Police to monitor every vehicle journey in UK
Discussion
timsta said:
Lol, just think if we all asked for our info under the data protection act.
"Hi, I would like records of all the data you hold on me over the past 2 years.
Many Thanks
Timsta"
Then just wait as they fell 300 trees to print it out for me. Then we all do it.
i'll bet they charge you to see your own info though!
There's a thread on this in General Gassing. Not sure what it's doing there though as it should be here.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=230495
FWIW, I think this must be the beginning of the road pricing camera network. By getting it funded by the fear of terrorism, the final cost of the road pricing infrastructure will appear lower and therefore more palatable to the masses.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=230495
FWIW, I think this must be the beginning of the road pricing camera network. By getting it funded by the fear of terrorism, the final cost of the road pricing infrastructure will appear lower and therefore more palatable to the masses.
TonyRec said:
No it didnt but at least it led to detection.
You would be surprised if you knew how many cameras were around the strategic network that you dont see.
At least on this occasion all the pieces seem to have fallen into place, apart from the yellow bellied slag still on the run............................
Tony, We were shown CCTV pictures on the TV which showed the suspect vehicle being traced as it drove out of Nottingham. We were led to believe this was happening live. If that was the case why wasn't the vehicle intercepted on its return to London, surely every Traffic Policeman would have been informed and thyey must have already known it had been hired in London. This isn't meant to be a trick question , I'm just interested an I'm sure it will all become clear in due course
rayats said:
No it didnt but at least it led to detection.
You would be surprised if you knew how many cameras were around the strategic network that you dont see.
At least on this occasion all the pieces seem to have fallen into place, apart from the yellow bellied slag still on the run............................
Tony, We were shown CCTV pictures on the TV which showed the suspect vehicle being traced as it drove out of Nottingham. We were led to believe this was happening live. If that was the case why wasn't the vehicle intercepted on its return to London, surely every Traffic Policeman would have been informed and thyey must have already known it had been hired in London. This isn't meant to be a trick question , I'm just interested an I'm sure it will all become clear in due course
I dont know the full ins and outs of the case but it wouldnt have been shown live. If it had, the vehicle wouldnt have got more than 2 miles down the M1 without being stopped by a dozen gunships.
You are right about one thing though, it will all become clear in the coming months.
The system already exists & has been in place for a few years just needs the software updating thats all. The blue cameras already record such data, but they are privately owned. The green ones are government owned & I assume these are the one's they'll use.
Police state here we come
Police state here we come
Hughesie II said:
Pete,
Some cameras certainly have a place in society but there are also some which belong in the bin.
true, everything in moderation as they sayto both comments.
I hate speed cameras because they attempt to tackle an issue that is not black or white (and give ammunition to the speed kills wankers
inappropriate speed kills!) but I actually quite like the ANPR vehicles as they do combat a black or white issue - you're either insured or not, MOT'd or not etc.. 
timsta said:
Lol, just think if we all asked for our info under the data protection act.
"Hi, I would like records of all the data you hold on me over the past 2 years.
Many Thanks
Timsta"
Then just wait as they fell 300 trees to print it out for me. Then we all do it.
has any of the 'green' groups thought about the huge environmental cost of making all the paper required to cope with all the new requests for information?
could be a useful lobby against the new laws...
another forum said:
> > > 2) Database capabale of 35m reads per day. By March Dunt really
> > > seem likely.
> >
> > I'm sure something could be knocked up using Access and IIS by then.
>
> Please god let it use Access.
>
My first thought was "how big is that Database gonna be", but having
worked it out it's less that I originally thought it would be.
8 bytes for the licence (assumes no change to the licence plate format)
2 Bytes for the location (Assumes no more that 65k cameras)
4 bytes for the time (Time in seconds from epoch seems sensible)
1 byte checksum (dunno much about these, but seemed like a good idea to
validate data)
gives 15 bytes per record.
35M reads a day held for 2 years gives a little under 26 Billion reads
to be stored.
Assuming no slack space on disk, that would equate to a bit over 400Gb
not huge by todays standards. But you would have to have indexing
which would have overheads in the 20% region, so a half terrabyte to be
safe.
However, most modern O/S of any note (Unix) organise disks in 512 byte
blocks, so each record would occupy a block on its own. This increases
the projected size to
a little over 13 Terrabytes. Now that IS big. add in the indexing and
you don't get a lot of change from 15 Terrabytes.
Would you like mirroring with that sir?
Which would leave 497 bytes for extra info like number of points on license of regitered keeper, criminal convictions, known associates, colour of underpants, date of last shag, etc etc etc etc.
tallbloke said:
> > > 2) Database capabale of 35m reads per day. By March Dunt really
> > > seem likely.
> >
> > I'm sure something could be knocked up using Access and IIS by then.
>
> Please god let it use Access.
>
My first thought was "how big is that Database gonna be", but having
worked it out it's less that I originally thought it would be.
8 bytes for the licence (assumes no change to the licence plate format)
2 Bytes for the location (Assumes no more that 65k cameras)
4 bytes for the time (Time in seconds from epoch seems sensible)
1 byte checksum (dunno much about these, but seemed like a good idea to
validate data)
gives 15 bytes per record.
35M reads a day held for 2 years gives a little under 26 Billion reads
to be stored.
Assuming no slack space on disk, that would equate to a bit over 400Gb
not huge by todays standards. But you would have to have indexing
which would have overheads in the 20% region, so a half terrabyte to be
safe.
However, most modern O/S of any note (Unix) organise disks in 512 byte
blocks, so each record would occupy a block on its own. This increases
the projected size to
a little over 13 Terrabytes. Now that IS big. add in the indexing and
you don't get a lot of change from 15 Terrabytes.
Would you like mirroring with that sir?
Which would leave 497 bytes for extra info like number of points on license of regitered keeper, criminal convictions, known associates, colour of underpants, date of last shag, etc etc etc etc.
These figures miss out one vital piece of information. What about storage of the photographic evidence?
When used for ANPR, the burdon of proof is low as criminal pocedings are unlikely and only a simple fine is issued. Surely, If there is no photo graphic evidence then the system can not be used as proof of anything serious. I would assume that any photo of good enough quality to be relied upon as evidence in a serious criminal case would need to be about 500Kb. Thats one hell of a lot of storage. Around 15,000 terabytes.
>> Edited by Munta on Thursday 22 December 14:56
minimax said:
Pete,
Some cameras certainly have a place in society but there are also some which belong in the bin.
true, everything in moderation as they say
I hate speed cameras because they attempt to tackle an issue that is not black or white (and give ammunition to the speed kills wankers
How does it show whether I'm insured to drive the vehicle in question? It may show the vehicle is insured but not the person driving it.
>> Edited by esselte on Thursday 22 December 14:44
esselte said:
Pete,
Some cameras certainly have a place in society but there are also some which belong in the bin.
true, everything in moderation as they say
I hate speed cameras because they attempt to tackle an issue that is not black or white (and give ammunition to the speed kills wankers
How does it show whether I'm insured to drive the vehicle in question? It may show the vehicle is insured but not the person driving it.
>> Edited by esselte on Thursday 22 December 14:44
ah, that's where the propesed facial recognition software comes in...according to the independent sitting on my desk
minimax said:
Pete,
Some cameras certainly have a place in society but there are also some which belong in the bin.
true, everything in moderation as they say
I hate speed cameras because they attempt to tackle an issue that is not black or white (and give ammunition to the speed kills wankers
How does it show whether I'm insured to drive the vehicle in question? It may show the vehicle is insured but not the person driving it.
>> Edited by esselte on Thursday 22 December 14:44
ah, that's where the propesed facial recognition software comes in...according to the independent sitting on my desk
and that'll be where my tony blair mask will come in too
Munta said:
These figures miss out one vital piece of information. What about storage of the photographic evidence?
When used for ANPR, the burdon of proof is low as criminal pocedings are unlikely and only a simple fine is issued. Surely, If there is no photo graphic evidence then the system can not be used as proof of anything serious. I would assume that any photo of good enough quality to be relied upon as evidence in a serious criminal case would need to be about 500Kb. Thats one hell of a lot of storage. Around 15,000 terabytes.
While that seems like a lot, SATA disks today cost less than £500 per terabyte at retail prices - with the cost falling all the time. Assuming that this is the upper limit of the amount of storage required, at today's costs that would be £7,500,000. Since storage can be added as required, the initial cost could be far less.
My PC here has 1.5 terabytes of storage; raise that by a factor of 10,000 for the requirements of a nationwide surveillance system & it doesn't seem such a lot really. Calculating the cost for fast SCSI disks, the cost would be three times the above.
In short, I don't believe that the cost of storage would be any deterrant, whatever else may stand in the way of the system going in place.
>> Edited by griffless on Thursday 22 December 15:42
apache said:
Pete,
Some cameras certainly have a place in society but there are also some which belong in the bin.
true, everything in moderation as they say
I hate speed cameras because they attempt to tackle an issue that is not black or white (and give ammunition to the speed kills wankers
How does it show whether I'm insured to drive the vehicle in question? It may show the vehicle is insured but not the person driving it.
>> Edited by esselte on Thursday 22 December 14:44
ah, that's where the propesed facial recognition software comes in...according to the independent sitting on my desk
and that'll be where my tony blair mask will come in too
mine as well
Whilst I'm not overly concerned by this - it has been in place for quite a while and it amounts to not much more than reinforcing what is in place and having much greater co-ordination on a national basis. I believe it will be a huge problem to get in place. I have some experience of public sector IT projects. The key to any database is the quality of the data held in it. Given the poor data quality in the DVLA website, PNC and Police Intelligence systems generally, I can see this becoming a snowballing nightmare to try and make effective.
griffless said:
[quote=Munta]
In short, I don't believe that the cost of storage would be any deterrant, whatever else may stand in the way of the system going in place.
Indeed I doubt the cost is prohibitive in any way - it's not their money is it? they only need to up the Scamming to raise the funds and surely this system should pay for itself fairly quickly.
But it is wrong and on a personal level I will oppose it in anyway I can, how about we all remove our number plates? trouble is the majority will just accept it.
How do I join MAD?
xxplod said:
Given the poor data quality in the DVLA website, PNC and Police Intelligence systems generally, I can see this becoming a snowballing nightmare to try and make effective.
I certainly hope so and that this and the problems, cost and bad publicity it generates is sufficient to rid us of this control-freak Scum, but I'm not holding my breath
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