Caught with no insurance after midnight expiry

[Durzel]

SydneyBridge said:

The police could check if it was insured the day before, ie. Less than half an hour after he was stopped

He wasn't insured at the time of the stop though. When he was last insured is academic.

[syl]

Lord Marylebone said:

Clearly the police saw a young looking lad driving along in a car after midnight and thought they would have a quick look, ANPR or a manual reg check immediately showed no insurance, and here we are.

Do they do that? Imagine if you replaced “young looking lad” with “black person”. I thought age and sex were protected characteristics too.

[Stick Legs]

roadsmash said:

Only on PH would you find so many people who can’t tell the time.

Midnight on Saturday is 00:00... how do people not know this? No one seems to get confused on New Year’s Eve so why is this any different?

At sea we use 2359 and 0001 for just this reason. Nothing is ever written down as 0000.

[Stick Legs]

Algarve said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I'm always amazed people leave stuff this important to chance, relying on a reminder from a third party. My insurance/tax/mot dates are in my phone calendar, on my old skool calendar in the kitchen, and in my wife's phone.

You work in insurance though don't you?

My dogs microchips are all correct, they're all wearing engraved collars and their vaccines are up to date. Given I work in a dog shelter I can at least manage to get that right. I've no idea when my insurance expires though

I thought 'The cobbler's children have no shoes' and 'Have you ever seen a mechanic's car' applied to all trades!

Edited by Stick Legs on Monday 21st September 18:49

[V8 Stang]

Bennet said:

I don't undertstand how retrospective "back dated" cover could be a real thing. Otherwise, just call a short term insurer and ask for back dated cover for that day. Since there were no crashes, presumably they'll happily take his money.

If he was a high net worth client spending £10K+ a year with a broker they may knock up a cover note for good will.

The OP's mate's son has no chance.

[Trevor555]

V8 Stang said:

Bennet said:

I don't undertstand how retrospective "back dated" cover could be a real thing. Otherwise, just call a short term insurer and ask for back dated cover for that day. Since there were no crashes, presumably they'll happily take his money.

If he was a high net worth client spending £10K+ a year with a broker they may knock up a cover note for good will.

The OP's mate's son has no chance.

But couldn't they be had up for perverting the course of justice if the Police looked into it and found he wasn't actually insured?

[NGee]

roadsmash said:

No one seems to get confused on New Year’s Eve so why is this any different?

.

Not quite sure you analogy works.

People go out on new years eve and go home on new years day.
Somewhere in the middle is a midnight. I don't expect many people think about it and even less care whether the midnight is connected to the 'new years eve' or the 'new years day'.

In fact if you asked most people, who were still sober enough, I suspect most would think it was midnight of 'new years eve'. I always did!!!!!

[pilotoscot]

Aren’t we all being a bit rough here? If he’s a young lax, made a mistake and been kept late at work then he should go and explain that.

Don’t deny it. Explain the circumstances. The truth will go along way. Anyway, good luck.

[roadsmash]

NGee said:

roadsmash said:

No one seems to get confused on New Year’s Eve so why is this any different?

.

Not quite sure you analogy works.

People go out on new years eve and go home on new years day.
Somewhere in the middle is a midnight. I don't expect many people think about it and even less care whether the midnight is connected to the 'new years eve' or the 'new years day'.

In fact if you asked most people, who were still sober enough, I suspect most would think it was midnight of 'new years eve'. I always did!!!!!

I was referring to the countdown... to midnight NYD aka 00:00.

You thought the countdown was to NYE? Think about that... does it make any sense?

You’re bringing in the new year... which is 00:00 on Jan 1st!

Edited by roadsmash on Monday 21st September 19:30

[bearman68]

Just wondering if the police had a calibrated clock. If it was really 00:05 it's not a long stretch to assume he was insured when the police stopped him.
Dunno, just thinking.

[WinstonWolf]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

WinstonWolf said:

I was pinged by ANPR, my insurance had lagged by a VERY large margin as I didn't get a renewal notice thanks to Covid.

I'm always amazed people leave stuff this important to chance, relying on a reminder from a third party. My insurance/tax/mot dates are in my phone calendar, on my old skool calendar in the kitchen, and in my wife's phone.

It's worked perfectly until now, I've put it in the diary but every insurer I've ever been with wants my money so they usually pester me to renew...

[BertBert]

roadsmash said:

I was referring to the countdown... to midnight NYD aka 00:00.

You thought the countdown was to NYE? Think about that... does it make any sense?

You’re bringing in the new year... which is 00:00 on Jan 1st!

Edited by roadsmash on Monday 21st September 19:30

Still doesn't work. Most people will think they get to midnight on new years eve, not new year's day to set the fireworks off. They are wrong, but I bet you a quintillion quid that's what the majority of people think.

[roadsmash]

BertBert said:

roadsmash said:

I was referring to the countdown... to midnight NYD aka 00:00.

You thought the countdown was to NYE? Think about that... does it make any sense?

You’re bringing in the new year... which is 00:00 on Jan 1st!

Edited by roadsmash on Monday 21st September 19:30

Still doesn't work. Most people will think they get to midnight on new years eve, not new year's day to set the fireworks off. They are wrong, but I bet you a quintillion quid that's what the majority of people think.

That’s silly!

[The_Nugget]

Durzel said:

It's illegal for an insurer to provide a backdated insurance certificate.

His previous insurer can provide a letter of indemnity to say that they would have covered TP risks at the time he was stopped. This has the effect of invalidating the "driving without insurance" charge.

Whether they will or not is a matter of debate.. they would be inclined to in the event that they made a mistake, or there is some dispute as to who did, but in the event that the policy simply ended they may decide not to. Again, it rather hinges on what was said on that phone call I think.

To be clear - the insurer providing a letter of indemnity is an extraordinary thing, it is not done as a matter of course.

Edited by Durzel on Monday 21st September 17:53

I doubt they would though in this case. Isn’t the reality that they wouldn’t have covered him if he crashed at 00:05 - he expired his policy and told them not to cover him effectively from 00:00
I suggest he sucks it up, he won’t need a car at Uni anyway.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

roadsmash said:

BertBert said:

roadsmash said:

I was referring to the countdown... to midnight NYD aka 00:00.

You thought the countdown was to NYE? Think about that... does it make any sense?

You’re bringing in the new year... which is 00:00 on Jan 1st!

Edited by roadsmash on Monday 21st September 19:30

Still doesn't work. Most people will think they get to midnight on new years eve, not new year's day to set the fireworks off. They are wrong, but I bet you a quintillion quid that's what the majority of people think.

That’s silly!

Not really. If Dec 31 is on Friday, and Jan 1 on Saturday, then if you ask people when is the New Year, they'll say midnight of Friday. Meaning the end of Friday. That may not be technically correct, but that's what most people would say.

[scottyp123]

I remember this for some reason, years and years ago I read the back of one of my certificates and it stated that basic 3rd party insurance would remain in place for 7 days or it even could have been 14 days to facilitate being able to find new insurance cover after expiry of the original policy. This was of course pre internet days and you had to spend half a day in the Swinton insurance shop trying to get new cover. It seemed to be written in such a way that it was a legal requirement to offer this as well. I take it this no longer applies to the current set up.

[vonhosen]

My digital clock

23:59 it said it was still Monday 31st.
At 00:00 it changed to Tuesday 1st.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

V8 Stang said:

Bennet said:

I don't undertstand how retrospective "back dated" cover could be a real thing. Otherwise, just call a short term insurer and ask for back dated cover for that day. Since there were no crashes, presumably they'll happily take his money.

If he was a high net worth client spending £10K+ a year with a broker they may knock up a cover note for good will.

Never in a million years. You know when you visit a professional, be it an insurance broker, accountant, solicitor, etc, and they have all those certificates on the wall with their professional qualifications. Well take it from me, they will never risk throwing them away to save you. They will throw you away to save them.

No insurance broker is going to risk jail for a £10K spend (so maybe £1K commission). Utterly ridiculous.

[scottyp123]

Life was so much more simple when you could get a cover note or MOT of a bloke down the pub who had half inched a pad of them of the unattended desk of the said business. I've known people in long forgotten past that pulled out cover notes that looked like a 2 year old had crayoned them in when they had to do a producer.

[Pothole]

Bigends said:

Officers had discretion to do nothing at the time of the stop, once he'd re-insured.

Not sure why they didnt tell him at the time they were going to report him for no Insurance at the time though - they should have made it clear to him that they intended to deal with the lack of insurance at the time of the stop

Edited by Bigends on Monday 21st September 11:08

You're not sure they didn't. This is a third hand report of an encounter an 18 year old had with officers in the middle of the night.