Priorities Right?
Discussion
BlackStuff said:
What worries me is where we'll hear it again! The same lot are already well on the way to a complete blanket ban on off-road driving in the National Park, basically getting ALL the miles of green lanes and unsurfaced roads reclassified as footpaths. My suspicions are that this will be followed by bans on mountain biking, rallying, rock-climbing, then wind-surfing and possibly even sailing. If this sounds crazy remember that it is only about ten years ago that they tried to push through a "Traffic Management Initiative" which would have closed about 70% of Lake District Roads to motorised traffic, including roads like Hardknott and Wrynose Passes etc.
Indeed I raised the green lane issue in my earlier rant.
Didn't I read that they intend to close one of the passes this winter?
They DID close Gatescarth Pass last year, I'm sad to relate.
This is a very rough, very steep, unmetalled "pack-horse" route that connects Mardale (= Haweswater - the reservoir that dries out in droughts revealing the village in the bottom) with Longsleddale, about 5 miles north of Kendal.
The devious story behind this reveals the sort of thinking that goes on.
LDNPA complained about the state this road was in, and "assumed" that it was caused by off-road 4x4 / trailbike usage. So they approached LARA (which is a voluntary organisation that supports off-roading) and they thrashed out a joint "management plan". LARA already had a voluntary code in place to limit excessive use of the classic Lakeland off-road trails, but the LDNPA took this a step further for Gatescarth Pass, limiting driving / motorcycling to just 1 day a month whilst the environmental impact was assessed. Meanwhile horses could only now use the route if they (ok I mean their owners
) applied for a permit beforehand (which contained the combination for the locked gates which now guard either end of the pass). (The irony of banning horse riders from what was originally a pack-horse route seems to have escaped the LDNPA).
So with this new restriction in place, LARA worked with LDNPA to repair the erosion on the route, with their volunteers going up there in their droves to repair the route with stone etc. The result is a massive improvement in the road surface, which is now resistant to water erosion (which is what did all the damage in the first place).
Now the happy ending should be that the off-roaders have proved they care about the environment and that such things can be managed, so they are now free to use the route again under the previous sensible voluntary code, right?
Not quite. What has actually happened is that the LDNPA have made a huge song and dance about how much the route has miraculously improved because they stopped people from driving over it, and used this as a justification for stopping off-roading everywhere else.
LARA (rightly) are up in arms about this, and publically withdrew the previous voluntary usage code, saying that the LDNPA can't be trusted and if they want a fight they've got one! They did all the repair work on the understanding it was safeguarding the route for their future use, not just for the walkers, who in all honesty are the ones that cause all the damage in the first place! Of course this plays perfectly into the hands of the LDNPA, who can now brand LARA as "irresponsible".
And so it goes on. Your National Park in their hands...
This is a very rough, very steep, unmetalled "pack-horse" route that connects Mardale (= Haweswater - the reservoir that dries out in droughts revealing the village in the bottom) with Longsleddale, about 5 miles north of Kendal.
The devious story behind this reveals the sort of thinking that goes on.
LDNPA complained about the state this road was in, and "assumed" that it was caused by off-road 4x4 / trailbike usage. So they approached LARA (which is a voluntary organisation that supports off-roading) and they thrashed out a joint "management plan". LARA already had a voluntary code in place to limit excessive use of the classic Lakeland off-road trails, but the LDNPA took this a step further for Gatescarth Pass, limiting driving / motorcycling to just 1 day a month whilst the environmental impact was assessed. Meanwhile horses could only now use the route if they (ok I mean their owners
) applied for a permit beforehand (which contained the combination for the locked gates which now guard either end of the pass). (The irony of banning horse riders from what was originally a pack-horse route seems to have escaped the LDNPA). So with this new restriction in place, LARA worked with LDNPA to repair the erosion on the route, with their volunteers going up there in their droves to repair the route with stone etc. The result is a massive improvement in the road surface, which is now resistant to water erosion (which is what did all the damage in the first place).
Now the happy ending should be that the off-roaders have proved they care about the environment and that such things can be managed, so they are now free to use the route again under the previous sensible voluntary code, right?
Not quite. What has actually happened is that the LDNPA have made a huge song and dance about how much the route has miraculously improved because they stopped people from driving over it, and used this as a justification for stopping off-roading everywhere else.
LARA (rightly) are up in arms about this, and publically withdrew the previous voluntary usage code, saying that the LDNPA can't be trusted and if they want a fight they've got one! They did all the repair work on the understanding it was safeguarding the route for their future use, not just for the walkers, who in all honesty are the ones that cause all the damage in the first place! Of course this plays perfectly into the hands of the LDNPA, who can now brand LARA as "irresponsible".
And so it goes on. Your National Park in their hands...
BlackStuff said:
And so it goes on. Your National Park in their hands...
Makes one wonder when they will be setting up plans to drain the Norfolk Broads because of all these nasty boating hullaballoos.
I know Blackstuff will get the irony, but that is NOT a serious suggestion to any lentilist reading this.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Wednesday 22 September 15:28
Flat in Fifth said:
BlackStuff said:
And so it goes on. Your National Park in their hands...
Makes one wonder when they will be setting up plans to drain the Norfolk Broads because of all these nasty boating hullaballoos.
I know Blackstuff will get the irony, but that is NOT a serious suggestion to any lentilist reading this.
Irony received in good working order, many thanks.
But as noted, do watch what you suggest to the sandalista - they don't do irony!
Sorry for the two extended rants, but the bottom line is that I was born and brought up here, to me at least it's the nicest part of the island. Yet the lasting damage being done by the very body that is supposedly entrusted with its welfare nearly brings tears to my eyes!
I moved back here so that my children could enjoy all the benefits of living here, like I did. But its starting to look like they will be restricted from doing just about anything that might actually be termed fun, so that fellwalkers can have exclusive use of the whole county, free to cause as much damage and erosion as they please!
>> Edited by BlackStuff on Wednesday 22 September 15:42
Streetcop said:
Fiddlesticks and Poppycock....
Street, have you been reading Charles Dickens a lot recently? I mean do you get speeders into the back of your T5 and say, "Bah! Humbug! you sir, were indubitably speeding forsooth, this scroll I serve on thee commands you to pay 30 Guineas to the Crown, and hang your unworthy head in shame!" or something?
Give me the poll tax any day. It was totally fair. As ever, the spongers of society took exception to be asked to contribute.
FPNs.... not entirely a bad idea in certain circumstances. E.g. the pissed bloke, who can't keep his gob shut when friendly BiB suggests he should retire to his abode, following his evening of alcohol consumption. Sobers up in cell following morning. Turns out, he's a working, decent bloke, never been in trouble before, very apologetic. Should he be sent to Court? Or an £80 FPN for Disorderley Behaviour, which doesn't cost the Court time, and nor does it keep BiB in the nick doing a file.
Be fair, but for the grace of God and all that.....
Thieves though? If minor then first time a caution. Second offence - Court and a community based punishment. Third time - 6 months HMP.
Fourth? Yep... chop the thieving b@stards hands off.
FPNs.... not entirely a bad idea in certain circumstances. E.g. the pissed bloke, who can't keep his gob shut when friendly BiB suggests he should retire to his abode, following his evening of alcohol consumption. Sobers up in cell following morning. Turns out, he's a working, decent bloke, never been in trouble before, very apologetic. Should he be sent to Court? Or an £80 FPN for Disorderley Behaviour, which doesn't cost the Court time, and nor does it keep BiB in the nick doing a file.
Be fair, but for the grace of God and all that.....
Thieves though? If minor then first time a caution. Second offence - Court and a community based punishment. Third time - 6 months HMP.
Fourth? Yep... chop the thieving b@stards hands off.
IOLAIRE said:
Fiddlesticks and Poppycock....
Street, have you been reading Charles Dickens a lot recently? I mean do you get speeders into the back of your T5 and say, "Bah! Humbug! you sir, were indubitably speeding forsooth, this scroll I serve on thee commands you to pay 30 Guineas to the Crown, and hang your unworthy head in shame!" or something?
I have been known to quote similar things..
Today was a quite busy day....A few no seat belters..a couple of mobile phone whilst driving users and 3 on the clearways (2 of which were HGVs while the driver had gone into nearby take-aways)
Oh and 3 points and £60 for a bloke crossing a solid white line to overtake a queue of cars..
Street
Quinny said:
Street, a quick question.
re double white lines.
If I was traveling down a road with double whites, and saw a bike behind, and moved over to the left to give him room to pass (as I always do)
and he/she passes, but dosen't cross the solids, ie stays on the right side of the road but still comes passed me
Is this an offence? is the offence overtaking when there are solids? or is it crossing solids?
As in my senario the biker hasn't actually crossed the solids.
Andy.
No offence mate....solid white lines mean do not cross, not No Overtaking....as you guessed..
When out on my machine..many drivers have the decency to pull over to allow me through...
Good question mate..
Street
xxplod said:
Give me the poll tax any day. It was totally fair. As ever, the spongers of society took exception to be asked to contribute.
Yes I think that's right. All individuals should be making a reasonable contribution subject to their ability to pay.
xxplod said:
Thieves though? If minor then first time a caution. Second offence - Court and a community based punishment.
Rather than a community based punishment I think the thief should primarily be made to put things right for the particular individual(s) he has robbed, rather than being given a community service order.
By all means use a community type punishment where there is no single identifiable victim, such as general vandalism to public property.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
rsvmilly said:
And you should also bear in mind that if the car you are following is travelling at less than 20mph, you can cross the solids to overtake him.
Incorrect, I'm afraid..
Road Traffic Act (if I rememer rightly) states;
You may cross a solid white line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle etc, if they are travelling at 10mph or less...and only then when you can see the road ahead to be clear..
Street
jesusbuiltmycar said:
The Anti-War protests.......FAILED
The petrol protests.........FAILED
And good ol maggie crushed the miners in th 80s
So I guess that direct action has achieved nothing in my lifetime, not to mention the fact that most of the methods of direct action are illegal.
Anti war protests aren't direct action - by and large peaceful protest - waste of time
Petrol Protests wasn't wide spread - it has to be wide spead in terms of people - It has the basis - outside the drivers no one moved to stop it. Was only broken when the oil companies were told they would face windfall taxes if they didn't sort it out. If others joined it that would have suceeded. Even with just the drivers emergency procedures were brought into place including rationing and priority use. Trouble was most people while supportive wouldn't live without their car for more than a day or two - once it started to hurt.
The minor's strike failed, again primarly due to the lack of support from the public. If you look at the background you'll see it came very close to bringing the government down.
Two in your live time - poll tax and Northern Ireland but achieved their owns through widespread support and direct action.
Yes most DA is illegal always has been.
Biggest problem today is getting the critical mass - most people just can't be bothered.
Quinny said:
Thanks for that, I wish I'd known this about 12 years ago though, when I had my old Gpz 900 and passed a car that had moved over for me.
3 points and 30 quid if I remember correctly.
You got done? By a beat mobile presumably, not traffic..?
Pity this forum wasn't around then...
Nevermind....water under the bridge and all that..
Take care..
Street
[quote=xxplod]Give me the poll tax any day. It was totally fair. As ever, the spongers of society took exception to be asked to contribute.
quote]
Funny I don't know anyone who doesn't support the principle behind the community charge. However facts remain it was scrapped, its replacement is completely diferrent and is very unluckly to ever be re-introduced due to wide spread and sometimes violent civil disobedence
As you say FPN for first offence maybe a good balance but after that its jail - it isnt hard.
FPN for shop lifting is just an occupation hazard.
quote]
Funny I don't know anyone who doesn't support the principle behind the community charge. However facts remain it was scrapped, its replacement is completely diferrent and is very unluckly to ever be re-introduced due to wide spread and sometimes violent civil disobedence
As you say FPN for first offence maybe a good balance but after that its jail - it isnt hard.
FPN for shop lifting is just an occupation hazard.
Streetcop said:
Streetcop said:
Fiddlesticks and Poppycock....
What is?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Everything....
Well I meant Direct Action and protests etc....We'll get what we're given in this country and that's that.. It could be far worse...look elsewhere in the world....
Street
Oh hell, fiddlesticks to everything? You been at the amber nectar again (perhaps deservedly) after a hard day?
In general I don't like the idea of direct action as this can end up hurting a lot of people. Even so, I have the feeling that if there were to be sufficient groundswell of feeling on some issue, who knows what might happen, and the politicians do not seem to be taking account of that.
As for elsewhere in the world - well they'll have to sort out their own problems. I'm more immediately concerned about what's happening to what I like to feel is my country, and quite frankly I think there are too many things getting seriously out of balance.
Sorry about the moan... I think I'd better clear off and do my lager lout impression for a while.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
xxplod said:
Give me the poll tax any day. It was totally fair. As ever, the spongers of society took exception to be asked to contribute.
What, even er "travellers" would pay? I wonder. If so, then it may well be fair.
A shame the government backed down on the strength of the spongers' objection.
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