G20 Ian Tomlinson conclusion

[carinaman]

Given the core business of the police and the CPS is it expecting a bit much to think that they'd have known about this 6 months limit?

[carinaman]

Thank you CharlieTwo for your response.

The explanation was a lot clear than some of the legislation I've tried to read. Thank you.

[CharlieTwo]

carinaman said:

Given the core business of the police and the CPS is it expecting a bit much to think that they'd have known about this 6 months limit?

They did. It appears they expected a resolution to the conflict of expert evidence from the pathologists and thus to proceed on the significantly more serious charge of Manslaughter. I interpret the CPS' actions as them wanting the more serious charge and not 'settling' for the lesser one.

As it turned out, that didn't happen and the Battery had passed the time limit. The alternative would be lay the information on the Battery within time but almost certainly lose any possibility of pursuing Manslaughter. They would then have been criticised for that. Damned either way.

carinaman said:

Thank you CharlieTwo for your response.

The explanation was a lot clear than some of the legislation I've tried to read. Thank you.

No problem. English law can be difficult because so much has emerged or morphed from Common Law and Case Law. The Statutory stuff is also not written to be easy to read which never helps.

[Lakeland9]

I see that the heavy- handed PC is now facing a disciplinary. What odds he resigns before it comes up??

Presumably, the inquest will come next. Stand by for the unlawful killing verdict- not that it'll make any difference now.

[carinaman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00tdr1v

'The case was lost in the first 48 hours.'

[Kindersley]

Lakeland9 said:

I see that the heavy- handed PC is now facing a disciplinary. What odds he resigns before it comes up??

Presumably, the inquest will come next. Stand by for the unlawful killing verdict- not that it'll make any difference now.

Good.. And i hope karma comes and pays him a nice little visit one dark night

[carinaman]

The BBC programme said that Coroners are a law unto themselves and that the cuts mean they're unlikely to be bought to heel and forced to improve themselves and their methods.

Edited by carinaman on Thursday 19th August 22:05

[streaky]

It now appears that Dr Patel - who conducted the first PM - revised a key element of his findings a year later.

He originally stated that Thomlinson had "three litres of fluid blood" in his stomach. He subsequently altered this to "three litres of fluid and blood" ... i.e. unspecified fluid stained with blood.

He didn't preserve a sample of the fluid.

Following previous concerns, Dr Patel is currently subject to an imterim order from the GMC banning him from conducting HO and police autopsies.

Streaky

[ExChrispy Porker]

streaky said:

It now appears that Dr Patel - who conducted the first PM - revised a key element of his findings a year later.

He originally stated that Thomlinson had "three litres of fluid blood" in his stomach. He subsequently altered this to "three litres of fluid and blood" ... i.e. unspecified fluid stained with blood.

He didn't preserve a sample of the fluid.

Following previous concerns, Dr Patel is currently subject to an imterim order from the GMC banning him from conducting HO and police autopsies.

Streaky

His original note doesn't make sense. Isn't all blood 'fluid'?

[carinaman]

I've never watched CSI, but the breast implants was interesting.

[CharlieTwo]

streaky said:

It now appears that Dr Patel - who conducted the first PM - revised a key element of his findings a year later.

He originally stated that Thomlinson had "three litres of fluid blood" in his stomach. He subsequently altered this to "three litres of fluid and blood" ... i.e. unspecified fluid stained with blood.

He didn't preserve a sample of the fluid.

Keep up at the back. I think I said that back on 24th July.

ExChrispy Porker said:

His original note doesn't make sense. Isn't all blood 'fluid'?

Except for the congealed/clotted stuff. The point is that not all fluid from the body is blood. Three litres of blood would be very worrying given how much is in the body; three litres of another fluid stained red with a bit of blood in it or with a bit of blood suspended in it is far less worrying.

[carinaman]

So the BBC pgoramme link above says he was already under review when he did this post mortem and was taken off the list of doctors used by the Met, but was still on the approved list of the City of London Police, and the coroner gave Freddie Patel the Tomlinson post mortem.

The programme also has a bereaved mother who says that if Freddie Patel had done a proper post mortem on the previous victim of the chap that killed her daughter her daughter may still be alive today.

[stitched]

The question I suppose is who believes this officer was guilty of assault, with the botched PM we'll never really know whether Mr Tomlinson died as a result but to me the officers actions were utterly unacceptable.
Me, I'd like him out of the force asap.

[carinaman]

Patel shouldn't have been on the list of people doing post mortems and the Coroners office shouldn't have given him Tomlinson's body.

It's an utter disgrace. His family haven't had justice.

Edited by carinaman on Sunday 22 August 20:41

[streaky]

CharlieTwo said:

streaky said:

It now appears that Dr Patel - who conducted the first PM - revised a key element of his findings a year later.

He originally stated that Thomlinson had "three litres of fluid blood" in his stomach. He subsequently altered this to "three litres of fluid and blood" ... i.e. unspecified fluid stained with blood.

He didn't preserve a sample of the fluid.

Keep up at the back. I think I said that back on 24th July.

Indeed you did, but you didn't mention the part that I underscored - Streaky

[havoc]

stitched said:

The question I suppose is who believes this officer was guilty of assault, with the botched PM we'll never really know whether Mr Tomlinson died as a result but to me the officers actions were utterly unacceptable.
Me, I'd like him out of the force asap.

Can someone say that there is anything other than a VERY REMOTE chance* that being struck by a baton and knocked to the ground and then dying very soon afterwards are not linked?

If the chap DID suffer a heart-attack, it was quite likely precipitated by the sudden (unexpected) assault causing a rush of adrenalin into his system, if not by a blood clot itself. A direct causal link from the attack. Speculation, of course...but as per the question above - is there any reasonable prospect that assault and death are completely unrelated?!?

There are two other factors:-
- eggshell-skull syndrome (sorry, forgotten the legal term - but "take your victim as you find him");
- if the victim knew he had a condition (don't know - did he?), then putting himself in a high-stress situation like a protest is clearly contributory on his part.



* i.e. there is no 'reasonable doubt'!

[Seight_Returns]

havoc said:

- if the victim knew he had a condition (don't know - did he?), then putting himself in a high-stress situation like a protest is clearly contributory on his part.

If he'd been at that place and time with the intention of involving himself in the protest then fair enough - but if all he did was go to his place of work to sell newspapers like he did every day, as we beleive to be the case - then I'd question whether this is a contributory factor on his part.

Edited by Seight_Returns on Monday 23 August 16:42

[grumbledoak]

Seight_Returns said:

If he'd been at that place and time with the intention of involving himself in the protest then fair enough - but if all he did was go to his place of work to sell newspapers like he did every day, as we beleive to be the case

Guess again. His route through London that day was plotted as part of the original reporting. He quite clearly wasn't just going home...

[Kindersley]

keep it simple and real..

The PIG felt like been a big bully rather than been a professional Police officer and remembering he serves the queen and the law.

This bd just wanted to be the "big One"

I hope to god he gets a dose of karma later in life. He should be sacked from the police.

[carinaman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11081539