requires evidence of impairment & that can happen under the drink drive limit, just like it can over the drink drive limit).

If you are talking about recovering costs by suing an insurance company we enter a different arena still.

For the criminal offence the standard of proof is beyond all reasonable doubt.
In civil cases it's on the balance of probabilities.
Ergo a lower standard.
So just because there isn't enough evidence for a criminal prosecution/conviction, doesn't mean there isn't enough evidence to win a civil case.

In saying all that I am not passing any judgements on the merits of this individual case. Just pointing out the lay of the land.

[Gavia]

If found guilty of an offence involving alcohol whilst driving, the insurance company will be able to deny the claim. Without that conviction there is no way to deny it.

It’s that simple in this case.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Gavia said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Wrong, unless it says so in the policy. An excess alcohol clause is usually only applied if you disclose a previous drink / drive offence. Although Admiral have it in their standard wording for all customers .

But for most people with a normal policy not with Admiral, being drunk does not effect the insurance position. Insurance is to cover you against doing stupid things, even illegal things. Drunk, speeding, driving too close to car in front, driving carelessly, that's what you're insuring for. If you crashed your car doing 40 in a 30, you'd expect to be covered. So over the drink limit is covered too.

You need to update your knowledge and lay off Admiral. Drink driving clauses for own damage are widespread across the industry as this case demonstrates (see policy booklet)

Hastings Direct an another cut price bucket shop. Buy a proper policy from Aviva, Allianz, Zurich etc and you won't find it. Unfortunately these days too many people buy solely on price.

[Gavia]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Hastings Direct an another cut price bucket shop. Buy a proper policy from Aviva, Allianz, Zurich etc and you won't find it. Unfortunately these days too many people buy solely on price.

So your advice is to make sure you buy a policy that meets your needs. In other words make sure that you get cover for drink driving, as it’s an important part of cover?

It wouldn’t bother me one iota if any policy I bought had an exclusion for own damage whilst drink driving, as I don’t do it, nor do I make the “innocent mistake” people talk about. My indemnity to others isn’t impacted, the cover remains fully in place for that, as there is no exclusion for this.

Would you consider RSA one of the insurers selling proper policies? Here’s their in house brand More Than. Page 24 Policy exceptions Secrion K

https://www.morethan.com/media/filer_public/81/af/...

Edited by Gavia on Monday 23 April 20:46

[Sa Calobra]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Hastings Direct an another cut price bucket shop. Buy a proper policy from Aviva, Allianz, Zurich etc and you won't find it. Unfortunately these days too many people buy solely on price.

Not sure if you are serious

[Flibble]

Sa Calobra said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Hastings Direct an another cut price bucket shop. Buy a proper policy from Aviva, Allianz, Zurich etc and you won't find it. Unfortunately these days too many people buy solely on price.

Not sure if you are serious

I think he is, he has some sort of axe to grind with low price insurers and Admiral in particular.

[Flumpo]

Was she on her way to work? Another thread recently said her employer will be responsible. Google it for proof.

[stefankondziu]

I just got the letter from police with two charges

careless driving
failing to stop

I spoke with solicitors which are specialized in road traffic charges and been told to admit to careless driving and ask to withdraw failing to stop charges as it was caused by shock it could end up with 9 points and fine

Now coming back to my claim I spoke with a number of claim dispute specialists and a couple of them came back to me that we got good arguments to win the case no I need to find and choose the right one

PLEASE IF ANYBODY KNOW A GOOD CLAIM DISPUTE SOLICITOR PLEASE GET ME HIS DETAILS

also many thanks for help

[Gavia]

stefankondziu said:

I just got the letter from police with two charges

careless driving
failing to stop

I spoke with solicitors which are specialized in road traffic charges and been told to admit to careless driving and ask to withdraw failing to stop charges as it was caused by shock it could end up with 9 points and fine

Now coming back to my claim I spoke with a number of claim dispute specialists and a couple of them came back to me that we got good arguments to win the case no I need to find and choose the right one

PLEASE IF ANYBODY KNOW A GOOD CLAIM DISPUTE SOLICITOR PLEASE GET ME HIS DETAILS

also many thanks for help

Why do you need more recommendations for solicitors? You’ve just said you’ve spoken to a couple of specialists who think you’ve got a good case. Why not use one of them?

Is it because your story is a load of bull?

[stefankondziu]

there again you will find one mupped which will actually think that he know more than me LISEN MY FRIEND IF YOU WOULD GO THRU BULL @#!@!# LIKE THIS let's SAY PLUS MINUS 80 000 POUNDS WOULD YOU PREFER TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO REPREZENT YOU BEEN RECOMMENDED BY SOMEBODY WHO HAD a SIMILAR CASE. THIS CASE ITS DIFICULT FOR ME AND MY FAMILY SO PLEASE KEEP YOUR SILLY COMENTS FOR YOUR SELF AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE I HOPE THING LIKE THIS WILL NEVER HAPPED TO YOU BUT IF IT WILL PLEASE COME BACK TO PISTON HEADS FOR SOME ADVICE

[Gavia]

stefankondziu said:

there again you will find one mupped which will actually think that he know more than me LISEN MY FRIEND IF YOU WOULD GO THRU BULL @#!@!# LIKE THIS let's SAY PLUS MINUS 80 000 POUNDS WOULD YOU PREFER TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO REPREZENT YOU BEEN RECOMMENDED BY SOMEBODY WHO HAD a SIMILAR CASE. THIS CASE ITS DIFICULT FOR ME AND MY FAMILY SO PLEASE KEEP YOUR SILLY COMENTS FOR YOUR SELF AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE I HOPE THING LIKE THIS WILL NEVER HAPPED TO YOU BUT IF IT WILL PLEASE COME BACK TO PISTON HEADS FOR SOME ADVICE

Calm down dear, it’s only a forum.

You’ve said you’ve spoken to a few claims specialists who reckon you’ve got a case. So once again, why not use these specialists, rather than keep asking for recommendations for a claims specialist solicitor? I’d have thought you’d be better off using someone you’ve spoken to rather than a recommendation from anonymous people on the internet.

I’ve already offered to do this for free and could do it with ease, all I need is one small bit of proof from you. Post a photo of the letter from Hastings that denies your claim. Feel free to remove your personal details.

[Sa Calobra]

stefankondziu said:

I just got the letter from police with two charges

careless driving
failing to stop

I spoke with solicitors which are specialized in road traffic charges and been told to admit to careless driving and ask to withdraw failing to stop charges as it was caused by shock it could end up with 9 points and fine

Now coming back to my claim I spoke with a number of claim dispute specialists and a couple of them came back to me that we got good arguments to win the case no I need to find and choose the right one

PLEASE IF ANYBODY KNOW A GOOD CLAIM DISPUTE SOLICITOR PLEASE GET ME HIS DETAILS

also many thanks for help

Please go away.

[ciege]

[stefankondziu]

hoping someone had a similar situation and give me direction at the moment I am waiting for a final decision from hasting i already got http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk involved

please if you don't want to help don't make it worst

and also solicitors which said they want to get involve said they will open file if i make bank transfer so please understand that i am looking for the right guy

[simoid]

How long after she had an accident and failed to stop was she breathalysed and blood tested?

[Sa Calobra]

stefankondziu said:

hoping someone had a similar situation and give me direction at the moment I am waiting for a final decision from hasting i already got http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk involved

please if you don't want to help don't make it worst

and also solicitors which said they want to get involve said they will open file if i make bank transfer so please understand that i am looking for the right guy

Your partner drink drove and left the scene of an accident after getting the car the wrong way round.

[roachcoach]

stefankondziu said:

and also solicitors which said they want to get involve said they will open file if i make bank transfer so please understand that i am looking for the right guy

That's standard I'm afraid.

[martinbiz]

I have never heard of any insurance co that will cover your own damage if prosecuted and convicted of drink driving, further, their is a good chance they will come chasing you to recover their 3rd party outlay which they are obliged to cover.

please can someone post some t &c's to back up their assertions.

OP AGTlaw has already posted some free information for you, have you thought to try and contact him about this, if you are expecting to sort this without spending any money you are doomed from the start.

[TooMany2cvs]

Falling asleep and hitting another car head-on seems to be a fairly good definition of driving that falls below the standard expected of a competent and careful driver, so the careless driving charge seems to be solid.

So really it's just about the insurance.

Do the insurer have grounds to refuse to cover the damage to your car? Their wording says they do - both because she was "found to be over" the limit (which she was, on the roadside breath test) and because she was unfit (possibly arguable, but good luck with that). There's no mention in their wording of prosecuted or found guilty.

Is that enforceable, if it goes to the ombudsman or a court? That's another question...

How much is that aspect of the claim, anyway? Have they said any more about reclaiming the third party's costs? Any rough ballpark on that? (Was the other driver injured, was the other car a shed or was a new Bentley written-off?)