Amber to Red light - lorry.

[TVR1]

SS2. said:

Go and check the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016.

It won't take you all night,

Oh Dear.

If I wanted to know about how traffic lights should be placed and timed, all good. But the ones you’ve Googled have also been superceded.

You do it.

Quote anything, anywhere, that its an offence to pass a stop line on Amber and your vehicle doesn’t fully pass the stop line before a change to red.

Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 19:27

[SS2.]

I'm out for the night now.

I suggest you use the time wisely and check the facts. Will you update the thread when the penny drops and you realise your understanding is flawed ?

[TVR1]

SS2. said:

I'm out for the night now.

I suggest you use the time wisely and check the facts. Will you update the thread when the penny drops and you realise your understanding is flawed ?

You’re out ‘Cos you don’t understand the wording.

You find it.

It’s not there.

It’s how you think you understand it.

Your understanding is flawed, not mine.

Taking it to the next step, is it then an offence to not stop at the lights at the other side of the junction? On red?

Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 19:32

[Cliftonite]

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/offences/traffic_lig...

[TVR1]

Cliftonite said:

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/offences/traffic_lig...

If you read the rest of their question/reply sessions, there’s quite a bit of contradiction there.

Yes, it’s an offence, no it’s not, could be, yes, no.

Have a look at their opinion of stopping on a stop line if traffic is a problem.

Also,

It’s your obligation to make sure you can pass on Green?

Drugs or what?

No one, ever, can ensure they can pass on Green.

Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 20:23

[Cliftonite]

TVR1 said:

Cliftonite said:

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/offences/traffic_lig...

If you read the rest of their question/reply sessions, there’s quite a bit of contradiction there.

Yes, it’s an offence, no it’s not, could be, yes, no.

Have a look at their opinion of stopping on a stop line if traffic is a problem.

You just don't give up, do you? When in a hole, stop digging! (Please)!

Once more:

When light is/turns red: being stationary over a stop line is fine (= no fine!), but moving (any part of your vehicle) over one is not fine (= a potential fine. And points!).

It is not really that hard to understand, is it?

[TVR1]

Cliftonite said:

TVR1 said:

Cliftonite said:

http://www.motorlawyers.co.uk/offences/traffic_lig...

If you read the rest of their question/reply sessions, there’s quite a bit of contradiction there.

Yes, it’s an offence, no it’s not, could be, yes, no.

Have a look at their opinion of stopping on a stop line if traffic is a problem.

You just don't give up, do you? When in a hole, stop digging! (Please)!

Once more:

When light is/turns red: being stationary over a stop line is fine (= no fine!), but moving (any part of your vehicle) over one is not fine (= a potential fine. And points!).

It is not really that hard to understand, is it?

It’s really easy to understand. You’re missing it too.

It’s the act of passing a stop line when the lights are red. Not going through on Amber and then the lights change.

The lights where Amber. Not Red.

And actually, you’ve also clearly not read it either. You quoted that it’s ok to stop after a stop line on red,as long as you don’t let the vehicle completely go over the stop line. Nope. Wrong.

The fact that the lights changed AFTER the vehicle has passed the stop line becomes irrelevant.

Again, please quote me any part off The Highway Code or the RTA that states in offence to pass Amber, in these circumstances and you will have committed an offence if you passed the stop line before the lights changed to red.

[Baaaartz]

Guys there is no point arguing, I was just curious, also from what I have found out as I spoke to the examiner in my company about this, there is a leeway for lorries passing on amber, mistakes do happen and sometimes you can misjudge a space on a junction especially driving an arctic resulting in your trailer back wheels being still before the stop line, you cant simply just stop and not move the lorry to avoid tripping a sensor and avoiding a fine because you would just block the junction.

Anyone driving lorries knows there is a point of no return even if you was to perform an emergency stop you would go past the line anyway and could possibly have an accident with the person behind you.

Also the red light camera would need to flash you twice showing you clearly proceeding through the stop line on a red light and I believe if you only have the back wheels behind the stop line you would set off 1 picture?

I'm pretty sure these junctions with red light cameras are also monitored, you could probably quiete easily get away with it as anyone with common sense will see there was nothing you could do but go on amber light which then changed to red while your tractor unit was way past the line.

You have to remember your driving a 32tonne or 44tonne truck, it's not easy stopping the vehicle instantly even when you have slowed down before the lights, the weight itself pushes the vehicle forward.

[TVR1]

Baaaartz said:

Guys there is no point arguing, I was just curious, also from what I have found out as I spoke to the examiner in my company about this, there is a leeway for lorries passing on amber, mistakes do happen and sometimes you can misjudge a space on a junction especially driving an arctic resulting in your trailer back wheels being still before the stop line, you cant simply just stop and not move the lorry to avoid tripping a sensor and avoiding a fine because you would just block the junction.

Anyone driving lorries knows there is a point of no return even if you was to perform an emergency stop you would go past the line anyway and could possibly have an accident with the person behind you.

Also the red light camera would need to flash you twice showing you clearly proceeding through the stop line on a red light and I believe if you only have the back wheels behind the stop line you would set off 1 picture?

I'm pretty sure these junctions with red light cameras are also monitored, you could probably quiete easily get away with it as anyone with common sense will see there was nothing you could do but go on amber light which then changed to red while your tractor unit was way past the line.

You have to remember your driving a 32tonne or 44tonne truck, it's not easy stopping the vehicle instantly even when you have slowed down before the lights, the weight itself pushes the vehicle forward.

We’re not arguing. We’re having a civilised discussion about different interpretations of the law.

There’s many threads you can have an argument on.

I try to teach inertia. The forward momentum of weight versus stopping distance.

OP, I think I mentioned it a long time ago, on another thread but I do have (had) it’s no longer current, a B double/triple licence. Australia.

I try, as much as I can, to teach awareness, of other vehicles. Yours is a pussycat, In comparison. Lol.

It’s a talent that you have, make no mistake. Don’t put yourself down.

Hey, I think of myself as a great driver, lots of endorsements etc. I can drive anything.

The day I saw some old bugger reversing a B triple, into a pen (200 foot of trailers) with no corrections and no scratches, was my enlightenment.

Sounds like you love what you do!

I’ve a picture, somewhere, that I’ll try and find, me, B triple (with Dog obviously) smashing it through the back of the ahole of beyond to The Highway from South Australia (Tailem Bend, City limits for triples) to Humpty Doo (Northern Territories)

Humpty Doo exist. I promise.

Fong Ding Road. That was my go to base.

Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 21:55

[Baaaartz]

TVR1 said:

We’re not arguing. We’re having a civilised discussion about different interpretations of the law.

There’s many threads you can have an argument on.

I try to teach inertia. The forward momentum of weight versus stopping distance.

OP, I think I mentioned it a long time ago, on another thread but I do have (had) it’s no longer current, a B double/triple licence. Australia.

I try, as much as I can, to teach awareness, of other vehicles. Yours is a pussycat, In comparison. Lol.

It’s a talent that you have, make no mistake. Don’t put yourself down.

Hey, I think of myself as a great driver, lots of endorsements etc. I can drive anything.

The day I saw some old bugger reversing a B triple, into a pen (200 foot of trailers) with no corrections and no scratches, was my enlightenment.

Sounds like you love what you do!

I’ve a picture, somewhere, that I’ll try and find, me, B triple (with Dog obviously) smashing it through the back of the ahole of beyond to The Highway from South Australia (Tailem Bend, City limits for triples) to Humpty Doo (Northern Territories)

Humpty Doo exist. I promise.

Fong Ding Road. That was my go to base.

Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 21:55

Fair enough mate, I'm in the middle of doing my arctic training now, I'm only 21 so to actually be driving even dustcarts at that age and getting experience here in there UK it's a challange in its own as it's hard to get a job due to insurance policies wanting over 25+

I'll get there one day and join the big boys on the road haha.

[TVR1]

Baaaartz said:

TVR1 said:

We’re not arguing. We’re having a civilised discussion about different interpretations of the law.

There’s many threads you can have an argument on.

I try to teach inertia. The forward momentum of weight versus stopping distance.

OP, I think I mentioned it a long time ago, on another thread but I do have (had) it’s no longer current, a B double/triple licence. Australia.

I try, as much as I can, to teach awareness, of other vehicles. Yours is a pussycat, In comparison. Lol.

It’s a talent that you have, make no mistake. Don’t put yourself down.

Hey, I think of myself as a great driver, lots of endorsements etc. I can drive anything.

The day I saw some old bugger reversing a B triple, into a pen (200 foot of trailers) with no corrections and no scratches, was my enlightenment.

Sounds like you love what you do!

I’ve a picture, somewhere, that I’ll try and find, me, B triple (with Dog obviously) smashing it through the back of the ahole of beyond to The Highway from South Australia (Tailem Bend, City limits for triples) to Humpty Doo (Northern Territories)

Humpty Doo exist. I promise.

Fong Ding Road. That was my go to base.

Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 21:55

Fair enough mate, I'm in the middle of doing my arctic training now, I'm only 21 so to actually be driving even dustcarts at that age and getting experience here in there UK it's a challange in its own as it's hard to get a job due to insurance policies wanting over 25+

I'll get there one day and join the big boys on the road haha.

Don’t put yourself down. 21?

Perhaps this is YOUR talent?

Get those quallies, you’ll find that, subject to a couple of not hard convertion tests, many Countries are crying out for HGV drivers.

I’m 50. I’m training to add tracked vehicles to my ADI licence.

I’ve already been offered employment (contract) to MOD if I can pass. I did some work (instructing) over lockdown with Army etc and they suggested it.

Strange things, come from strange things.

[martinbiz]

TVR1 said:

We’re not arguing. We’re having a civilised discussion about different interpretations of the law.

There’s many threads you can have an argument on.

I try to teach inertia. The forward momentum of weight versus stopping distance.

OP, I think I mentioned it a long time ago, on another thread but I do have (had) it’s no longer current, a B double/triple licence. Australia.

I try, as much as I can, to teach awareness, of other vehicles. Yours is a pussycat, In comparison. Lol.

It’s a talent that you have, make no mistake. Don’t put yourself down.

Hey, I think of myself as a great driver, lots of endorsements etc. I can drive anything.

The day I saw some old bugger reversing a B triple, into a pen (200 foot of trailers) with no corrections and no scratches, was my enlightenment.

Sounds like you love what you do!

I’ve a picture, somewhere, that I’ll try and find, me, B triple (with Dog obviously) smashing it through the back of the ahole of beyond to The Highway from South Australia (Tailem Bend, City limits for triples) to Humpty Doo (Northern Territories)

Humpty Doo exist. I promise.

Fong Ding Road. That was my go to base.

Edited by TVR1 on Saturday 5th September 21:55

That’s why the law requires you to drive a large vehicle accordingly. There Is a small chance you may get some discretion shown by a police officer, but not by a camera. There are plenty of cases of people being prosecuted for crossing a red light while moving out of the way for an emergency vehicle

[SS2.]

TVR1 said:

SS2. said:

I'm out for the night now.

I suggest you use the time wisely and check the facts. Will you update the thread when the penny drops and you realise your understanding is flawed ?

You’re out ‘Cos you don’t understand the wording.

You find it.

It’s not there.

It’s how you think you understand it.

Your understanding is flawed, not mine.

Taking it to the next step, is it then an offence to not stop at the lights at the other side of the junction? On red?

You're wrong.

You have been from the outset and, despite your increasingly aggravated (and comical) protestations, you're still wrong.

In Ryan v Smith (1967) 2QB 893, it was held that if a vehicle is partly over the stop line when the light turns to red it is an offence to drive it further forward while the light remains at red. It was further decided in this case that Regulation 34 prohibiting a vehicle passing a red signal relates to any vehicle or any part of any vehicle.

But hey, what does long established case law matter, not to mention the ability to comprehend very clear and plain English ?

Edited by SS2. on Saturday 5th September 23:09

[SS2.]

TVR1 said:

SS2. said:

Go and check the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016.

It won't take you all night,

Oh Dear.

If I wanted to know about how traffic lights should be placed and timed, all good. But the ones you’ve Googled have also been superceded.

Try as you might, I really don't think you could make yourself look any more ignorant than you've done there.

Good work

[TVR1]

SS2. said:

TVR1 said:

SS2. said:

I'm out for the night now.

I suggest you use the time wisely and check the facts. Will you update the thread when the penny drops and you realise your understanding is flawed ?

You’re out ‘Cos you don’t understand the wording.

You find it.

It’s not there.

It’s how you think you understand it.

Your understanding is flawed, not mine.

Taking it to the next step, is it then an offence to not stop at the lights at the other side of the junction? On red?

You're wrong.

You have been from the outset and, despite your increasingly aggravated (and comical) protestations, you're still wrong.

In Ryan v Smith (1967) 2QB 893, it was held that if a vehicle is partly over the stop line when the light turns to red it is an offence to drive it further forward while the light remains at red. It was further decided in this case that Regulation 34 prohibiting a vehicle passing a red signal relates to any vehicle or any part of any vehicle.

But hey, what does long established case law matter, not to mention the ability to comprehend very clear and plain English ?

Edited by SS2. on Saturday 5th September 23:09

Ryan v Smith? From ‘67?


Really? Is that the best you could do?

It’s 2020.

However, whilst it may be case law, it’s not been tested.

It doesn’t mean it’s binding.

In any case, that particular part of the RTA was replaced and updated in 2015, to take into account current traffic conditions. Therefore, ultimately, it’s of no consequence, now.

The Law, is not immovable. It takes into account circumstances of the day.

[TVR1]

SS2. said:

TVR1 said:

SS2. said:

Go and check the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016.

It won't take you all night,

Oh Dear.

If I wanted to know about how traffic lights should be placed and timed, all good. But the ones you’ve Googled have also been superceded.

Try as you might, I really don't think you could make yourself look any more ignorant than you've done there.

Good work

And nor, could you.

If you’d like me to embarrass you on the changes? Happy to.


I guess you’ve been Goooogliiiing!

Googling law in key words are fine.

There’s a few better sources though.

If you’re a lawyer Shame on you.

Seems I can read things better than you.

However, even if i’m incorrect, which I doubt, Ive now gone past my 1 nice person moment per month.

In fact, I’ve done 2, this month.

So, having been nice, you’re wrong. Google all you like

If google is all you have, it clearly shows that you know nothing. If your also a Lawyer, Shame on you.

It’s no
Matter thought, whatever your protestations.

So, to repeat. At this time

I’m correct.

You’re incorrect.

Edited by TVR1 on Sunday 6th September 04:16

[SS2.]

You've been told you were wrong.

You've been proved to be wrong.

It's hilarious watching you digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole.

Keep on shovelling.

[Speed Badger]

martinbiz said:

That’s why the law requires you to drive a large vehicle accordingly. There Is a small chance you may get some discretion shown by a police officer, but not by a camera. There are plenty of cases of people being prosecuted for crossing a red light while moving out of the way for an emergency vehicle

Did anyone see my post on page two? Where I specifically talk about tolerances around red light cameras from a police perspective? They are reviewed by humans, who make a decision.

[martinbiz]

Speed Badger said:

martinbiz said:

That’s why the law requires you to drive a large vehicle accordingly. There Is a small chance you may get some discretion shown by a police officer, but not by a camera. There are plenty of cases of people being prosecuted for crossing a red light while moving out of the way for an emergency vehicle

Did anyone see my post on page two? Where I specifically talk about tolerances around red light cameras from a police perspective? They are reviewed by humans, who make a decision.

Yes and I think you’re guessing, mistaken, or looking back many years ago when Red light cameras were a new thing, c’mon do you really think they have qualified bods sitting there looking at pictures of every infringement to make sure they’re not being unfair. If a defendant thinks it’s unfair they can take it to court, they’re not going to do that job for you, it’s 2020 get in the real world

[GC8]

So much of this is cringe-worthy. It is like an argument about parking, which isnt specifically provided for in law. Every parker isnt prosecuted for obstruction though, so I wonder how this comes about?