S172 - Registration mark fails to conform.
Discussion
Fastdruid said:
So, as others have said, this 14 day rule doesn't apply here (but you *have* to conform to S.172 regardless) *but* I will clarify primarily for anyone finding this later.
The NIP has to be *served* to the registered keeper on or before the 14th day with day zero being the day of the offence.
By served this means delivered, it is assumed that unless evidence is provided to the contrary that if the NIP was sent in time it will arrive in time. If you can *prove* that it wasn't then you might be able to argue that it wasn't.
In your case it doesn't apply but if this was instead speeding then day 1 would be the 24/1/22, day 14 therefore would be the 7th and therefore if you received it on the 8th it would be too late. You would however probably struggle to prove this.
At the risk of dragging the thread further off topic, a NoIP issued by 1st class post would be deemed to have been served two business days after posting.The NIP has to be *served* to the registered keeper on or before the 14th day with day zero being the day of the offence.
By served this means delivered, it is assumed that unless evidence is provided to the contrary that if the NIP was sent in time it will arrive in time. If you can *prove* that it wasn't then you might be able to argue that it wasn't.
In your case it doesn't apply but if this was instead speeding then day 1 would be the 24/1/22, day 14 therefore would be the 7th and therefore if you received it on the 8th it would be too late. You would however probably struggle to prove this.
From the details above, a 1st class NoIP would have been posted beyond the deadline for good service to have been effected.
Assuming the OP was the RK, their DVLA held details were correct and no other exceptions applied, the proof of bad service would have been provided by the NoIP itself.
vonhosen said:
Getragdogleg said:
vonhosen said:
Getragdogleg said:
vonhosen said:
Simple clean line drawn in the sand without ambiguity, just like the drink drive limit or speed limit.
You either comply or you don't.
And yet here we are.You either comply or you don't.
Admittedly we have not seen the plate yet so I'm going to suspend further speculation.
Loving the faith in op !
We need your plates to be readable and to a standard so we can track you down via them if you infringe a regulation.
But we can track you down using them if they also infringe a regulation, so they still work for tracking you down but it's something else we can fine you for.
They are to be made to a clearly legislated & defined standard & they have to satisfy all of that standard.
Any deviation from that standard & they are illegal.
That black/white position is so that there can be no elastic that stretches on the boundaries & an ensuing argument about why this should be legal (when it isn't as a matter of fact). In the same way as saying (when you were doing 35 in a 30 limit) that it wasn't dangerous & I didn't hit anything can open it up to a matter of interpretation as to whether you were exceeding the speed limit or not.
If an allegation is made, that doesn't mean they are illegal.
Whether they are is a matter of fact based on the legislation. They conform with those requirements or they don't.
Blanchimont said:
I have also just checked, and the NIP was issued 13 days after the offense, but arrived 15 days after it. Presumably it's the issue date the 14 day rule applies?
ETA:
Offense date: 23/1/22, Notice Issue date: 05/2/22, received 8/2/22.
NIP is irrelevant to the prosecution of this offence and the s172 has no time limit. Don’t turn a non endorsable offence into a 6 pointer here!ETA:
Offense date: 23/1/22, Notice Issue date: 05/2/22, received 8/2/22.
Edited by Blanchimont on Wednesday 9th February 11:51
bad company said:
I’m no expert but can’t see anything wrong there.
No BS number, no way of identifying the manufacturer or supplier, no name and postcode of the supplying outlet?Government numberplate document said:
... each number plate must be permanently and legibly marked with the:
- British Standard number (currently BS AU 145d) from 1 September 2021 a new standard will become mandatory for all new number plates fitted from that date (BS AU 145e) but can be used from 1 January 2021
- name, trademark or other way of identifying the manufacturer or supplier
- name and postcode of the supplying outlet
I dont think it complies.
Each number plate must be permanently and legibly marked with:
1. British Standard Number
2. Name, trademark or other way of identifying the seller
3. Name and postcode of the supplying outlet
I cannot see that info on the plate in that pic
Edit - Jeremy beat me to it
Each number plate must be permanently and legibly marked with:
1. British Standard Number
2. Name, trademark or other way of identifying the seller
3. Name and postcode of the supplying outlet
I cannot see that info on the plate in that pic
Edit - Jeremy beat me to it
I wouldn't have even given that a second glance.
Whether a former traffic colleague - who had a 'thing' about altered number plates - would I have no idea.
If you've checked the relevant legislation, got the tape measure out & everything is spaced & set out as specified then fight it.
Whilst I appreciate this is only relevant to MOT testing the MOT tester's manual states:
"You do not need to check:
the supplier’s name
postcode
BS number
logos or emblems outside the minimum margin around the registration number"
www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-priv...
ETA Op has said that the plates are marked with details as required. Issue is the set out of the reg itself.
Whether a former traffic colleague - who had a 'thing' about altered number plates - would I have no idea.
If you've checked the relevant legislation, got the tape measure out & everything is spaced & set out as specified then fight it.
Whilst I appreciate this is only relevant to MOT testing the MOT tester's manual states:
"You do not need to check:
the supplier’s name
postcode
BS number
logos or emblems outside the minimum margin around the registration number"
www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-priv...
ETA Op has said that the plates are marked with details as required. Issue is the set out of the reg itself.
Edited by paintman on Thursday 10th February 09:53
paintman said:
I wouldn't have even given that a second glance.
Whether a former traffic colleague - who had a 'thing' about altered number plates - would I have no idea.
If you've checked the relevant legislation, got the tape measure out & everything is spaced & set out as specified then fight it.
And lose because its non compliant?Whether a former traffic colleague - who had a 'thing' about altered number plates - would I have no idea.
If you've checked the relevant legislation, got the tape measure out & everything is spaced & set out as specified then fight it.
jeremyc said:
bad company said:
I’m no expert but can’t see anything wrong there.
No BS number, no way of identifying the manufacturer or supplier, no name and postcode of the supplying outlet?Government numberplate document said:
... each number plate must be permanently and legibly marked with the:
- British Standard number (currently BS AU 145d) from 1 September 2021 a new standard will become mandatory for all new number plates fitted from that date (BS AU 145e) but can be used from 1 January 2021
- name, trademark or other way of identifying the manufacturer or supplier
- name and postcode of the supplying outlet
Blanchimont said:
jeremyc said:
bad company said:
I’m no expert but can’t see anything wrong there.
No BS number, no way of identifying the manufacturer or supplier, no name and postcode of the supplying outlet?Government numberplate document said:
... each number plate must be permanently and legibly marked with the:
- British Standard number (currently BS AU 145d) from 1 September 2021 a new standard will become mandatory for all new number plates fitted from that date (BS AU 145e) but can be used from 1 January 2021
- name, trademark or other way of identifying the manufacturer or supplier
- name and postcode of the supplying outlet
Does seem petty though.
I think you need to ask them for the image.
[ph tosser mode] Are you sure you didn't change your plates before you took the pic to post here but after your S172? [/ph tosser mode]
Edited by blueg33 on Thursday 10th February 10:02
With the image compression, I can't tell if it has the small print details on there or not. OP, can you confirm?
But it looks fine to me.
Frankly, even if is missing them, this seems like a waste of time. That's a perfectly legible plate.
Edit: OP has said the details are there, so my opinion is if the police have run out of things to do, I've got some actual crimes they can resolve for me.
But it looks fine to me.
Frankly, even if is missing them, this seems like a waste of time. That's a perfectly legible plate.
Edit: OP has said the details are there, so my opinion is if the police have run out of things to do, I've got some actual crimes they can resolve for me.
Edited by InitialDave on Thursday 10th February 10:01
jeremyc said:
OP, are you sure you weren't giving the officer other reasons to take special notice of your car?
Noise, speed, manner of driving perhaps?
Even if he was, if the plate is compliant he shouldn't have been nabbed for it.Noise, speed, manner of driving perhaps?
And if he was, nab him for what he's done, not some made up s
t.And if he hasn't done anything that an officer can prove is illegal, how about not hounding him on spurious grounds?
As regards the bs number etc I can't find anything in the links attached in the thread that set out size & placing requirements for those items, only that they are required.
Having done the blow-up I can't see them either!
According to the same link if the OP's plates were made & fitted before 1st Sept 2021 then the side & top & bottom margins are given as minimum & not a set size.
Having done the blow-up I can't see them either!
According to the same link if the OP's plates were made & fitted before 1st Sept 2021 then the side & top & bottom margins are given as minimum & not a set size.
paintman said:
As regards the bs number etc I can't find anything in the links attached in the thread that set out size & placing requirements for those items, only that they are required.
Having done the blow-up I can't see them either!
According the same link if the OP's plates were made & fitted before 1st Sept 2021 then the side & top & bottom margins are given as minimum & not a set size.
The legislation says that the BS number has to be legibleHaving done the blow-up I can't see them either!
According the same link if the OP's plates were made & fitted before 1st Sept 2021 then the side & top & bottom margins are given as minimum & not a set size.
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