80 in a 70 - Pointless question

[LotsOfLaughs]

richhead said:

Sorry but you are not coming across at all well there, you admit using 77 as your"limit" as thats where the problems start, if you are doing 70 then there will never be a problem, the limit is there for everyone, not just driving gods like you, we all know the limit, so stick to it, if you dont like it get it changed, i also think alot of limits are to low, but understsnd why, have you seen the drivers on the roads today?
And arguing about a badly printed form isnt going to work,
Its like saying i only robbed that guys house a little bit, so im ok right.
Laws are laws, break them and suffer
Dont like them then seek to change them.

Yeah, although I get what your saying, I think the idea that one individual can "get it changed" purely on the basis that I dont like it is purely ficticious.
Theres nothing I can do about the speed limit. The closest I can do is utilise the margins allowed, and keep my eyes peeled for pesky vans. Its worked for me for the last 3 years, and now its cost me £88. Ohh well.
But seriously, short of criminally damaging the cameras, how else do you think a "normal" person can make a difference? Writing an email to my MP?

Actually, an interesting point on criminal damage - the climate clowns got away with smashing some very expensive windowns, with a hammer, in broad daylight, despite it being filmed. I think the jury refused to prosecute (jury nullification?) But I may be wrong.
Anyway, criminal damage - its not criminal damage if the person doing the damaging thinks that the owner of the thing being damaged would agree with it, for example smashing a car window to get a dog or child out on a hot day, etc etc. (I may have worded that poorly)
So given that speed cameras belong to the government, and we live in a supposed democracy, if one were to smash a speed camera to bits, get caught, charged with criminal damage, and pled not guilty on the grounds that the public (who own the cameras) dont like the cameras and therefore would approve of having them smashed to bits?

[BertBert]

zarjaz1991 said:

Right to silence? Effectively abolished for these type of offences a long time ago.

Today the law amounts to:
“You must confess to this offence. If you do not do so, we will prosecute you for failing to confess”.

The ship on this sailed a long time ago but nobody should be under any illusions about the fact that the law was changed to make these convictions a near-automatic process.

That's not what the law says. The law says you have to say who was driving, not confess to the offence.

[Jinba Ittai]

That downhill stretch at Rhaullt hill has been an accident black spot for years. The straw that broke the camels back was the VW Camper that lost control and slewed off, through the barrier, which entered the cab slicing the passenger in half, continued over the edge and ended up upside down half in a tree on the road below with the driver trapped next to what was left of his passenger.

I could sympathise if the OP just hadn’t noticed the Average speed camera signs before the hill, we’ve all done that at some point; but to knowingly make a decision to press on at ‘77 plus a bit’ on a stretch that takes five mins tops to get through at the correct speed is laughable.

[Sheepshanks]

LotsOfLaughs said:

This is exactly why I was caught. I was trying to be a bit of a smartarse and do 77 because "10%+2" is when the fines start. Combine that with a tad of speedo inaccuracy that I was also trying to be clever about, and then its easy to get bitten.
Frankly it’s borderline a national disgrace. "Welcome to Wales - Croeso I Gymru" above the road when you come into Wales, and whats the next thing you see? 50mph signs and average speed cameras. Then it opens up to 70, with more cameras, then it drops back down to 50 near Llandudno….

I got my first speeding ticket there many years ago - most traffic just carried on at 70. Got caught by unmarked car who picked me out. Vowed I’d never set foot in Wales again!

[Sheepshanks]

LotsOfLaughs said:

So given that speed cameras belong to the government, and we live in a supposed democracy, if one were to smash a speed camera to bits, get caught, charged with criminal damage, and pled not guilty on the grounds that the public (who own the cameras) dont like the cameras and therefore would approve of having them smashed to bits?

Slight problem you’ve got there is the majority of the public do support speed cameras.

[Steve H]

LotsOfLaughs said:

Yeah, although I get what your saying, I think the idea that one individual can "get it changed" purely on the basis that I dont like it is purely ficticious.
Theres nothing I can do about the speed limit. The closest I can do is utilise the margins allowed, and keep my eyes peeled for pesky vans. Its worked for me for the last 3 years, and now its cost me £88. Ohh well.
But seriously, short of criminally damaging the cameras, how else do you think a "normal" person can make a difference? Writing an email to my MP?

You can’t.

The momentum of the "speed kills" message isn’t about to get overturned and as automated monitoring gets more widespread, less and less discretion will be applied.

The best thing you can do is stick to the limit or make a better job of breaking it .


I know someone that was pulled for speeding on that section (pre the average speed cameras) and was let off with a warning because they were driving well and not a danger in any way (also passed the attitude test I suspect) but those days are largely gone now and it’s all dumbed down to a number and enforced by a computer.

[Sheepshanks]

Steve H said:

I know someone that was pulled for speeding on that section (pre the average speed cameras) and was let off with a warning because they were driving well and not a danger in any way (also passed the attitude test I suspect) but those days are largely gone now and it’s all dumbed down to a number and enforced by a computer.

I tried that - light traffic, clean licence etc etc. Didn’t work for me.

I slowed down more permanently after the second time I got done, that time in Cheshire by a cop hiding with a speed gun. I realised it was hopeless - the only way of avoiding that would have been not to speed.

My wife just got done for 35 by a red light camera as she was anxious not to run a red light!

[Steve H]

Sheepshanks said:

Steve H said:

I know someone that was pulled for speeding on that section (pre the average speed cameras) and was let off with a warning because they were driving well and not a danger in any way (also passed the attitude test I suspect) but those days are largely gone now and it’s all dumbed down to a number and enforced by a computer.

I tried that - light traffic, clean licence etc etc. Didn’t work for me.

I slowed down more permanently after the second time I got done, that time in Cheshire by a cop hiding with a speed gun. I realised it was hopeless - the only way of avoiding that would have been not to speed.

My wife just got done for 35 by a red light camera as she was anxious not to run a red light!

Yea, it was a luck of the draw thing for sure.

You can’t count on discretion going your way if you get pulled but there’s a better chance than with an automated procedure like the camera vans and average speed monitoring zones.

[Pit Pony]

LotsOfLaughs said:

Just had an NIP for 80 in a 70 an a particularly sneaky bit of the A55, average speed camera zone.
Looks like the printer wasnt having the best day when printing my NIP, Im presuming not, but just in case, can this be grounds for ignoring the letter? Its still easilly legible but still certainly defective.

Also something that Im sure has been covered before - I noticed it says that you MUST tell them who was driving. Does this mean we dont have the right to remain silent?

Thanks

I bet you braked before each camera didn't you, not realising they were average speed cameras. They are signed. I know the section well. I drove that way to my parent on Ynys Mon yesterday. Just as you leave the M53, and go into Wales it's a 50 average speed check for about 3 miles, and then about 10 miles further on, it's a 70 mph average speed check for about 4 miles.
I've also seen plenty of scamera vans over the years
Just set the cruise control at the speed limit and relax. (Usually it's impossible to get to the speed limit for more than a few seconds due to traffic volume,but this time of year its great)

Mind you my 85 year old mother had to do the course after being done on that section about 6 months back. 79 mph IIRC

[richhead]

LotsOfLaughs said:

Yeah, although I get what your saying, I think the idea that one individual can "get it changed" purely on the basis that I dont like it is purely ficticious.
Theres nothing I can do about the speed limit. The closest I can do is utilise the margins allowed, and keep my eyes peeled for pesky vans. Its worked for me for the last 3 years, and now its cost me £88. Ohh well.
But seriously, short of criminally damaging the cameras, how else do you think a "normal" person can make a difference? Writing an email to my MP?

Or run for office, if you feel strongly about somethng then there is nothing to stop you.
And i do agree with alot of your points raised, would probably even vote for you, But would enough people?

[NFT]

richhead said:

LotsOfLaughs said:

Yeah, although I get what your saying, I think the idea that one individual can "get it changed" purely on the basis that I dont like it is purely ficticious.
Theres nothing I can do about the speed limit. The closest I can do is utilise the margins allowed, and keep my eyes peeled for pesky vans. Its worked for me for the last 3 years, and now its cost me £88. Ohh well.
But seriously, short of criminally damaging the cameras, how else do you think a "normal" person can make a difference? Writing an email to my MP?

Or run for office, if you feel strongly about somethng then there is nothing to stop you.
And i do agree with alot of your points raised, would probably even vote for you, But would enough people?

Not sure about how a normal person can, in rough estate near one of my friend work the lovely little roadmen have cut the poles down and taken them away, they turned up at the skate park (witnessed being used for stunts too) with cameras in bits nearby. God bless them little crims.

[LotsOfLaughs]

BertBert said:

That's not what the law says. The law says you have to say who was driving, not confess to the offence.

Okay, but saying that you were driving amounts to a confession, does it not?

[LotsOfLaughs]

Jinba Ittai said:

That downhill stretch at Rhaullt hill has been an accident black spot for years. The straw that broke the camels back was the VW Camper that lost control and slewed off, through the barrier, which entered the cab slicing the passenger in half, continued over the edge and ended up upside down half in a tree on the road below with the driver trapped next to what was left of his passenger.

I could sympathise if the OP just hadn’t noticed the Average speed camera signs before the hill, we’ve all done that at some point; but to knowingly make a decision to press on at ‘77 plus a bit’ on a stretch that takes five mins tops to get through at the correct speed is laughable.

I did miss a camera, because it was dark and theyre high up, above the beam of the headlight.
And yes, its sad that some people crash cars horrifically. Doesnt make the rest of us incompetant.

[vonhosen]

LotsOfLaughs said:

BertBert said:

That's not what the law says. The law says you have to say who was driving, not confess to the offence.

Okay, but saying that you were driving amounts to a confession, does it not?

No.

Whether you are driving & whether you are guilty are different considerations.
I've received NIPs as a driver, but not been guilty of the potential offence being investigated.

[LotsOfLaughs]

Sheepshanks said:

Slight problem you’ve got there is the majority of the public do support speed cameras.

Do they? Because they really shouldnt, if theyve been presented the facts...

[vonhosen]

LotsOfLaughs said:

Sheepshanks said:

Slight problem you’ve got there is the majority of the public do support speed cameras.

Do they? Because they really shouldnt, if theyve been presented the facts...

The majority of the public support the existence of speed limits.
Enforcement of them (by a variety of means) is a natural consequence of their existence.

[LotsOfLaughs]

Pit Pony said:

I bet you braked before each camera didn't you, not realising they were average speed cameras. They are signed. I know the section well. I drove that way to my parent on Ynys Mon yesterday. Just as you leave the M53, and go into Wales it's a 50 average speed check for about 3 miles, and then about 10 miles further on, it's a 70 mph average speed check for about 4 miles.
I've also seen plenty of scamera vans over the years
Just set the cruise control at the speed limit and relax. (Usually it's impossible to get to the speed limit for more than a few seconds due to traffic volume,but this time of year its great)

Mind you my 85 year old mother had to do the course after being done on that section about 6 months back. 79 mph IIRC

No, I didnt brake for each camera. I had cruise set for the camera zone, iirc, but Im not sure. Its silly because the road going the other way is actually 3 lanes, and its one of the fastest sections of the A55 for that reason (when Im in the quick car at least)

[LotsOfLaughs]

richhead said:

Or run for office, if you feel strongly about somethng then there is nothing to stop you.
And i do agree with alot of your points raised, would probably even vote for you, But would enough people?

Hmm, maybe. Im a welsh speaker, and truly a bit if a welsh nationalist (but only because I think Id do a better job than westminster, or the current welsh labour government)
But the current MP for here is really very good, certainly as far as MPs go. Here, only 2 candidates stand a chance, the Labour candidate and the Plaid candidate. All the welsh nationalists vote Plaid, as well as everyone who doesnt want Labour to win. Everyone who wants Labour to win obviously votes Labour. Next time around, so few people will want the Tories in, theyll probably vote Labour. Labour might win this seat now because the Welsh nationalist vote is split now because of the YES CYMRU party.
So could I be an MP? Well other than tolerating all the other MPs, and going to London... maybe. But Id have to join Plaid Cymru, and then Id have to get them to put me as the candidate for here, which is unlikely, because the current guy is popular, and for good reason.

But even if I was an MP, what could I do?
Wales currently has a petition against the new 20mph speed limit. Its got over 450,000 signatures (maybe its even half a million by now)
That makes it the most signed petition (by percentage of population) in UK history. Yet Mark Drakeford has effectively told hundereds of thousands of people to get f_ck_d because hes not changing it.

[LotsOfLaughs]

NFT said:

Not sure about how a normal person can, in rough estate near one of my friend work the lovely little roadmen have cut the poles down and taken them away, they turned up at the skate park (witnessed being used for stunts too) with cameras in bits nearby. God bless them little crims.

Id like to send them some money

[LotsOfLaughs]

vonhosen said:

No.

Whether you are driving & whether you are guilty are different considerations.
I've received NIPs as a driver, but not been guilty of the potential offence being investigated.

Out of interest, how? Extenuating circumstances? Malfunctioning equipment?
I noticed my ticket only had one time on it (otherwise Id have checked the shortest possible distance between the cameras on google maps, and calculated the exact speed)