No Mask, No Entry, No Exceptions

[Graveworm]

Brave Fart said:

Graveworm said:

Even if that were the case - applying the precautionary principle would suggest otherwise.

The precautionary principle is not a sufficiently high bar for mask wearing legislation; I believe that if you're going to have legislation compelling people to wear masks you must be damned sure that there's a significant benefit to the wearing of them. To date, there's no credible evidence that there is - see discussion above.

You say that it isn't necessary for mask wearing to be mandatory, but your comments don't seem to bear that out.
So let me ask you a question: are you content for people who wish to wear a mask to do so, and for people who choose not to, to not wear one (i.e. the current UK situation)?

Putting your outlying opinion of what constitutes credible evidence aside -
What you propose is iterally the opposite of the precautionary, principle which has been around and relatively uncontentious for ages (At least the 70s)and should guide legislation. It is also a principle that would be compulsory, for the state, under the human rights act.

As it stands definitely I am content - of course employers and people responsible for premises have always been able to make such requirements as they see fit provided they don't unreasonably infringe on anyone with a protected characteristic

I will ask you to ignore your subjective unqualified views - Do you think it would be defensible for a government to ignore the evidence of every study and the current consensus of every national and international body on the efficacy of masks, to control an outbreak irrespective of what you, or they, personally think?

Baroness Hallet"s enquiry is up and running. I will happily bet you 5k to the charity of the winners choice that of all the shortcomings they identify, insufficient evidence that mask wearing is effective, won't be amongst them.

Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 16th November 23:06

[Missy Charm]

Graveworm said:

Putting your outlying opinion of what constitutes credible evidence aside -
What you propose is iterally the opposite of the precautionary, principle which has been around and relatively uncontentious for ages (At least the 70s)and should guide legislation. It is also a principle that would be compulsory, for the state, under the human rights act.

As it stands definitely I am content - of course employers and people responsible for premises have always been able to make such requirements as they see fit provided they don't unreasonably infringe on anyone with a protected characteristic

I will ask you to ignore your subjective unqualified views - Do you think it would be defensible for a government to ignore the evidence of every study and the current consensus of every national and international body on the efficacy of masks, to control an outbreak irrespective of what you, or they, personally think?

Baroness Hallet"s enquiry is up and running. I will happily bet you 5k to the charity of the winners choice that of all the shortcomings they identify, insufficient evidence that mask wearing is effective, won't be amongst them.

Edited by Graveworm on Wednesday 16th November 23:06

I wouldn't put five pence on Hallett's enquiry concluding that mask wearing is ineffective. The enquiry will conclude, in accordance with the official line, that masks were an effective control measure at the height of the pandemic, but have no place in the present situation of low cases and death rates. It is in nobody's interest for the enquiry to conclude anything else, not the policymakers', the scientists' or even the public's. Truth and objectivity may well be the casualties, but who cares about those concepts nowadays when all we value are easy answers and 'being kind'. Let Nigel and Brenda from up the road think they did some good by wearing a mask. It's not the law now, so who cares? It simply doesn't matter any more to the man on the Clapham omnibus; masks are presently as irrelevant as clapping for carers and last year's Christmas novelty song.

[bad company]

bad company said:

I don’t want to start another pro/anti mask debate, there’s been a few of those.

I’ve passed a few mainly smaller shops and cafes with signage saying you cannot enter without a mask, no exceptions. Does this contravene disability laws?

Nearly 18 months and almost 230 pages later this thread has definitely become another ‘pro/anti mask debate’, I’m amazed it’s still going.

Just saying.

[Griffith4ever]

I think our opinions on the matter are all just that - because people are NOT following any science that I'm aware of.

I've just poopped out to do some shopping errands and it is literally like someone has just rewound the clock, since last night!

Small local post office - all three staff behing their screen are in masks. I didn't notice for a second, until the chap pulled his back on after getting off the phone. I was like, "oh!, really?," and then started thinking, "perhaps one of them has it?". wtf? I've not see masked shop staff in a long while now.

This is after BBC news broadcast only yesterday that Covid numbers are falling. They also all had fabric masks on - you know - the ones that are not surgical ones - the ones that even our health bodies said make little to no difference to anyone. So you have to ask yourself, what the hell are they thinking?! If they are seriously concerned about catching something then they'd wear surgical masks wouldn't they?

Thinking this was isolated and a particular thing in their shop I thought not much more about it (other than I'll go somewhere else from now on)

I then popped over to Toolstation, bought my stuff, left, and as I did, a woman approached, masked up (same fabric "fashion" mask) and went in. 1st time I've seen that happen too for a long while.

I just can't come to any conclusion other than people are just thick. The mrs tells me the morning TV shows are starting to suggest wearing them again as a "why not?" kind of "logic".

This is also why I'm flying away for the winter this weekend, and not at Xmas like I normally do. After last year's winter "panic" we decided to get out a month earlier this year, and I'm starting to feel I made a good decision.

[Missy Charm]

Well it seems as if certain Americans have now started agitating for mask mandates to be enacted in response to RSV (whatever that is; the NHS seem to suggest that it's a cold, but colds aren't scary enough, presumably, so have to be renamed) and influenza (which we have been repeatedly told is not deterred by facemasks). Magic masks, everyone. Magic masks.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/holiday-trav...

[Unreal]

Whatever you do, don't go into a hospital at the moment - NHS or private. It's like stepping back in time. Hand sanitisers, requests to wear a mask or visor, covid consent forms, the works. Meanwhile you can tread dog st and God knows what else through the place or enjoy a fag whilst tied to your drip. Most of the staff remain overweight as well so I guess that risk factor has been discarded.

[James6112]

Unreal said:

Whatever you do, don't go into a hospital at the moment - NHS or private. It's like stepping back in time. Hand sanitisers, requests to wear a mask or visor, covid consent forms, the works. Meanwhile you can tread dog st and God knows what else through the place or enjoy a fag whilst tied to your drip. Most of the staff remain overweight as well so I guess that risk factor has been discarded.

Hospitals are full of sick / vulnerable people
Asking a visitor etc to wear a mask is an obvious thing to do. Covid could kill some poor buggers in there. If it reduced the chance by 1% it’s worth it.

The other comments are a bit silly, to somehow justify your distorted view.

[freedman]

Unreal said:

Whatever you do, don't go into a hospital at the moment - NHS or private. It's like stepping back in time. Hand sanitisers, requests to wear a mask or visor, covid consent forms, the works.

I'm sitting in the ED of a major London hospital at present, and none of those things are happening

[Unreal]

James6112 said:

Unreal said:

Whatever you do, don't go into a hospital at the moment - NHS or private. It's like stepping back in time. Hand sanitisers, requests to wear a mask or visor, covid consent forms, the works. Meanwhile you can tread dog st and God knows what else through the place or enjoy a fag whilst tied to your drip. Most of the staff remain overweight as well so I guess that risk factor has been discarded.

Hospitals are full of sick / vulnerable people
Asking a visitor etc to wear a mask is an obvious thing to do. Covid could kill some poor buggers in there. If it reduced the chance by 1% it’s worth it.

The other comments are a bit silly, to somehow justify your distorted view.

I've simply posted my recent experience. None of it is distorted and I don't need to justify any of it. I could have taken photos of the two hospitals and the staff and patients but that would have been wrong. You may choose to disbelieve me. I couldn't care less.

[Griffith4ever]

James6112 said:

Covid could kill some poor buggers in there. If it reduced the chance by 1% it’s worth it.

So could a cold, flu, diptheria, HIV, measles etc etc etc. Everyone should be stopped from going in at all, unless a patient.That would eliminate the risk of bringing in an infection by 100%.

See how your 1% is not really very sound logic.?

It's the same logic that says we should all go out in masks for ever more.

[Unreal]

freedman said:

Unreal said:

Whatever you do, don't go into a hospital at the moment - NHS or private. It's like stepping back in time. Hand sanitisers, requests to wear a mask or visor, covid consent forms, the works.

I'm sitting in the ED of a major London hospital at present, and none of those things are happening

Remarkable but we all have our own experiences. GWS.

[anonymous-user]

Unreal said:

freedman said:

Unreal said:

Whatever you do, don't go into a hospital at the moment - NHS or private. It's like stepping back in time. Hand sanitisers, requests to wear a mask or visor, covid consent forms, the works.

I'm sitting in the ED of a major London hospital at present, and none of those things are happening

Remarkable but we all have our own experiences. GWS.

Mine is the same as freedman - both NHS and private.

[Terminator X]

After all this time I'm amazed that people still not seeing COVID for what it was, bad for the really old and sick already people^. Mild like a cold for the vast majority or flu like for a small number. Hell even the govt eventually admitted that 1 in 3 people had COVID with not a single symptom.

^so get vacinated.

TX.

[HTP99]

Roman Rhodes said:

Unreal said:

freedman said:

Unreal said:

Whatever you do, don't go into a hospital at the moment - NHS or private. It's like stepping back in time. Hand sanitisers, requests to wear a mask or visor, covid consent forms, the works.

I'm sitting in the ED of a major London hospital at present, and none of those things are happening

Remarkable but we all have our own experiences. GWS.

Mine is the same as freedman - both NHS and private.

Just dropped my neighbour to A&E, upon entering there was a table with boxes of masks, neither of us took one, there were many patients with masks on, some without, most of the staff had them on however whilst we were there a receptionist was clearly getting agitated by hers and removed it, not once were we asked to put one on.

McColls a few days ago, I needed to drop a parcel off at the Royal Mail desk, plastic screens up, the one guy behind the counter had a mask on (generic fabric thing), he had a big bushy beard, with most of it protruding beyond his mask so even if his type of mask were effective, it wouldn't have been due to all the gaping areas caused by his beard.

[pavarotti1980]

Unreal said:

Remarkable but we all have our own experiences. GWS.

Likewise for me. No masks for ages unless working on critical care, or wards which have severely immunocompromised patients such as oncology, transplants etc

[Steve H]

Terminator X said:

After all this time I'm amazed that people still not seeing COVID for what it was, bad for the really old and sick already people^. Mild like a cold for the vast majority or flu like for a small number. Hell even the govt eventually admitted that 1 in 3 people had COVID with not a single symptom.

^so get vacinated.

TX.

Most people do see that. Once vaccinations were available and sufficiently distributed to reduce the risks adequately, restrictions were not necessary any more and that’s pretty much where we are now.

The one thing some people still manage to forget is that even if covid were no more harmful than flu (and at least in the early stages I think it’s fair to say it was overall significantly more harmful), it was vastly more transmissible. If the entire country became infected with flu tomorrow we would be facing a massive healthcare emergency and no lockdowns, masks and other restrictions for covid would have created exactly that effect during the first wave with a much higher death rate due to care being totally overwhelmed.

[ColdoRS]

They (still) walk among us.

[Draxindustries1]

Our doctors surgery doesn't require masks and hasnt for a long while.
The daft screens were removed immediately same for the pharmacy.
Our village shop never bothered trying to enforce masks either.
The whole thing was a farce..

[bad company]

Mrs BC and I are crossing the Atlantic on a cruise ship. There’s about 500 passengers and as many crew so around 1000 people onboard. There’s just one couple wearing masks and we haven’t heard of any Covid cases onboard.

Everything getting back to normal.

[survivalist]

Surprised about people’s comments on healthcare settings. Been to hospital a few times in the last couple of weeks and while there is more mask wearing than in everyday life, I’d say fewer than half were wearing them - staff and patients.