Instant Ban for Drink or Drugged Driving
Discussion
Vasco said:
Dingu said:
megaphone said:
bigothunter said:
megaphone said:
Vasco said:
megaphone said:
5% of road deaths are alcohol related. I'd rather see the police cracking down on the other 95% of causes.
But, DD is an easy nic, cut and dried, makes good headlines, appeases the hysterical masses whilst they carry on driving badly.
How can the police crack down on one of the biggest causes - inattention/distraction ?But, DD is an easy nic, cut and dried, makes good headlines, appeases the hysterical masses whilst they carry on driving badly.
At least drink/drugs is a specific that all drivers can avoid.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-...
Point being I bet a drink driver is a lot more likely to crash than a speeding driver.
Worst all depends how you look at it.
A 'drunk' just over the limit and doing 40 on a quiet country road may be preferable to an idiot driving at 80 through a built up area.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
What us insurance renewals like for someone who has had a drunk/drugs ban? Anyone ran it through a comparison site before?
I think most insurers who do it would load the premium by 100%, so double the price. But with many mature drivers in boring cars paying about £250, a £500 premium is hardly the end of the world. Muzzer79 said:
IMO, the only issue comes in those (rare) cases of mitigation.
For example, if your drinks were evidentially spiked or there is a genuine emergency requiring you to drive under influence.
You can’t prove that at the roadside, hence going to court.
Is that an accepted excuse though?For example, if your drinks were evidentially spiked or there is a genuine emergency requiring you to drive under influence.
You can’t prove that at the roadside, hence going to court.
Some years ago my then wife suddenly felt very unwell during the night. I called the local hospital (rural N Yorkshire) and was put onto the doctor on call. He said he couldn't come out as the paramedic car was already out and he couldn't leave the hospital. He asked me to bring her in. I explained to him that I had been out that evening and had had a few drinks. He asked me how much and I told him "well over the legal limit". He told me to come anyway and if I got stopped to have the policeman call him! I was slightly shocked but my wife was in pain so we went.
The following day I called a friend of mine who was a policeman and he said that 100% I would have been nicked if stopped and breathalysed.
unrepentant said:
Muzzer79 said:
IMO, the only issue comes in those (rare) cases of mitigation.
For example, if your drinks were evidentially spiked or there is a genuine emergency requiring you to drive under influence.
You can’t prove that at the roadside, hence going to court.
Is that an accepted excuse though?For example, if your drinks were evidentially spiked or there is a genuine emergency requiring you to drive under influence.
You can’t prove that at the roadside, hence going to court.
Some years ago my then wife suddenly felt very unwell during the night. I called the local hospital (rural N Yorkshire) and was put onto the doctor on call. He said he couldn't come out as the paramedic car was already out and he couldn't leave the hospital. He asked me to bring her in. I explained to him that I had been out that evening and had had a few drinks. He asked me how much and I told him "well over the legal limit". He told me to come anyway and if I got stopped to have the policeman call him! I was slightly shocked but my wife was in pain so we went.
The following day I called a friend of mine who was a policeman and he said that 100% I would have been nicked if stopped and breathalysed.
So, let's say you are in front of a magistrate. You have presented the doctor as a witness, and he's confirmed that there was an emergency.
Might he then ask you if you phoned a taxi, knocked on the doors of any of the neighbours, etc.
I'd let you off, but you'd need a top London barrister to bring all the case law and take me through it first.
Pit Pony said:
A small price to pay for her life?
So, let's say you are in front of a magistrate. You have presented the doctor as a witness, and he's confirmed that there was an emergency.
Might he then ask you if you phoned a taxi, knocked on the doors of any of the neighbours, etc.
I'd let you off, but you'd need a top London barrister to bring all the case law and take me through it first.
Potential special reasons argument to put before the magistrates.So, let's say you are in front of a magistrate. You have presented the doctor as a witness, and he's confirmed that there was an emergency.
Might he then ask you if you phoned a taxi, knocked on the doors of any of the neighbours, etc.
I'd let you off, but you'd need a top London barrister to bring all the case law and take me through it first.
Dingu said:
Vasco said:
Dingu said:
megaphone said:
bigothunter said:
megaphone said:
Vasco said:
megaphone said:
5% of road deaths are alcohol related. I'd rather see the police cracking down on the other 95% of causes.
But, DD is an easy nic, cut and dried, makes good headlines, appeases the hysterical masses whilst they carry on driving badly.
How can the police crack down on one of the biggest causes - inattention/distraction ?But, DD is an easy nic, cut and dried, makes good headlines, appeases the hysterical masses whilst they carry on driving badly.
At least drink/drugs is a specific that all drivers can avoid.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-...
Point being I bet a drink driver is a lot more likely to crash than a speeding driver.
Worst all depends how you look at it.
A 'drunk' just over the limit and doing 40 on a quiet country road may be preferable to an idiot driving at 80 through a built up area.
Edited by megaphone on Saturday 24th February 16:57
Pit Pony said:
unrepentant said:
Muzzer79 said:
IMO, the only issue comes in those (rare) cases of mitigation.
For example, if your drinks were evidentially spiked or there is a genuine emergency requiring you to drive under influence.
You can’t prove that at the roadside, hence going to court.
Is that an accepted excuse though?For example, if your drinks were evidentially spiked or there is a genuine emergency requiring you to drive under influence.
You can’t prove that at the roadside, hence going to court.
Some years ago my then wife suddenly felt very unwell during the night. I called the local hospital (rural N Yorkshire) and was put onto the doctor on call. He said he couldn't come out as the paramedic car was already out and he couldn't leave the hospital. He asked me to bring her in. I explained to him that I had been out that evening and had had a few drinks. He asked me how much and I told him "well over the legal limit". He told me to come anyway and if I got stopped to have the policeman call him! I was slightly shocked but my wife was in pain so we went.
The following day I called a friend of mine who was a policeman and he said that 100% I would have been nicked if stopped and breathalysed.
So, let's say you are in front of a magistrate. You have presented the doctor as a witness, and he's confirmed that there was an emergency.
Might he then ask you if you phoned a taxi, knocked on the doors of any of the neighbours, etc.
I'd let you off, but you'd need a top London barrister to bring all the case law and take me through it first.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I don't think "I put other people's life in danger by driving whilst over the limit to help someone else whose life was maybe in danger" will get you very far as a defence. Imagine if a loved one of yours was killed by a drink driver running his sick wife to hospital. I doubt you'd be saying "Oh, well that's alright then".
It wouldn't get you anywhere as a defence but might as special reasons mitigation that sees you avoid (significant) punishment.TwigtheWonderkid said:
I don't think "I put other people's life in danger by driving whilst over the limit to help someone else whose life was maybe in danger" will get you very far as a defence. Imagine if a loved one of yours was killed by a drink driver running his sick wife to hospital. I doubt you'd be saying "Oh, well that's alright then".
It isn’t a defence. It’s special reasons and I’ve successfully argued special reasons in the context of a journey to hospital when OPL.agtlaw said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I don't think "I put other people's life in danger by driving whilst over the limit to help someone else whose life was maybe in danger" will get you very far as a defence. Imagine if a loved one of yours was killed by a drink driver running his sick wife to hospital. I doubt you'd be saying "Oh, well that's alright then".
It isn’t a defence. It’s special reasons and I’ve successfully argued special reasons in the context of a journey to hospital when OPL.FMOB said:
I could sort of understand a temporary ban until the offender has been prosecuted but solving the problem of slow courts by letting the police do their job instead is wrong.
Coppers are not Solicitors or Judges.
Indeed.Coppers are not Solicitors or Judges.
I'd support a similar outcome for those who use phones behind the wheel.
This could directly affect me - I'm a medical cannabis patient and what worries me about this is getting randomly stopped and having a drug wipe at the side of the road - and I'd more than likely fail as I take medication most days but I don't drive impaired - the wipe would read positive, I would produce my FP10 and as I'd not be impaired I SHOULD be free to carry on my journey with no further interactions.
The worrying part for me is that this is what is supposed to happen now - but many, many police officers either don't know the law changed in November 2018 when cannabis became legal for private prescription - and if this policy was put into the hands of police only, I'd be wrongfully arrested and disqualified immediately.
Any officers (traffic or otherwise) be able to share their thoughts on this?
bigothunter said:
Funk said:
No from me.
Much as I despise anyone drink- or drug-driving, this puts far too much power in the hands of the police to be judge, jury and executioner. It would be open to abuse, could have far-reaching ramifications and those who don't care or are habitual offenders will ignore it anyway.
The legal system is there to provide checks and balances and that process should be retained in my view.
Precisely Much as I despise anyone drink- or drug-driving, this puts far too much power in the hands of the police to be judge, jury and executioner. It would be open to abuse, could have far-reaching ramifications and those who don't care or are habitual offenders will ignore it anyway.
The legal system is there to provide checks and balances and that process should be retained in my view.
Granting powers to the police beyond their remit is a dangerous precedent. Significant step towards enabling a police state.
This needs to be a decision made by a court . A decision reached by hearing evidence and mitigation if any and the circumstances surrounding the whole case. A crucial part of that evidence when drink driving is suspected is the evidential breath test at the station. So if someone is drunk behind the wheel they are getting a ban. Better to do that after a fair hearing with the offer of a drink drive course and in some circumstances a pre-sentence report. Also, the unlikely but possible right to appeal.
If someone is arrested for drink or drug driving, they are already off the road at the time where they are an immediate danger.
I am not for one moment advocating drink or drug driving, but the process of conviction - and a punishment that can seriously impact someone’s life - should not lie solely in the hands of a PC on the roadside.
Many times I have seen police under cross examination demonstrate gaps in knowledge of the law and procedures. Giving police such powers will potentially leave the door open to all sorts of litigation based on he-said, she-said arguments at the roadside, paperwork not filled in, body cam footage not available etc etc.
It’s a really bad idea. The police have sufficient powers
I
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