No Mask, No Entry, No Exceptions

[Steve Campbell]

I'm pro, but as per any scientist, I'm willing for the hypothesis that masks actually have zero value to be supported by peer reviewed good science rather than simply saying "it isn't 100%" or "Its not fully clear"....or even 'I just don't trust "them" ' (unless every govt in the world is somehow in one big conspiracy theory....but lets not go there !).

I'm not pro because there is a 100% clear and unambiguous data set that says if you wear a mask (alone) it will provide X protection. However, from all the literature I've read (from multiple scientific studies and govts...not just UK), the balance of evidence suggests it will make a difference as part of a combined set of strategies to minimize transmission / viral load transmission etc. It's not black and white and we are learning all the time....& as we learn, the advice is changing. Some call it flip flopping, I call it decision making based on the available scientific data at the time. Some societies (eg Japan) have felt for a long time that mask wearing when you personally have a cold or sniffle is a good societal thing to do. Just because it's different, is it wrong ?

On the original context, if a business / shop has a rule that says no mask, no entry : I personally believe they should enforce it if that is a legal position.

We will always have people who don't want to follow society norms or even the law of the land....such is the way of things. If that impacts exactly no one but themselves I'm willing to turn a blind eye somewhat. If you want to run around naked in the woods.......go right ahead....but don't come streaking through Tesco's or my street. Where it may directly affect me I take more of a stand.

Those who don't want to wear a mask I'm fine with....just don't come in my face shouting its your "right"...which we see in many shops / bars etc if legitimately challenged or questioned as per some stories above.....and if there are some rules (legally made) that mean you can't do some things then its a choice you make.

If, at the end of it all, its found masks make not one jot of difference, it will have made not the slightest dent on my existence (except for about £30 spent on masks).

[monthou]

Colonel Cupcake said:

monthou said:

Brave Fart said:

monthou said:

Are you an expert in virology, epidemiology or a related field?

No I'm not. Your point being what, though?

That you're not best placed to evaluate the evidence.
Pretty obvious really.
GCSE biology? Please tell me you got a Grade A.

I never even took Biology and even I know that a crappy blue mask and 3 foot high perspex screens around desks, bars and checkouts don't make an environment 'Covid-secure'.

Of course they don't cupcake.
A crappy blue mask etc will - according to the best advice we have - reduce the risk of transmission somewhat though, which is a bit more nuanced.

Edited by monthou on Thursday 17th June 14:36

[QuickQuack]

pavarotti1980 said:

I had the displeasure of being dragged to Sainsburys last week. Whilst walking in there was a an announcement over the tannoy reminding people to wear masks unless there was a valid exemption. The delightful vest wearing chav family in front took exception to them having the temerity to remind people that they started shouting at the young female security guard (ironically she didnt do the announcement). Shoving phones and exemption cards in her face. All very unsavoury. Her shouting could be heard around the store as I shopped. The security guard must have felt threatened by all this as the police were there as I got to the tills. The female was getting arrested for something. It cheered me up that this utter cretin engineered her own downfall.

I would bet my house on the fact she didnt have an exemption and was sticking her fingers up to the state. I may go back to Sainsburys this week to see if there are any repeats

My wife had someone in their 60s starting to walk into her consulting room without a mask. She politely asked them to stop and to put their mask on before entering. On being asked to do this, the indignant cretin screamed that they had severe asthma and couldn't wear a mask as a result. My wife then calmly pointed out that it really wasn't a good idea to lie about your medical history to your doctor who has been seeing you for the last decade and who also has your medical notes up on the screen available to them.

Some of these people seem to be so used to lying about why they can't wear a mask that they forget that there are some people to whom they cannot lie...

[otolith]

QuickQuack said:

My wife had someone in their 60s starting to walk into her consulting room without a mask. She politely asked them to stop and to put their mask on before entering. On being asked to do this, the indignant cretin screamed that they had severe asthma and couldn't wear a mask as a result. My wife then calmly pointed out that it really wasn't a good idea to lie about your medical history to your doctor who has been seeing you for the last decade and who also has your medical notes up on the screen available to them.

[pavarotti1980]

QuickQuack said:

My wife had someone in their 60s starting to walk into her consulting room without a mask. She politely asked them to stop and to put their mask on before entering. On being asked to do this, the indignant cretin screamed that they had severe asthma and couldn't wear a mask as a result. My wife then calmly pointed out that it really wasn't a good idea to lie about your medical history to your doctor who has been seeing you for the last decade and who also has your medical notes up on the screen available to them.

Some of these people seem to be so used to lying about why they can't wear a mask that they forget that there are some people to whom they cannot lie...

Being thick isn't an exemption either.

[Alucidnation]

otolith said:

QuickQuack said:

My wife had someone in their 60s starting to walk into her consulting room without a mask. She politely asked them to stop and to put their mask on before entering. On being asked to do this, the indignant cretin screamed that they had severe asthma and couldn't wear a mask as a result. My wife then calmly pointed out that it really wasn't a good idea to lie about your medical history to your doctor who has been seeing you for the last decade and who also has your medical notes up on the screen available to them.

[98elise]

CrutyRammers said:

So it appears that all the "pro" arguments boil down to, "the government says do this, and they know best, so you should do it".
There's a noticable lack of any analysis, data, or other evidence. Just endless appeals to authority, repeating of government soundbites, and a sort of blind trust that our masters have our best interests at heart. And with that, the ever-present desire to force others to think and do as they do, not to question, just to accept.

Nobody wants to wear a mask. The pro argument is that the government is advised by a large body of expert scientists and doctors, rather than facebook.

If it's your field of expertise then maybe you have a point, if it's not then your best of taking the advice of experts.

[Tankrizzo]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Wonder what his PH login was on the Cure thread Even admitted he lies and says he's exempt too, brilliant.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

That prick deserves all he gets. One thing you don't do, unless you're terminally daft, is flout the laws in places like that.

[mikeveal]

Brave Fart said:

I object to people (not you, my dear chap) who say "anti maskers are stupid" or something like that. That just shows a lack of respect, and is plain rude, in my opinion.

Sometimes being rude is the only way of getting your point across.
There is no need to be polite with flat earthers, believers in the paranormal, anti-vaxers or anti-maskers. If they are harmlessly going about their business, fine. Where their beliefs adversely affect others, not fine.

I don't care that people dislike masks. So do I. I only care when the precious snowflakes refuse to wear one.

I'm more than happy to call someone stupid for choosing to act against the advice of nearly every government advising expert panel on the planet. That's a pretty good definition of stupid in my book. It's one thing to disbelieve what you're being told. It's another level of arrogance to, as a layman, willingly disregard the advice that masks should be worn to reduce spread of the disease.

People choosing not to wear a mask because they disagree with them deserve the same level of respect that they are showing the rest of society. For clarity, that's none.

[m_cozzy]

QuickQuack said:

My wife had someone in their 60s starting to walk into her consulting room without a mask. She politely asked them to stop and to put their mask on before entering. On being asked to do this, the indignant cretin screamed that they had severe asthma and couldn't wear a mask as a result. My wife then calmly pointed out that it really wasn't a good idea to lie about your medical history to your doctor who has been seeing you for the last decade and who also has your medical notes up on the screen available to them.

Some of these people seem to be so used to lying about why they can't wear a mask that they forget that there are some people to whom they cannot lie...

Stupid woman. Claiming "severe distress" was all she needed to say.

[Colonel Cupcake]

QuickQuack said:

My wife had someone in their 60s starting to walk into her consulting room without a mask. She politely asked them to stop and to put their mask on before entering. On being asked to do this, the indignant cretin screamed that they had severe asthma and couldn't wear a mask as a result. My wife then calmly pointed out that it really wasn't a good idea to lie about your medical history to your doctor who has been seeing you for the last decade and who also has your medical notes up on the screen available to them.

Some of these people seem to be so used to lying about why they can't wear a mask that they forget that there are some people to whom they cannot lie...

You were not present at that interaction.

From what I have seen, it is medical people that are barking orders at people and screaming at them.

My own mask difficulties stem from a childhood incident I had long since put out of my mind. That 'indignant cretin' may have simply used a poor choice of words to describe her own difficulties.

Your arrogant wife needs to learn some bedside manner skills.

[daveinhampshire]

I love reading this but just imagine if something really big happened that caused the deaths of over 100,000 people, tens of thousands of businesses to collapse and all you were worried about was your mask?

[QuickQuack]

m_cozzy said:

QuickQuack said:

My wife had someone in their 60s starting to walk into her consulting room without a mask. She politely asked them to stop and to put their mask on before entering. On being asked to do this, the indignant cretin screamed that they had severe asthma and couldn't wear a mask as a result. My wife then calmly pointed out that it really wasn't a good idea to lie about your medical history to your doctor who has been seeing you for the last decade and who also has your medical notes up on the screen available to them.

Some of these people seem to be so used to lying about why they can't wear a mask that they forget that there are some people to whom they cannot lie...

Stupid woman. Claiming "severe distress" was all she needed to say.

Nope, that wouldn't have worked either. Try again. You don't get away with making claims of imaginary distress to someone who's spent nearly 30 years diagnosing and treating real distress.

The rules are the rules, and within the NHS, they're there to protect THE STAFF. The patients are unwell anyway! Why do you have to lie in order not to obey them when you're clearly a risk to other people, especially in a healthcare setting FFS?!

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Colonel Cupcake said:

You were not present at that interaction.

From what I have seen, it is medical people that are barking orders at people and screaming at them.

My own mask difficulties stem from a childhood incident I had long since put out of my mind. That 'indignant cretin' may have simply used a poor choice of words to describe her own difficulties.

Your arrogant wife needs to learn some bedside manner skills.

OK, cupcake.

You might want to moderate your language a little. I suspect these two might have contributed more during, and know more about, this situation than you're likely to have done.

[QuickQuack]

Colonel Cupcake said:

You were not present at that interaction.

From what I have seen, it is medical people that are barking orders at people and screaming at them.

My own mask difficulties stem from a childhood incident I had long since put out of my mind. That 'indignant cretin' may have simply used a poor choice of words to describe her own difficulties.

Your arrogant wife needs to learn some bedside manner skills.

You know nothing about the patient in question. The indignant cretin was a lying stbag who had already been shouting at the receptionists and creating distress and chaos in the waiting room. Her problem was out and out lying, not using a poor choice of words.

You also know nothing about my wife. Her bedside manner is exemplary as proven by her patient feedback, and she's not arrogant in the least. Given I trained as a cardiothoracic surgeon, I'm the one with the specialist training to be the arrogant cock, not her. Which parts of the words of polite and calm are difficult to understand? You don't seem to possess anywhere near enough synapses to be able to comprehend or comment on an anecdote without descending to personal insults towards the recipient of an expletive ridden tirade from a rude and disruptive individual, and a person who still managed to remain calm and polite despite that tirade. I therefore suggest that you go forth and attempt to multiply with yourself with the aid of a broomstick.

Your reasons for your mask refusal are not an excuse for your vile remarks about my wife and change absolutely nothing. I've had more crap in my childhood than I care to mention here, and I'm still having psychotherapy to be able to get over them. However, I don't use those as excuses for poor behaviour or for being rude. You're the one who needs to take a good look at themselves and their behaviour, because you're the one who is rude and arrogant.

Now for other things. First rule in medical school: Patients lie. Second rule: ALL patients lie. If you find that medical people are barking orders, you can guarantee that one of the following is happening:
1)There's an emergency going on
2) Somebody is lying about something or has screwed something up
3) There's an emergency going on AND somebody is lying about something or has screwed something up

Given the huge rise in people openly lying, a lot of people working in the healthcare sector are absolutely fed up with people takin liberties with the truth. If you find that they're barking orders at you, you're the one that's lying.

[ruggedscotty]

daveinhampshire said:

I love reading this but just imagine if something really big happened that caused the deaths of over 100,000 people, tens of thousands of businesses to collapse and all you were worried about was your mask?

indeed a special kind of self centred person thinking that they can use every excuse to avoid doing what is requested. its ma rights sonny !

Ill look roll the eyes and walk away, they really are not worth bothering about, like that about masks what else are they lax about washing hands general hygine and just being they way they are id rather not be near them.....

[Brave Fart]

mikeveal said:

Sometimes being rude is the only way of getting your point across.
There is no need to be polite with flat earthers, believers in the paranormal, anti-vaxers or anti-maskers. If they are harmlessly going about their business, fine. Where their beliefs adversely affect others, not fine.

I don't care that people dislike masks. So do I. I only care when the precious snowflakes refuse to wear one.

I'm more than happy to call someone stupid for choosing to act against the advice of nearly every government advising expert panel on the planet. That's a pretty good definition of stupid in my book. It's one thing to disbelieve what you're being told. It's another level of arrogance to, as a layman, willingly disregard the advice that masks should be worn to reduce spread of the disease.

People choosing not to wear a mask because they disagree with them deserve the same level of respect that they are showing the rest of society. For clarity, that's none.

So to summarise, you think it's OK to be rude to people whose opinion differs from yours. You think using terms such as "precious snowflake" and "stupid" is acceptable. And you think people who disagree that masks make a difference deserve no respect.
Well, in that case I don't think there's a civil discussion to be had with you, my friend. Good day to you.

[greygoose]

Colonel Cupcake said:

QuickQuack said:

My wife had someone in their 60s starting to walk into her consulting room without a mask. She politely asked them to stop and to put their mask on before entering. On being asked to do this, the indignant cretin screamed that they had severe asthma and couldn't wear a mask as a result. My wife then calmly pointed out that it really wasn't a good idea to lie about your medical history to your doctor who has been seeing you for the last decade and who also has your medical notes up on the screen available to them.

Some of these people seem to be so used to lying about why they can't wear a mask that they forget that there are some people to whom they cannot lie...

You were not present at that interaction.

From what I have seen, it is medical people that are barking orders at people and screaming at them.

My own mask difficulties stem from a childhood incident I had long since put out of my mind. That 'indignant cretin' may have simply used a poor choice of words to describe her own difficulties.

Your arrogant wife needs to learn some bedside manner skills.

Were you there then?

[dave_s13]

monthou said:

Brave Fart said:

monthou said:

What's your opinion based on?

Two things, really:
1) the absence of any random control trials between an unmasked group and an identical group wearing typical face coverings. None of the studies I've seen have done this. They are all compromised by other actions, like social distancing, coinciding with mask wearing.
2) the similarity in infection curves everywhere, despite different mask policies. Or to put it more simply: the virus does what it does, irrespective of our interventions(vaccines excepted). In the UK we didn't have masks until last July and infections fell. Then we mandated masks and infections went up.

The other thing I'd say is that masks themselves do bring problems: they are creating huge problems with littering or landfill, they are consuming vast amounts of polymers creating shortages elsewhere, and they are an impediment to learning about people's expressions, especially with young children trying to learn about adults' faces.

Are you an expert in virology, epidemiology or a related field?

All you need is some basic critical thinking training in the sciences and it's not hard to come to that conclusion...certainly where I am with it.

I've done research appraisal at masters level btw.....it's mainly common sense though.

The face coverings we are wearing are a load of ste.