Amber to Red light - lorry.
Discussion
GC8 said:
So much of this is cringe-worthy.
I think there is some drinking going on in tandem with some of the posts here.GC8 said:
It is like an argument about parking, which isnt specifically provided for in law. Every parker isnt prosecuted for obstruction though, so I wonder how this comes about?
What's parking got to do with it?
And the offence isn't obstruction with parking, it' s unnecessary obstruction, so of course every parker isn't prosecuted, only those who are deemed to be unnecessarily obstructing.
I was looking for a motoring related analogy.
There are a lot of car-only driving members here making rather naive posts about the law, who fail to realise that it would be virtually impossible to drive a large vehicle if the law was applied in the manner that they appear to be arguing for.
There are a lot of car-only driving members here making rather naive posts about the law, who fail to realise that it would be virtually impossible to drive a large vehicle if the law was applied in the manner that they appear to be arguing for.
GC8 said:
I was looking for a motoring related analogy.
There are a lot of car-only driving members here making rather naive posts about the law, who fail to realise that it would be virtually impossible to drive a large vehicle if the law was applied in the manner that they appear to be arguing for.
The issue of what the law is & how it is applied are separate issues.There are a lot of car-only driving members here making rather naive posts about the law, who fail to realise that it would be virtually impossible to drive a large vehicle if the law was applied in the manner that they appear to be arguing for.
eg
The law is that you must not exceed the 30mph limit.
It is not applied so that everyone doing 31 is prosecuted.
So the offence was complete but a magistrate would overrule any FPN or NIP or whatever it’s called (I’ve never had the displeasure) because the action of crossing the line was perfectly reasonable and justifiable on grounds of safety? Is that the jist of the argument and counter arguments in here?
It does seem that the law is a bit of an ass in its wording to me. There’s simply no practical way an HGV could guarantee the back wheels crossed on green if moving slowly and the lights started to change after the commitment was made. If that were the expectation we’d need timers like they have for peds in the US.
It does seem that the law is a bit of an ass in its wording to me. There’s simply no practical way an HGV could guarantee the back wheels crossed on green if moving slowly and the lights started to change after the commitment was made. If that were the expectation we’d need timers like they have for peds in the US.
djc206 said:
So the offence was complete but a magistrate would overrule any FPN or NIP or whatever it’s called (I’ve never had the displeasure) because the action of crossing the line was perfectly reasonable and justifiable on grounds of safety? Is that the jist of the argument and counter arguments in here?
It does seem that the law is a bit of an ass in its wording to me. There’s simply no practical way an HGV could guarantee the back wheels crossed on green if moving slowly and the lights started to change after the commitment was made. If that were the expectation we’d need timers like they have for peds in the US.
If it gets to a Magistrate they are likely to apply the law. The question for them to consider is whether the offence is proved.It does seem that the law is a bit of an ass in its wording to me. There’s simply no practical way an HGV could guarantee the back wheels crossed on green if moving slowly and the lights started to change after the commitment was made. If that were the expectation we’d need timers like they have for peds in the US.
The CPS/Police add an extra layer to that test before it gets to that.
They consider is there sufficient evidence to prosecute & also is it in the public interest to prosecute.
That judgement is their's, not the offender's view on it.
vonhosen said:
If it gets to a Magistrate they are likely to apply the law. The question for them to consider is whether the offence is proved.
The CPS/Police add an extra layer to that test before it gets to that.
They consider is there sufficient evidence to prosecute & also is it in the public interest to prosecute.
That judgement is their's, not the offender's view on it.
So someone somewhere must be intervening a lot because otherwise most of our HGV and bus drivers would have points coming out of their ears for crossing the line on green or early amber and the rear of the vehicle crossing on red? I just don’t see how anyone could be expected to anticipate a light change that would affect the rear of their long vehicle, it’s a very bizarre law if it is interpreted as you say.The CPS/Police add an extra layer to that test before it gets to that.
They consider is there sufficient evidence to prosecute & also is it in the public interest to prosecute.
That judgement is their's, not the offender's view on it.
djc206 said:
vonhosen said:
If it gets to a Magistrate they are likely to apply the law. The question for them to consider is whether the offence is proved.
The CPS/Police add an extra layer to that test before it gets to that.
They consider is there sufficient evidence to prosecute & also is it in the public interest to prosecute.
That judgement is their's, not the offender's view on it.
So someone somewhere must be intervening a lot because otherwise most of our HGV and bus drivers would have points coming out of their ears for crossing the line on green or early amber and the rear of the vehicle crossing on red? I just don’t see how anyone could be expected to anticipate a light change that would affect the rear of their long vehicle, it’s a very bizarre law if it is interpreted as you say.The CPS/Police add an extra layer to that test before it gets to that.
They consider is there sufficient evidence to prosecute & also is it in the public interest to prosecute.
That judgement is their's, not the offender's view on it.
I've driven LGVs & PCVs for years & haven't had a lot of trouble with it.
You have three seconds of amber & a second+ before the cameras become live.
This thread has been an education. I thought if you began to cross before red you were ok to continue.
I'm extra careful now as my only endorsement was for failing to obey a red at Fosse Park in Leicester. I thought I was amber gambling but the NIP was a surprise. If it measures when the back of the car crossed the line, it makes more sense. All done by a camera, I never saw a flash. It's a major junction with multiple gantries so I also don't know if it was measured from the next line on from the actual roundabout? I was something like 1.5 seconds into red apparently (bad!)
I never contested it so didn't see the pics, hoping for a "red light course" (they do exist!) but didn't get offered one. It didn't affect my insurance apart from an admin fee but I suppose OP's NIP will go to his employer...
I've had more than one person beep at me for stopping on amber since then. Normally when it goes red another one or two cars go through. I've even had cars go past in the wrong lane then switch back on the junction.
I'm extra careful now as my only endorsement was for failing to obey a red at Fosse Park in Leicester. I thought I was amber gambling but the NIP was a surprise. If it measures when the back of the car crossed the line, it makes more sense. All done by a camera, I never saw a flash. It's a major junction with multiple gantries so I also don't know if it was measured from the next line on from the actual roundabout? I was something like 1.5 seconds into red apparently (bad!)
I never contested it so didn't see the pics, hoping for a "red light course" (they do exist!) but didn't get offered one. It didn't affect my insurance apart from an admin fee but I suppose OP's NIP will go to his employer...
I've had more than one person beep at me for stopping on amber since then. Normally when it goes red another one or two cars go through. I've even had cars go past in the wrong lane then switch back on the junction.
vonhosen said:
Not really.
I've driven LGVs & PCVs for years & haven't had a lot of trouble with it.
You have three seconds of amber & a second+ before the cameras become live.
You wouldn’t necessarily know! I know that’s only roughly 7mph but if you pulled away and then the light changed you could be blissfully unaware but in contravention.I've driven LGVs & PCVs for years & haven't had a lot of trouble with it.
You have three seconds of amber & a second+ before the cameras become live.
djc206 said:
vonhosen said:
Not really.
I've driven LGVs & PCVs for years & haven't had a lot of trouble with it.
You have three seconds of amber & a second+ before the cameras become live.
You wouldn’t necessarily know! I know that’s only roughly 7mph but if you pulled away and then the light changed you could be blissfully unaware but in contravention.I've driven LGVs & PCVs for years & haven't had a lot of trouble with it.
You have three seconds of amber & a second+ before the cameras become live.
matt0677 said:
This thread has been an education. I thought if you began to cross before red you were ok to continue.
I'm extra careful now as my only endorsement was for failing to obey a red at Fosse Park in Leicester. I thought I was amber gambling but the NIP was a surprise. If it measures when the back of the car crossed the line, it makes more sense. All done by a camera, I never saw a flash. It's a major junction with multiple gantries so I also don't know if it was measured from the next line on from the actual roundabout? I was something like 1.5 seconds into red apparently (bad!)
I never contested it so didn't see the pics, hoping for a "red light course" (they do exist!) but didn't get offered one. It didn't affect my insurance apart from an admin fee but I suppose OP's NIP will go to his employer...
I've had more than one person beep at me for stopping on amber since then. Normally when it goes red another one or two cars go through. I've even had cars go past in the wrong lane then switch back on the junction.
With cameras there is a sensor before the stop line & another after the stop line. You have to cross both after the camera becomes active to set it off. You can obviously do that with your rear wheels.I'm extra careful now as my only endorsement was for failing to obey a red at Fosse Park in Leicester. I thought I was amber gambling but the NIP was a surprise. If it measures when the back of the car crossed the line, it makes more sense. All done by a camera, I never saw a flash. It's a major junction with multiple gantries so I also don't know if it was measured from the next line on from the actual roundabout? I was something like 1.5 seconds into red apparently (bad!)
I never contested it so didn't see the pics, hoping for a "red light course" (they do exist!) but didn't get offered one. It didn't affect my insurance apart from an admin fee but I suppose OP's NIP will go to his employer...
I've had more than one person beep at me for stopping on amber since then. Normally when it goes red another one or two cars go through. I've even had cars go past in the wrong lane then switch back on the junction.
martinbiz said:
Yes and I think you’re guessing, mistaken, or looking back many years ago when Red light cameras were a new thing, c’mon do you really think they have qualified bods sitting there looking at pictures of every infringement to make sure they’re not being unfair. If a defendant thinks it’s unfair they can take it to court, they’re not going to do that job for you, it’s 2020 get in the real world
I can tell you categorically that the Neopolitan Ice Cream Police have human beings reviewing and making decisions for every single activation of red light and safety cameras in the Neopolitan Ice cream area. 
I will let you guys know whenever I get a ticket or not, however I very highly doubt it considering the circumstances.
I just wanted to see opinions on this, like I said before if I done wrong I suppose I'm gonna have to take the punishment, however in my eyes I would of caused more trouble slamming on the breaks and possibly even then going over the line due to the weight of the vehicle.
Bare in mind I have just about cleared the junction before the other cars started moving off, meaning I didn't cause no obstruction to anyone.
I fully understand the law, however the law is not always designed to help out HGV drivers, it's more or less designed for cars. It's easy to say for a car driver that you should have cleared the junction before the lights turned from amber to red, bare in mind your speed in your car is 1 - quicker 2 - you can squeeze through gaps that lorry can only dream off 3 - accelerate much quicker.
Some people also misunderstood the point the lights were green when I was approaching them, they have literally turned to amber as I was about half a car length away from them, at that point there is not much you can do even in a car other than go for it, there was also a car infront of me which has just about went through on green, as soon as he has crossed the line it went amber and he simply accelerated to clear the junction.
If I was to take that turn at a higher speed i would risk flipping the lorry sideways, no one wants to deal with that, I'm pretty sure anything with common sense that reviews red light tickets would see that there is absolutely nothing you can do.
Slam on breaks = go over the line anyway, possibly cause an accident with the car behind you.
Go through = no accident, no obstruction to anyone, everyones happy, alright the back wheels quite possibly went on red, however as I said nothing you can do about that.
I just wanted to see opinions on this, like I said before if I done wrong I suppose I'm gonna have to take the punishment, however in my eyes I would of caused more trouble slamming on the breaks and possibly even then going over the line due to the weight of the vehicle.
Bare in mind I have just about cleared the junction before the other cars started moving off, meaning I didn't cause no obstruction to anyone.
I fully understand the law, however the law is not always designed to help out HGV drivers, it's more or less designed for cars. It's easy to say for a car driver that you should have cleared the junction before the lights turned from amber to red, bare in mind your speed in your car is 1 - quicker 2 - you can squeeze through gaps that lorry can only dream off 3 - accelerate much quicker.
Some people also misunderstood the point the lights were green when I was approaching them, they have literally turned to amber as I was about half a car length away from them, at that point there is not much you can do even in a car other than go for it, there was also a car infront of me which has just about went through on green, as soon as he has crossed the line it went amber and he simply accelerated to clear the junction.
If I was to take that turn at a higher speed i would risk flipping the lorry sideways, no one wants to deal with that, I'm pretty sure anything with common sense that reviews red light tickets would see that there is absolutely nothing you can do.
Slam on breaks = go over the line anyway, possibly cause an accident with the car behind you.
Go through = no accident, no obstruction to anyone, everyones happy, alright the back wheels quite possibly went on red, however as I said nothing you can do about that.
Baaaartz said:
I will let you guys know whenever I get a ticket or not, however I very highly doubt it considering the circumstances.
I just wanted to see opinions on this, like I said before if I done wrong I suppose I'm gonna have to take the punishment, however in my eyes I would of caused more trouble slamming on the breaks and possibly even then going over the line due to the weight of the vehicle.
Bare in mind I have just about cleared the junction before the other cars started moving off, meaning I didn't cause no obstruction to anyone.
I fully understand the law, however the law is not always designed to help out HGV drivers, it's more or less designed for cars. It's easy to say for a car driver that you should have cleared the junction before the lights turned from amber to red, bare in mind your speed in your car is 1 - quicker 2 - you can squeeze through gaps that lorry can only dream off 3 - accelerate much quicker.
Some people also misunderstood the point the lights were green when I was approaching them, they have literally turned to amber as I was about half a car length away from them, at that point there is not much you can do even in a car other than go for it, there was also a car infront of me which has just about went through on green, as soon as he has crossed the line it went amber and he simply accelerated to clear the junction.
If I was to take that turn at a higher speed i would risk flipping the lorry sideways, no one wants to deal with that, I'm pretty sure anything with common sense that reviews red light tickets would see that there is absolutely nothing you can do.
Slam on breaks = go over the line anyway, possibly cause an accident with the car behind you.
Go through = no accident, no obstruction to anyone, everyones happy, alright the back wheels quite possibly went on red, however as I said nothing you can do about that.
Stop questioning yourself.I just wanted to see opinions on this, like I said before if I done wrong I suppose I'm gonna have to take the punishment, however in my eyes I would of caused more trouble slamming on the breaks and possibly even then going over the line due to the weight of the vehicle.
Bare in mind I have just about cleared the junction before the other cars started moving off, meaning I didn't cause no obstruction to anyone.
I fully understand the law, however the law is not always designed to help out HGV drivers, it's more or less designed for cars. It's easy to say for a car driver that you should have cleared the junction before the lights turned from amber to red, bare in mind your speed in your car is 1 - quicker 2 - you can squeeze through gaps that lorry can only dream off 3 - accelerate much quicker.
Some people also misunderstood the point the lights were green when I was approaching them, they have literally turned to amber as I was about half a car length away from them, at that point there is not much you can do even in a car other than go for it, there was also a car infront of me which has just about went through on green, as soon as he has crossed the line it went amber and he simply accelerated to clear the junction.
If I was to take that turn at a higher speed i would risk flipping the lorry sideways, no one wants to deal with that, I'm pretty sure anything with common sense that reviews red light tickets would see that there is absolutely nothing you can do.
Slam on breaks = go over the line anyway, possibly cause an accident with the car behind you.
Go through = no accident, no obstruction to anyone, everyones happy, alright the back wheels quite possibly went on red, however as I said nothing you can do about that.
The circumstances you described, it was absolutely the correct thing to do.
If you do receive a NIP, I’m sure there are many on PH who will be there for you.
You drove perfectly OP. Don’t doubt yourself.
For sure, I’m a mardy, arguementative f
ker on PH sometimes but I recognise someone who’s ‘done good’.When I have my tracked licence. I’ll ping you a message to come and play!
You’d be welcome as my shotgun, anytime!
TVR1 said:
SS2. said:
Looking at their posting history, I think the OP works around the Hatfield area.
Amateur sleuthing is no longer allowed. I’d suggest you don’t go down this road.
Thanks for the entertainment, though.
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