What road traffic law would you introduce?

[Frank7]

aka_kerrly said:

mko9 said:

You are going half a mile per hour faster than the lorry in front of you. In 12 hours, you will have made 5 minutes by executing that 10 minute/10 mile long pass. Assuming there was no other traffic, fuel stops, bathroom breaks, etc, etc. The flip side is the lorry getting passed could give a lift for about 5 seconds and save us all the misery.

You really are blowing this out of all proportion. There are not regular instances of two HGVs taking 10 miles to pass each other, certainly not on the M4/M5/M6/that I am mostly using.

The difference in speed is quite often more than 1-2mph and quite often if one HGV is overtaking another on a 3 lane motorway section you can blame the majority of car drivers who will drive to within 1/2 a car length of the lorry in the middle lane (slowing to sub 60mph in the process) then decide they need to move into the outer lane which is full of cars approaching at 70+mph.

If everyone on the road just took a bit more time to read ahead and anticipate developing situations then it wouldn't be half as bad on the roads!!

You won’t win any friends by being sensible, understanding the situation, and
posting the truth aka kerrly, the slavering cognoscenti doesn’t like that!
Thanks for seeing it like it is though.

[markjmd]

Frank7 said:

aka_kerrly said:

mko9 said:

You are going half a mile per hour faster than the lorry in front of you. In 12 hours, you will have made 5 minutes by executing that 10 minute/10 mile long pass. Assuming there was no other traffic, fuel stops, bathroom breaks, etc, etc. The flip side is the lorry getting passed could give a lift for about 5 seconds and save us all the misery.

You really are blowing this out of all proportion. There are not regular instances of two HGVs taking 10 miles to pass each other, certainly not on the M4/M5/M6/that I am mostly using.

The difference in speed is quite often more than 1-2mph and quite often if one HGV is overtaking another on a 3 lane motorway section you can blame the majority of car drivers who will drive to within 1/2 a car length of the lorry in the middle lane (slowing to sub 60mph in the process) then decide they need to move into the outer lane which is full of cars approaching at 70+mph.

If everyone on the road just took a bit more time to read ahead and anticipate developing situations then it wouldn't be half as bad on the roads!!

You won’t win any friends by being sensible, understanding the situation, and
posting the truth aka kerrly, the slavering cognoscenti doesn’t like that!
Thanks for seeing it like it is though.

Sorry, but you still haven't adequately explained why you need to do these overtakes at all in the first place. So what if your truck can go a whole 3 to 4 miles faster than some other truck in front you? You're all supposed to be on limiters anyway, so I'm not convinced there's even that much of a difference.

[heebeegeetee]

markjmd said:

Sorry, but you still haven't adequately explained why you need to do these overtakes at all in the first place. So what if your truck can go a whole 3 to 4 miles faster than some other truck in front you? You're all supposed to be on limiters anyway, so I'm not convinced there's even that much of a difference.

If the trucks didn't overtake we'd end up with long queues of hgvs, making it difficult join and leave m'ways. By overtaking the drivers have a better view of the road ahead and we have the gaps between vehicles that we need. The drivers are also limited for time, and can be on tight deadlines. They're also tracked, so if a driver takes longer to do a journey (because he's putting the wants and needs of joe public before his employer, mortgage and family etc) it'll be soon picked up.

The movement of our food and goods isn't what causes delays out there, nor is it cyclists nor anyone else. There's only one vehicle out there crushing the roads to a grinding halt, only one vehicle causing massive, massive problems, and that's the car. Driven by us.

I do think a great many car drivers develop a kind of blindness, when they believe that the problems are caused by somebody else.

[TooMany2cvs]

markjmd said:

Sorry, but you still haven't adequately explained why you need to do these overtakes at all in the first place.

Why do YOU need to?

[Graveworm]

heebeegeetee said:

If the trucks didn't overtake we'd end up with long queues of hgvs, making it difficult join and leave m'ways. By overtaking the drivers have a better view of the road ahead and we have the gaps between vehicles that we need. The drivers are also limited for time, and can be on tight deadlines. They're also tracked, so if a driver takes longer to do a journey (because he's putting the wants and needs of joe public before his employer, mortgage and family etc) it'll be soon picked up.

The movement of our food and goods isn't what causes delays out there, nor is it cyclists nor anyone else. There's only one vehicle out there crushing the roads to a grinding halt, only one vehicle causing massive, massive problems, and that's the car. Driven by us.

I do think a great many car drivers develop a kind of blindness, when they believe that the problems are caused by somebody else.

I think that a lorry journey is probably objectively more important than a car journey or 2 so the inconvenience caused would be proportionate. All road users are required to be considerate, so they are supposed to put the needs of Joe public, at least on a par with employers and mortgages. 99 percent of the time the inconvenience caused is not as great as is perceived but if it were disproportionately inconsiderate then it could be illegal.

[Mr2Mike]

TooMany2cvs said:

Why do YOU need to?

Because cars are legally permitted to travel significantly faster than HGVs on a motorway/DCW. Overtaking HGVs is necessary to maximise traffic speed and therefore road capacity on DCWs and motorways.

My beef is not with HGVs overtaking in general, but HGV drivers starting overtakes they have no possibility of completing within a reasonable distance. If an HGV driver has to rely on other HGVs slowing down to complete an overtake then their speed differential is so miniscule they shouldn't have started it.

[heebeegeetee]

Mr2Mike said:

My beef is not with HGVs overtaking in general, but HGV drivers starting overtakes they have no possibility of completing within a reasonable distance. If an HGV driver has to rely on other HGVs slowing down to complete an overtake then their speed differential is so miniscule they shouldn't have started it.

HC advice: 168. Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass.

If there are vehicles behind the hgv being overtaken though, there's no point in it slowing down as it would encourage the vehicles behind to overtake.

[heebeegeetee]

Graveworm said:

I think that a lorry journey is probably objectively more important than a car journey or 2 so the inconvenience caused would be proportionate. All road users are required to be considerate, so they are supposed to put the needs of Joe public, at least on a par with employers and mortgages.

Best of luck to you if that's your expectation. That's dreamworld territory imo, it'll never happen and I certainly wouldn't expect it.

[Graveworm]

heebeegeetee said:

Best of luck to you if that's your expectation. That's dreamworld territory imo, it'll never happen and I certainly wouldn't expect it.

It's not what I expect it's what the law requires.

[heebeegeetee]

Graveworm said:

It's not what I expect it's what the law requires.

Best of luck if you think the law will intervene then. I wouldn't expect such a thing, no more than I'd expect the law to interfere with children riding bicycles on footpaths.

[Graveworm]

heebeegeetee said:

Best of luck if you think the law will intervene then. I wouldn't expect such a thing, no more than I'd expect the law to interfere with children riding bicycles on footpaths.

It can and has intervened in the former, I hope it doesn't in the latter.

[chunder27]

Motorway training, to try and improve lane usage. It seems get worse and worse.

[TooMany2cvs]

Mr2Mike said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Why do YOU need to?

Because cars are legally permitted to travel significantly faster than HGVs on a motorway/DCW. Overtaking HGVs is necessary to maximise traffic speed and therefore road capacity on DCWs and motorways.

Which is all very lovely, but both the HGVs are within the speed limit (60mph, remember), too. So the one overtaking is doing exactly the same as you think you're somehow more entitled to do.

[nonsequitur]

NikBartlett said:

Mandatory drug testing for any driver tugged

A bit harsh! Anyone having a tug whilst driving should be charged with not being in control of a vehicle.

[AstonZagato]

TooMany2cvs said:

Mr2Mike said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Why do YOU need to?

Because cars are legally permitted to travel significantly faster than HGVs on a motorway/DCW. Overtaking HGVs is necessary to maximise traffic speed and therefore road capacity on DCWs and motorways.

Which is all very lovely, but both the HGVs are within the speed limit (60mph, remember), too. So the one overtaking is doing exactly the same as you think you're somehow more entitled to do.

But the lorries are not being considerate to other road users.

[Frank7]

markjmd said:

Sorry, but you still haven't adequately explained why you need to do these overtakes at all in the first place. So what if your truck can go a whole 3 to 4 miles faster than some other truck in front you? You're all supposed to be on limiters anyway, so I'm not convinced there's even that much of a difference.

I still haven’t ADEQUATELY explained? ADEQUATELY?, please take this in the sardonic way that it's intended mark.
Who the fu*k are you, to demand any explanation from me, never mind one that you decide is adequate?
I’ve tried very patiently to explain to you, very politely, why it can sometimes happen that an HGV can hold you up for a while, and certainly not deliberately, while overtaking another HGV.
I’ve also apologised for the times that it may have been me, dragging 44 tons ahead of you.
Other posters, apparently car drivers, have chipped in to express some understanding of what I’ve tried to say, and have pointed out that it is not as bad as you seem to think it is, agreeing that yes, IT IS an irritation, but it’s only for a couple of minutes, not for 10 miles or more.
Do me a favour, go howl at the moon, this is getting tiresome.
I’m pretty good at ignoring small minded pygmies, but you’re pushing the envelope a tad.

[heebeegeetee]

AstonZagato said:

But the lorries are not being considerate to other road users.

Given the problems we cause by using our cars in working hours, particularly at peak times, how considerate are we, to anybody, to the environment, and so on?

[heebeegeetee]

Graveworm said:

It can and has intervened in the former, I hope it doesn't in the latter.

I imagine it's intervened so little with the former that anything that has been done is irrelevant. In real terms I don't think the law is interested at all, and I doubt anyone could recall or post links to anything other than highly exceptional events.

Have you any examples?

[mko9]

aka_kerrly said:

mko9 said:

You are going half a mile per hour faster than the lorry in front of you. In 12 hours, you will have made 5 minutes by executing that 10 minute/10 mile long pass. Assuming there was no other traffic, fuel stops, bathroom breaks, etc, etc. The flip side is the lorry getting passed could give a lift for about 5 seconds and save us all the misery.

You really are blowing this out of all proportion. There are not regular instances of two HGVs taking 10 miles to pass each other, certainly not on the M4/M5/M6/that I am mostly using.

The difference in speed is quite often more than 1-2mph and quite often if one HGV is overtaking another on a 3 lane motorway section you can blame the majority of car drivers who will drive to within 1/2 a car length of the lorry in the middle lane (slowing to sub 60mph in the process) then decide they need to move into the outer lane which is full of cars approaching at 70+mph.

If everyone on the road just took a bit more time to read ahead and anticipate developing situations then it wouldn't be half as bad on the roads!!

I have many times followed one lorry trying to pass another for a several miles on the A14 between Cambridge and Huntingdon. It is not a rarity.

[Mr Tidy]

Frank7 said:

I still haven’t ADEQUATELY explained? ADEQUATELY?, please take this in the sardonic way that it's intended mark.
Who the fu*k are you, to demand any explanation from me, never mind one that you decide is adequate?
I’ve tried very patiently to explain to you, very politely, why it can sometimes happen that an HGV can hold you up for a while, and certainly not deliberately, while overtaking another HGV.
I’ve also apologised for the times that it may have been me, dragging 44 tons ahead of you.
Other posters, apparently car drivers, have chipped in to express some understanding of what I’ve tried to say, and have pointed out that it is not as bad as you seem to think it is, agreeing that yes, IT IS an irritation, but it’s only for a couple of minutes, not for 10 miles or more.
Do me a favour, go howl at the moon, this is getting tiresome.
I’m pretty good at ignoring small minded pygmies, but you’re pushing the envelope a tad.

Sorry, but you are just a PITA.

You personally may only hold people up for a couple of minutes, but a minute or so up the road is another trucker F*cker holding everyone else up for a "couple of minutes", then just repeat, repeat, repeat, etc.

Say hello to the moon for me BTW!