B+E being scrapped?

[m3jappa]

Is it for the c1 test as well?

I just did mine and the bloke reckons that might be going as well. Which would be a nice situation considering:

I just did the c1 test after months of waiting
i did the b+e test a few years ago
i missed the grandfather rights by 6 months in the first place

[ESD1711]

I expect my opinion is somewhat skewed by the fact I just parted with around £500 getting my B+E in July, having originally missed out on having it by default by maybe 6 months.

But, thinking about it rationally - I can’t see how this is in any way sensible, particularly looking at the reasoning behind it.

1 - I’m not convinced this fixes the shortage of HGV drivers (I’m also not convinced there actually IS a shortage of HGV qualified drivers out there tbh but that’s another debate)

2 - it completely undermines the B+E qualification and the time and money spent by people who have done right by getting it.

3 - even if it DOES do something to address the supposed shortage of HGV drivers, what you’re solving on one hand, you’re creating another problem on the other by rendering the many B+E training companies unviable and putting their owners out of business.

4 - it is completely nonsensical that the Driver and Vehicle STANDARDS Agency see the solution to this as being a blatant REDUCTION in standards.

5 - as an addition to point 4, the timing is utterly laughable. Right now when the staycation is king, camper van hire companies are riding a wave of fully booked till the end of the year and caravan sales are through the roof…… now is absolutely the worst imaginable time to open the floodgates and make towing a free for all.

6 - have seen a lot of folk talking about ‘I better get a refund for my B+E test then. You won’t. Despite the fact the actual test fee represents a relatively small portion of what people spend going through this, that’s money you won’t see back again.

I can understand why a lot of folk will be delighted to see this test removed - but I can’t see how it’s anything other than complete madness.

[journeymanpro]

ESD1711 said:

I expect my opinion is somewhat skewed by the fact I just parted with around £500 getting my B+E in July, having originally missed out on having it by default by maybe 6 months.

But, thinking about it rationally - I can’t see how this is in any way sensible, particularly looking at the reasoning behind it.

1 - I’m not convinced this fixes the shortage of HGV drivers (I’m also not convinced there actually IS a shortage of HGV qualified drivers out there tbh but that’s another debate)

2 - it completely undermines the B+E qualification and the time and money spent by people who have done right by getting it.

3 - even if it DOES do something to address the supposed shortage of HGV drivers, what you’re solving on one hand, you’re creating another problem on the other by rendering the many B+E training companies unviable and putting their owners out of business.

4 - it is completely nonsensical that the Driver and Vehicle STANDARDS Agency see the solution to this as being a blatant REDUCTION in standards.

5 - as an addition to point 4, the timing is utterly laughable. Right now when the staycation is king, camper van hire companies are riding a wave of fully booked till the end of the year and caravan sales are through the roof…… now is absolutely the worst imaginable time to open the floodgates and make towing a free for all.

6 - have seen a lot of folk talking about ‘I better get a refund for my B+E test then. You won’t. Despite the fact the actual test fee represents a relatively small portion of what people spend going through this, that’s money you won’t see back again.

I can understand why a lot of folk will be delighted to see this test removed - but I can’t see how it’s anything other than complete madness.

Sour grapes much? Was daft to have an arbitrary date when you suddenly couldn't tow in the first place.

[Gtom]

journeymanpro said:

Sour grapes much? Was daft to have an arbitrary date when you suddenly couldn't tow in the first place.

I thought exactly the same.

[Dan-k]

Gtom said:

journeymanpro said:

Sour grapes much? Was daft to have an arbitrary date when you suddenly couldn't tow in the first place.

I thought exactly the same.

I feel sorry for the people who passed after the cut, they got caught up in legislative changes and got poor value for money.

They paid the same but got less than before, whereas I got my license and was able to driver 7.5t and able to earn more. - and in those days you had a company assessment from the transport manger and he would decide if you needed training (which they provided) or not.

I’m ready to book the hgv test but I’m holding off a bit because no doubt as soon as I pass they’ll change something which I hope is

class 1 entitlement allows class 2 - so I’ll get a free pass

Or some sort of funding towards it.

[ESD1711]

journeymanpro said:

Sour grapes much? Was daft to have an arbitrary date when you suddenly couldn't tow in the first place.

I did state right at the start that my opinion is probably somewhat skewed given my position - much the same way it would work the other way for anyone sitting rubbing their hands at the thought of inheriting the entitlement training free.

That said, are there any of the points I did raise you want to disagree with?

[Getragdogleg]

Whole thing needs a shake up.

I have a class 2 and can tow a drawbar trailer but I can't get in my 7.5t recovery lorry and tow a trailer with a car on it.

But I can tow the car on a trailer behind my personal car because I'm old enough.

[monthou]

ESD1711 said:

journeymanpro said:

Sour grapes much? Was daft to have an arbitrary date when you suddenly couldn't tow in the first place.

I did state right at the start that my opinion is probably somewhat skewed given my position - much the same way it would work the other way for anyone sitting rubbing their hands at the thought of inheriting the entitlement training free.

That said, are there any of the points I did raise you want to disagree with?

Is there currently a demonstrable difference between the safety of people who've taken the B + E and older drivers who've jumped in without training. If there is, and it's significant, the test should stay. If there isn't, or it's minor, it's pointless.
No axe to grind, I passed in 1985.

[DaveE87]

Learning to reverse with a trailer is the most difficult part for a lot of people. There are of course other parts like placement of weight etc which applies when driving a large van too. Common sense for most people.

If the rules change you won't see a lot of people running out and swapping their beavertails for bigger vans, unless there are changes to O licence rules too (which I don't see happening).

[Armchair Expert]

vonhosen said:

There is a consultation at the moment on giving B+E to all B holders without a further test. This is so that they can free up more LGV tests because of the severe shortage of LGV drivers. They are also talking about being able to go straight to C+E without having to hold C class first.

Consultation ends 7th Sept.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/change...

They are thinking of allowing people to go streight to C+E without doing a C licence first but won't scrap the CPC for people who already drive trucks!

[meatballs]

DaveE87 said:

Learning to reverse with a trailer is the most difficult part for a lot of people. There are of course other parts like placement of weight etc which applies when driving a large van too. Common sense for most people.

If the rules change you won't see a lot of people running out and swapping their beavertails for bigger vans, unless there are changes to O licence rules too (which I don't see happening).

Agree just jumping in a car and towing and finding a situation you have to reverse in without any practice or training would be a nightmare. It's a fairly unnatural set of inputs and then throw in a high sided trailer like a horse trailer and you have no visibility one side.

It generally wouldn't be unsafe, but may cause damage.

The key safety messages about loading, hooking up, brake cable/speeds etc they could potentially do a basic online test like you have to do for drones licenses. Better than just making it a free for all.

[RSTurboPaul]

Armchair Expert said:

vonhosen said:

There is a consultation at the moment on giving B+E to all B holders without a further test. This is so that they can free up more LGV tests because of the severe shortage of LGV drivers. They are also talking about being able to go straight to C+E without having to hold C class first.

Consultation ends 7th Sept.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/change...

They are thinking of allowing people to go streight to C+E without doing a C licence first but won't scrap the CPC for people who already drive trucks!

consultation page said:

The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency is seeking views on proposals to:

allow drivers to take one test to drive both a rigid and articulated lorry, rather than having to pass a test in a rigid lorry first, and then another in an articulated lorry
...

Surely they are two totally different skillsets?

[Adam205]

What has always surprised me is the lengths people would go to to not do a B+E considering how cheap and easy it is.

[Dan-k]

RSTurboPaul said:

Surely they are two totally different skillsets?

No imho class 2 is just a bigger 7.5t.

Class 1 is where I would like to spend my money training as it’s not just a scaled up truck, it’s a completely different ballgame.

Having to do them one after another just doubles up the costs.

[944 Man]

Dan-k said:

RSTurboPaul said:

Surely they are two totally different skillsets?

No imho class 2 is just a bigger 7.5t.

Absolute rubbish.

[944 Man]

Talk of 'Class 1' and 'Class 2' is unhelpful. Drivers with pre-change Class 2 and Class 3 HGV licences will now have a LGV C+E licence (with a 102 endorsement code).

There is no 'Class 1, 2 or 3' any longer and what we have does not relate to these old licence categories. And do not get me started on the idiots who prize a C+E entitlement and belittle Category C, like the wally above.

A 7.5t 'lorry' is a glorified van: the 38.5 tonne eight wheel monsters that 'only' need a CatC entitlement are probably the most difficult vehicles to drive on the road and to liken them identifies you as an idiot, with no idea what you are talking about and who should keep away from LGVs.

[944 Man]

One more thing: anyone who is about to correct me and tell me that the rigid limit is 32 tonnes doesn't know enough to comment.

[m3jappa]

944 Man said:

A 7.5t 'lorry' is a glorified van

They really are.

I did my c1 test last week......in a van, a lwb sprinter which had been plated to 5t.

Which made the test easier.

As i said though the b+e and c1 and nothing more than standard driving tests, little bit about reversing which isn't really a test at all but nothing about weight as such which is imo the whole reason your doing the test.

[QBee]

m3jappa said:

944 Man said:

A 7.5t 'lorry' is a glorified van

They really are.

I did my c1 test last week......in a van, a lwb sprinter which had been plated to 5t.

Which made the test easier.

As i said though the b+e and c1 and nothing more than standard driving tests, little bit about reversing which isn't really a test at all but nothing about weight as such which is imo the whole reason your doing the test.

Having passengered at high speed around Bedford Autodrome in the pouring rain in your TVR Tuscan, mainly sideways but always under control, I cannot imagine the driving gave you any problems.
I am amazed that the test doesn't major on the speed and weight rules and manoeuvering - surely anyone taking the test must have a driving licence already?

[jamesssss]

m3jappa said:

Is it for the c1 test as well?

I just did mine and the bloke reckons that might be going as well. Which would be a nice situation considering:

I just did the c1 test after months of waiting
i did the b+e test a few years ago
i missed the grandfather rights by 6 months in the first place

The website doesn't say anything about removing C1. It does say that the requirement to have C1 before doing C1+E might be going (same as the need to have C before C+E which they want to remove for the lorry driver shortage).

So even if they keep B+E, it might make more sense to do C1+E which will give you C1 and B+E as well. C1+E is just B+E but with a transit van which happens to be plated for >3.5T, instead of a car.