£144 per hour for non emergency plumber

[Bear-n]

Andeh1 said:

Finally, whatever the outcome please remember, you are not in this alone!

Seconded, from another lurker

Edited by Bear-n on Friday 15th February 20:47

[mangos]

tony wright said:

Obviously I understand this and have followed the thread since the start, but as previously mentioned... who’s to say the won’t lie and say not only did they have the equipment they also spent the time testing for leaks. It will then be the Op’s Word against theirs.

Reason I mentioned this is not to worry the Op, but to possibly pre-warn her and if anyone could advise her if it was to happen what she could do.

The thought of them lying in court has increased further since the allocation heRing on Wednesday when he was happy to lie about when he said he wasn’t a LTD company until 9 months ago

[KungFuPanda]

I’m in with a contribution too in the event the OP loses. I therefore have a vested interest in her not losing!

Looking ahead, you’ll get an order from the Court listing the matter for a final hearing. It will give the date and time for the hearing.

In the same order, the Court will also give you directions scheduling a timetable for the matter to proceed to trial. In a Fast Track matter, there will be certain dates where things will need to happen by ie exchange of documents, exchange of witness statements etc etc.

I think this matter will proceed in the Small Claims Track. If this is the case, it will simply be a case of filing all your evidence with the Court and serving the Claimant with the same at least 14 days before the hearing.

If this is the case, I suggest you produce a small file with everything in. Witness statements, copy invoices, any other documents etc etc. Make sure the file has a cover page and index so you can lead the Judge through it. Make three copies, one you send to the Court, one you send to the other side and one for yourself.

I’ll be in with more advice in due course. Also, feel free to PM. I’ve been a Defendant lawyer for a few years. I’ve been out of the game for a while but still know the ropes.

[KungFuPanda]

Get Companies House printouts to show how long he’s been a Ltd company too.

[Wings]

mangos said:

I paid £42 call out fee as it is.
I don’t expect anything for free.
I also don’t expect to be charged £144 per hour for no work or even attempt to work

Did you only expect to pay the call out fee, did you not expect to pay extra on top for any work the plumber carried out, and did you not enquire of the same before booking the plumber.

As a LL I am often horrified by the hourly going rate for plumbers, gas engineers, carpenters etc. etc., I honestly sympathies with your situation, just wanting you to see the other person's side, a side that the judge might possibly also consider.

[KungFuPanda]

As I understand it, they didn’t do any extra work though.

[mangos]

Wings said:

Did you only expect to pay the call out fee, did you not expect to pay extra on top for any work the plumber carried out, and did you not enquire of the same before booking the plumber.

As a LL I am often horrified by the hourly going rate for plumbers, gas engineers, carpenters etc. etc., I honestly sympathies with your situation, just wanting you to see the other person's side, a side that the judge might possibly also consider.

If someone does work in my house they get paid for it.

A year before he arrived I had done a full renovation of our house. Ok so it’s only a small house so not PistonHeads palatial standards, but I had trades in doing all manor of work.

Never did I have an issue and when anything seemed to be going in the wrong direction I spoke to the trader and it was rectified without any problems.

I work in construction industry myself. I’ve never experienced something like this with this company ever in my life (although I’m only 33).

In actual fact, I’ve lost quite a bit of confidenc since it’s happened.
I would have described myself as a confident person dealing with trades before.
I want to have an extension done which we were planning for this summer originally.
As it goes I don’t really want to risk anything like this happening again.
I’ve thought about just putting a downstairs WC in rather than an extension just to manage in the house as it is but it’s a set back.
I’m working part time so naturally the general dealing with trades falls to me.

I am embarrassed by how easily something as small as a request for a quote for a boiler and leak detection has escalated.

I’m embarrassed I didn’t check his Facebook or website or any other history.
Especially as I was new to the area.
I have so many contacts for these things with trusted people in the past that I’ve never really worried.
I trust people. Well not so much anymore.

It’s reading this back that makes me realise that maybe I have just been stupid. I should just accept I’ve been stupid on this occasion, learn from it and move on.
Rather than extending il sell and move to something that suits instead

Edited by mangos on Friday 15th February 21:24

[Red Devil]

Pinkie15 said:

Have been following from beginning, but not had anything to add, until now.

No one seems to have picked up on this bit:

mangos said:

The first thing the judge asked was who the claimant was due to what was on the claim form didn’t match up to the invoice. The guy lied to the judge saying that he was on trading as Igm back then and has only been a limited company in the last 8 months (lie).

Surely you need to work this into your evidence; which you'll disclose when requested prior to the hearing, of course.

If the invoice you signed in your house has IGM Ltd on it (rather than joe blogs trading as ...) then that must be who brings the case. I'm sure way back when this started someone, maybe yourself mangos, posted an entry from company's house showing the limited company.

If me I'd include this in my "evidence pack" to question whether the correct legal body, the company or him, has brought this action (at least that's what it looks like you're doing on the surface).

What you're really doing is saying to the judge: "this bloke stated in a court to a judge [the hearing the other day] he wasn't a ltd company at the time; this/these documents show he was and demonstrate that he is prepared to lie in court. Therefore, can you really believe anything this person tells you ?"

I think you'll find I did pick up on the mismatch (claim in one name v invoice to the OP in another) some time ago.
See my posts on pages 19 & 20. That discrepancy is not necessarily a killer blow in itself. The judge may give the claimant leave to amend.
What will be more powerful is the claimant's incorrect assertion to the judge at the hearing allocation that he has only been trading as a limited company for 8 months.
If that were the case how does he explain having filed an unaudited financial statement at Companies House for the period 13th March 2017 to 31st March 2018?
It is unwise to use the words lie/liar. Tell the judge it appears to be an attempt to mislead the court and that goes to the heart of the claimant's reliability.
Let the judge make the appropriate inference.

@mangos, please PM me through my profile. I can then respond directly without having to wait for PH to amend yours to accept e-mails sent via the forum.

[askew]

Bear-n said:

Andeh1 said:

Finally, whatever the outcome please remember, you are not in this alone!

Seconded, from another lurker

Edited by Bear-n on Friday 15th February 20:47

+1

I wonder if is worth collating some kind of Google Doc to piece together some of the suggestions that have been made in here about what mangos should pick up on, the kind of questions to ask etc, rather than have them scattered throughout the thread?

[mangos]

Thank you Hoofy & Red Devil for the emails you have sent. I have responded to both this morning.

I have checked my pistonheads profile and my email address still hasn't been updated on there.

I am doing my best to take my mind off things for the weekend but a few thoughts keep popping into my mind.

On the basis that this man is a nutcase and not adverse to presenting false information to a court, and after discussing next plan with close family it might be that I just pay to get this out of my life.

It's not doing my health any good and its like a black cloud hanging over me at the moment.

The questions on my mind are:

If I do pay him the full amount requested on the claim, what is the latest point I can do so? For example, if I was given a court date, could I pay him the day before and I wouldnt need to attend?

I can't come to a reasonable value that I could ever agree that his attendance to my house is worth, so i don't feel I can forward him an offer that he will accept to settle out of court that is lower than what he is asking.
However, could I for example transfer the balance of the original invoice value (£174) along with sending correspondence along the lines of - I am paying you your requested invoice value. I have not paid the additional fees due to etc etc etc.
If I did that and he still wanted to pursue me for the £150 left over from the claim value and how would this be taken if it still ended up in court?

If I do not pay outside of court and I have a decent defence prepared. Do I still need to attend court? I have heard that sometimes you can submit a defence and not need to attend.
This initial allocation hearing if anything has shown me that I am not built for court. If it was myself in front of a judge against a reasonable person i don't think I would find it so scary, but this man is off the scale scary to me.
Just being faced with him bought back so many memories of that day when he was in my house. I really don't think I can face him again. I never want to see him. I have been having panic attacks.

Last question - home security. Is a ring doorbell or wireless camera worth investing in? If any further threats came or if someone tried to come and scare me at my home does the footage count for anything?

[yanyan]

mangos said:

Thank you Hoofy & Red Devil for the emails you have sent. I have responded to both this morning.

I have checked my pistonheads profile and my email address still hasn't been updated on there.

I am doing my best to take my mind off things for the weekend but a few thoughts keep popping into my mind.

On the basis that this man is a nutcase and not adverse to presenting false information to a court, and after discussing next plan with close family it might be that I just pay to get this out of my life.

It's not doing my health any good and its like a black cloud hanging over me at the moment.

The questions on my mind are:

If I do pay him the full amount requested on the claim, what is the latest point I can do so? For example, if I was given a court date, could I pay him the day before and I wouldnt need to attend?

I can't come to a reasonable value that I could ever agree that his attendance to my house is worth, so i don't feel I can forward him an offer that he will accept to settle out of court that is lower than what he is asking.
However, could I for example transfer the balance of the original invoice value (£174) along with sending correspondence along the lines of - I am paying you your requested invoice value. I have not paid the additional fees due to etc etc etc.
If I did that and he still wanted to pursue me for the £150 left over from the claim value and how would this be taken if it still ended up in court?

If I do not pay outside of court and I have a decent defence prepared. Do I still need to attend court? I have heard that sometimes you can submit a defence and not need to attend.
This initial allocation hearing if anything has shown me that I am not built for court. If it was myself in front of a judge against a reasonable person i don't think I would find it so scary, but this man is off the scale scary to me.
Just being faced with him bought back so many memories of that day when he was in my house. I really don't think I can face him again. I never want to see him. I have been having panic attacks.

Last question - home security. Is a ring doorbell or wireless camera worth investing in? If any further threats came or if someone tried to come and scare me at my home does the footage count for anything?

You've come this far - I applaud you. In my opinion, you shouldn't bottle it and back out now. You are wobbling. He won't wobble because he isn't wired that way. I'm sure a fair and reasonable judge will see this shíthouse for what he is. Stay strong.

[ELD3R]

Please don't give up. The more people give in to his tactics, the more he is likely to keep using them on others. You clearly thought what he did was wrong, please stay strong and see this through.

[tony wright]

I assume if you did give in to him he would definitely want the full amount and I wouldn’t put it past him to demand possibly more i.e. his travel, time costs etc. He would also class it as a moral victory and certainly carry on unscrupulously demanding money from other vulnerable people. Whereas, if you were to win and he came anywhere near you or your premises a quick call to the police would certainly put him in his place.

You didn’t mention your Husband in your previous day at court, did he not attend? If not, could he or your parents not take a day off for your next appearance, it would certainly help with the moral support. Obviously your Father may live the otherside of the Country, but if it was my Daughter, although I assume you have probably not told him how worried you are, nothing would stop me being there for her.

[vitesse2000]

Can you use a Mackenzie Friend in this situation?

[Alucidnation]

Personally, i would have just paid up and then dissed him on SM.

Six months for all this is way over the top and even then, not 100% sure you'll 'win'.

Good luck though.

[V8mate]

Yep - six months spent creating false profiles to wreak havoc on his business would have been far more fun

[bad company]

vitesse2000 said:

Can you use a Mackenzie Friend in this situation?

Yes you can. I’ve been to County Courts several times so have some experience. I’d be very happy to attend with the op if that helps. I can’t help thinking she can find someone better qualified though.

[dickymint]

bad company said:

vitesse2000 said:

Can you use a Mackenzie Friend in this situation?

Yes you can. I’ve been to County Courts several times so have some experience. I’d be very happy to attend with the op if that helps. I can’t help thinking she can find someone better qualified though.

I’d be quite happy to tag along if only to share a Strongbow or three .... win or lose

[QuickQuack]

hyphen said:

dickymint said:

Anybody else up for a bit of 'crowd funding' should Mangos end up out of pocket?

I'm in. Best of luck OP.

Another thread lurker here and count me in too. I'll happily pay any and all losses by mangos.

dickymint said:

bad company said:

vitesse2000 said:

Can you use a Mackenzie Friend in this situation?

Yes you can. I’ve been to County Courts several times so have some experience. I’d be very happy to attend with the op if that helps. I can’t help thinking she can find someone better qualified though.

I’d be quite happy to tag along if only to share a Strongbow or three .... win or lose

And I'll also volunteer to tag along too. If my daughter, or sons for that matter, not just my daughter, were ever in this situation, I'd move heaven and earth to be there as well as helping and supporting them along the way. Hertfordshire isn't too far from Northamptonshire.

[anonymous-user]

OP, please email me the Claim, defence, any directions given by the court, and any witness statements and I will give you some suggestions based on having been a professional shouty person since approx 1181.