B+E being scrapped?

Author
Discussion

Ganglandboss

8,324 posts

205 months

Friday 19th November 2021
quotequote all
David87 said:
Haven't been following this that closely, but to clarify my belief is correct: you can no longer take a B+E test (and have not been given it for 'free'), but you also cannot tow certain trailers without the B+E? What if you urgently need the ability to do so?
At present, somebody with a normal car licence that passed before 1997 can drive a 7,500 kg vehicle and a 750 kg trailer, or a car and trailer combination up to 8,250 kg.

If you passed after 1997, you can drive up to 3,500 kg plus a 750 kg trailer, or a vehicle and trailer combination of 3,500 kg.

The rule change planned would have allowed those who passed after 1997 to tow a 3,500 kg trailer with a vehicle up to 3,500 kg.

InitialDave

12,024 posts

121 months

Friday 19th November 2021
quotequote all
David87 said:
Haven't been following this that closely, but to clarify my belief is correct: you can no longer take a B+E test (and have not been given it for 'free'), but you also cannot tow certain trailers without the B+E? What if you urgently need the ability to do so?
Correct.

If you currently have a B licence, there is no way for you to get a B+E licence.

But the rules for what you are restricted to towing with a B licence are still in place.

You would have to move up to a larger class licence entirely, and get a +E for that.

skwdenyer

16,957 posts

242 months

Friday 19th November 2021
quotequote all
Ganglandboss said:
David87 said:
Haven't been following this that closely, but to clarify my belief is correct: you can no longer take a B+E test (and have not been given it for 'free'), but you also cannot tow certain trailers without the B+E? What if you urgently need the ability to do so?
At present, somebody with a normal car licence that passed before 1997 can drive a 7,500 kg vehicle and a 750 kg trailer, or a car and trailer combination up to 8,250 kg.

If you passed after 1997, you can drive up to 3,500 kg plus a 750 kg trailer, or a vehicle and trailer combination of 3,500 kg.

The rule change planned would have allowed those who passed after 1997 to tow a 3,500 kg trailer with a vehicle up to 3,500 kg.
So basically it would have allowed you drive a Defender + maximum permitted trailer. Like a lot of people probably do already. I can't see how this is controversial TBH.

InitialDave

12,024 posts

121 months

Friday 19th November 2021
quotequote all
skwdenyer said:
So basically it would have allowed you drive a Defender + maximum permitted trailer. Like a lot of people probably do already. I can't see how this is controversial TBH.
It really isn't.

drmike37

473 posts

58 months

Friday 19th November 2021
quotequote all
Oh FFS.

Ganglandboss

8,324 posts

205 months

Tuesday 23rd November 2021
quotequote all
Just had this by email, as I signed up to updates on towing.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/draft-legis...

www.gov.uk said:
A statutory instrument was laid on 16 September 2021 titled the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021 (the ‘No. 2 Regulations’) and was due to come into force on 15 November 2021. The substantive legislative changes proposed in the No. 2 Regulations would have removed the need for a person to pass the ‘B+E’ car and trailer test before they could pull a heavy trailer behind their car. This would have meant people with licences awarded after 1997 also no longer needed to pass a separate test to tow a heavy trailer.

This statutory instrument was not approved in time for the No. 2 Regulations to come into force on 15 November 2021. Since such affirmative statutory instruments cannot be amended once laid in draft, we have taken action to lay the regulations afresh as the draft Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2021 (the ‘No. 5 Regulations’).

To make rapid progress on this, we are seeking to make use of the urgency procedure under paragraph 14(6) of schedule 8 to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. I am of the opinion that, by reason of urgency, the requirements for this affirmative statutory instrument (by virtue of paragraph 13(1) of schedule 8 to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018) to be made after being published in draft for 28 days, together with a scrutiny statement, should not apply.

Forgoing the 28-day publication period will allow earlier laying of the No. 5 Regulations than would have otherwise been possible and strengthen the steps we have already taken to increase HGV testing capacity and ease supply chain issues as quickly as possible. Arrangements will be in place to ensure that the changes made by the No. 5 Regulations are operationally effective as soon as they come into force.

Published 23 November 2021

journeymanpro

766 posts

79 months

Tuesday 23rd November 2021
quotequote all
Ganglandboss said:
Just had this by email, as I signed up to updates on towing.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/draft-legis...

www.gov.uk said:
A statutory instrument was laid on 16 September 2021 titled the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021 (the ‘No. 2 Regulations’) and was due to come into force on 15 November 2021. The substantive legislative changes proposed in the No. 2 Regulations would have removed the need for a person to pass the ‘B+E’ car and trailer test before they could pull a heavy trailer behind their car. This would have meant people with licences awarded after 1997 also no longer needed to pass a separate test to tow a heavy trailer.

This statutory instrument was not approved in time for the No. 2 Regulations to come into force on 15 November 2021. Since such affirmative statutory instruments cannot be amended once laid in draft, we have taken action to lay the regulations afresh as the draft Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2021 (the ‘No. 5 Regulations’).

To make rapid progress on this, we are seeking to make use of the urgency procedure under paragraph 14(6) of schedule 8 to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. I am of the opinion that, by reason of urgency, the requirements for this affirmative statutory instrument (by virtue of paragraph 13(1) of schedule 8 to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018) to be made after being published in draft for 28 days, together with a scrutiny statement, should not apply.

Forgoing the 28-day publication period will allow earlier laying of the No. 5 Regulations than would have otherwise been possible and strengthen the steps we have already taken to increase HGV testing capacity and ease supply chain issues as quickly as possible. Arrangements will be in place to ensure that the changes made by the No. 5 Regulations are operationally effective as soon as they come into force.

Published 23 November 2021
what does that actually mean?

dhutch

14,416 posts

199 months

Tuesday 23rd November 2021
quotequote all
I think it means that having vetoed them, in order to get them signed off, they have to resubmit them as a draft. So they are doing that, and trying to go via a fast track route.

Summary; lord only knows

skwdenyer

16,957 posts

242 months

Tuesday 23rd November 2021
quotequote all
dhutch said:
I think it means that having vetoed them, in order to get them signed off, they have to resubmit them as a draft. So they are doing that, and trying to go via a fast track route.

Summary; lord only knows
This does a reasonable job of explaining it: https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2021-11-09/deb...

Tl;dr: they didn't get it together to pass it through the Commons in time, so it was pulled, and is being replaced by another one that takes advantage of a "fast track" provision in the exiting the EU legislation to allow it to be pushed through faster this time.

jamesssss

93 posts

46 months

Wednesday 15th December 2021
quotequote all
The SI was approved by the Commons yesterday and the Lords today. The next step is for the it to be "signed" by the minister, so we should see a new date published in the next couple of days.

https://commonsbusiness.parliament.uk/document/527...

https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2021-12-15/deb...

InitialDave

12,024 posts

121 months

Wednesday 15th December 2021
quotequote all
Well, it seems like they're getting there, anyway, even if they have taken their time.

Krikkit

26,689 posts

183 months

Wednesday 15th December 2021
quotequote all
Great news! I was worried this would never happen

jamesssss

93 posts

46 months

Thursday 16th December 2021
quotequote all
Looks like it changes from today! - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a...

My licence is not showing B+E online yet though...

Gtom

1,623 posts

134 months

Thursday 16th December 2021
quotequote all
I have just had the email through about this, I will renew my license now. If it’s on my card and they decide to do another u-turn at least I have got a bit of plastic with B+E on it.

lenard

19 posts

119 months

Thursday 16th December 2021
quotequote all
An additional legislative change from the 16th December 2021 also means that drivers with B (Car) entitlement will automatically have B+E (Car & Trailer) entitlement without the need to take a B+E test. This will allow you to tow a vehicle up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM).
BE entitlement informationPlease note that these changes will not be reflected on your current driving licence, or on any of our online services. There is no need to contact DVLA regarding this change, your photocard driving licence will be updated the next time you transact with DVLA.

jamesssss

93 posts

46 months

Thursday 16th December 2021
quotequote all
Presumably the easiest way is to pay the £20 and say you lost it?

InitialDave

12,024 posts

121 months

Thursday 16th December 2021
quotequote all
jamesssss said:
Presumably the easiest way is to pay the £20 and say you lost it?
Oh, I thought you sent it to the DVLA, and they lost it for free.

dhutch

14,416 posts

199 months

Thursday 16th December 2021
quotequote all
lenard said:
An additional legislative change from the 16th December 2021 also means that drivers with B (Car) entitlement will automatically have B+E (Car & Trailer) entitlement without the need to take a B+E test.
Nice!

dhutch

14,416 posts

199 months

Thursday 16th December 2021
quotequote all
Gtom said:
I have just had the email through about this, I will renew my license now. If it’s on my card and they decide to do another u-turn at least I have got a bit of plastic with B+E on it.
Can imagine a surge opting to do just that!

ESD1711

390 posts

53 months

Friday 17th December 2021
quotequote all
jamesssss said:
Presumably the easiest way is to pay the £20 and say you lost it?
The easiest way would be to do nothing at all.

Like they’ve said, entitlements will be added automatically.

Having a bit of plastic with BE on it wouldn’t matter if they did decide to do a U-Turn on this, which I severely doubt they could / would.

Everyone panicking trying to get an unnecessary replacement is just going to put an already strained DVLA under more pressure.