5,000 police cars speeding in Essex - no prosecutions
Discussion
God it's like banging your head against a brick wall.
Let me try and expalin this from a different angle. When you are a BiB and not on an immediate response call, you tend to potter around at less than the speed limit because you are looking out for things that might be occurring around you.
You are being paid to drive around for 8 or 10 hours and it doesn't matter what speed you drive at because you get paid anyway. You aren't in a rush to get somewhere because you aren't going anywhere in particular, that's what patrolling is.
If you were to get flashed, even if its evident from the picture that the blue lights are on, it still has to be investigated. I can assure you that the little civvy hitlers within the SCP's would love to get one over on the regular old bill by catching them out. The time and date of the picture is cross referenced with the CAD to confirm what that particular officer/vehicle was doing at the time. It's not guess work.
Please, just drop the conspiracy theories because its getting tedious. I'd be the first say it stinks if it did but believe me, Essex Police are about the most anal out there when it comes to speed and they do practice what they preach. (BTW, no offence to any current Essex BiB!)
Let me try and expalin this from a different angle. When you are a BiB and not on an immediate response call, you tend to potter around at less than the speed limit because you are looking out for things that might be occurring around you.
You are being paid to drive around for 8 or 10 hours and it doesn't matter what speed you drive at because you get paid anyway. You aren't in a rush to get somewhere because you aren't going anywhere in particular, that's what patrolling is.
If you were to get flashed, even if its evident from the picture that the blue lights are on, it still has to be investigated. I can assure you that the little civvy hitlers within the SCP's would love to get one over on the regular old bill by catching them out. The time and date of the picture is cross referenced with the CAD to confirm what that particular officer/vehicle was doing at the time. It's not guess work.
Please, just drop the conspiracy theories because its getting tedious. I'd be the first say it stinks if it did but believe me, Essex Police are about the most anal out there when it comes to speed and they do practice what they preach. (BTW, no offence to any current Essex BiB!)
I can see where alot of people are comming from on this, but it is entirely reasonable that all 5000 odd are justified, i accept that this may be hard to believe, i may find it hard to believe if i didnt do the job i do.
But having driven on immediate, set of cameras and the paperwork farse that comes with it in justifying the activations i can see how exactly they could be justified.
I would like nothing more than to be distanced from innapropriate placing of speed cameras and so do i would imagine alot of police. But the police as it is cannot do this at ground roots. The average PC is unnable to challenge the way things are purely becasue of the way the police is run, exactly the same as the army to a degree. If my boss's say thats the way it is then thats the way it is for me. The only poeple who can make a difference is civilians. You can challenge my boss and he has to justify everything to you, whereas with me i am unnable to do the same.
Dont blame your grass roots BiB we dont make the rules, we dont make the system. And even though speed cameras for the public are a hot topic they in reality have an effect on a majority of drivers but are not a rpiority of grass roots BiB im more concerened with the scrotes out there.
But having driven on immediate, set of cameras and the paperwork farse that comes with it in justifying the activations i can see how exactly they could be justified.
I would like nothing more than to be distanced from innapropriate placing of speed cameras and so do i would imagine alot of police. But the police as it is cannot do this at ground roots. The average PC is unnable to challenge the way things are purely becasue of the way the police is run, exactly the same as the army to a degree. If my boss's say thats the way it is then thats the way it is for me. The only poeple who can make a difference is civilians. You can challenge my boss and he has to justify everything to you, whereas with me i am unnable to do the same.
Dont blame your grass roots BiB we dont make the rules, we dont make the system. And even though speed cameras for the public are a hot topic they in reality have an effect on a majority of drivers but are not a rpiority of grass roots BiB im more concerened with the scrotes out there.
And as a side, as PHC stated. We are a big target for civilians and with regards to driving (as my driving instructor said) "Its the only thing that can cost you your job easily" Because there is nothing more satisfying than sticking a BiB on as an example that civilians are doing there job.
There are departments set up just to do this.
My arse needs to be covered on every aspect of my driving both response and non response. If on standard drive i travel at or below the limit complying with all rules, becasue if i dont i can garentee someone out here will have me investigated and there are people who would be only too happy to investigate me and stick me on.
There are departments set up just to do this.
My arse needs to be covered on every aspect of my driving both response and non response. If on standard drive i travel at or below the limit complying with all rules, becasue if i dont i can garentee someone out here will have me investigated and there are people who would be only too happy to investigate me and stick me on.
, that all the incidents are justified. I am all in favour of BiB and wish that there were more of you patrolling and nicking scrotes and less scameras. Best of luck.
I agree completely that BiB should be allowed to go through scameras as it probably more then justifiable, they are probably going somewhere where they are needed. Is all 5000 legally justifiable hmm probably not but in a real world we shall let it go.
I would like it if i was shown the same amount of discretion
{strange humming noise}
yes i can see how the BiB on the street are annoyed at scameras
{louder humming}
Oh look its the government education machine
SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS
{humming fades into the distance}
now what was i talking about
oh yes
5000 thousand police were speeding they set off safety cameras thats horrible thats like 5000 dead puppies i'm going to write to my MP
I would like it if i was shown the same amount of discretion
{strange humming noise}
yes i can see how the BiB on the street are annoyed at scameras
{louder humming}
Oh look its the government education machine
SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS SPEED KILLS
{humming fades into the distance}
now what was i talking about
oh yes
5000 thousand police were speeding they set off safety cameras thats horrible thats like 5000 dead puppies i'm going to write to my MP
Whilst reading the rest of the postings after my last one, I was listening to Rush - 'Red Barchetta', based on a short story by Ray Bradbury (A Sunday Morning Drive) about a time when electric cars are the only legal transport and motoring for 'pleasure' is illegal. Both are worth listening to/reading for any petrolhead.
The point of all this is: I remember when I was first on the road, we had 'Jam Sandwich' police cars patrolling everywhere, crewed by coppers who pointed out your failings, nabbed you for dodgy mechanicals and crap driving, dragged the p*ss-artists off the road and generally kept law and order on the tarmac (as well as copping the odd pedestrian for being a tw*t) and occasionally gave you a bit of praise for keeping your nose clean. We moaned about them then, but it all seems so much better than today where we have the first steps to The Matrix, with machines posted at the roadside to replace a fellow human in deciding our driving fate. If they came up with a 'W*nker Camera' for all those who really should be using public transport, some form of balance may be restored, but you can't argue your position with a machine.
As motorists, we are in a war-zone. Against B.Liar and his gang, pedestrians who believe they are above the Law, cyclists who ARE above the Law (and require the death penalty for wearing 'Sperm-Helmets', not having insurance or paying anything toward the upkeep of the road that they hog), with the few police patrols doing the same job as the UN peacekeepers in other war-zones around the World.
To cap it all, there was a 'representative' from BRAKE - the organisation for totally stationary traffic - on my local BBC radio station yesterday. Their standpoint is that ALL emergency vehicles must obey speed limits REGARDLESS of the situation they are attending. I wonder how long this attitude would last if THEIR houses was burning down, THEIR kid was choking to death or THEIR car had been nicked by Chavs and was being donutted on the local Council Estate...
The point of all this is: I remember when I was first on the road, we had 'Jam Sandwich' police cars patrolling everywhere, crewed by coppers who pointed out your failings, nabbed you for dodgy mechanicals and crap driving, dragged the p*ss-artists off the road and generally kept law and order on the tarmac (as well as copping the odd pedestrian for being a tw*t) and occasionally gave you a bit of praise for keeping your nose clean. We moaned about them then, but it all seems so much better than today where we have the first steps to The Matrix, with machines posted at the roadside to replace a fellow human in deciding our driving fate. If they came up with a 'W*nker Camera' for all those who really should be using public transport, some form of balance may be restored, but you can't argue your position with a machine.
As motorists, we are in a war-zone. Against B.Liar and his gang, pedestrians who believe they are above the Law, cyclists who ARE above the Law (and require the death penalty for wearing 'Sperm-Helmets', not having insurance or paying anything toward the upkeep of the road that they hog), with the few police patrols doing the same job as the UN peacekeepers in other war-zones around the World.
To cap it all, there was a 'representative' from BRAKE - the organisation for totally stationary traffic - on my local BBC radio station yesterday. Their standpoint is that ALL emergency vehicles must obey speed limits REGARDLESS of the situation they are attending. I wonder how long this attitude would last if THEIR houses was burning down, THEIR kid was choking to death or THEIR car had been nicked by Chavs and was being donutted on the local Council Estate...
MGBGT said:
To cap it all, there was a 'representative' from BRAKE - the organisation for totally stationary traffic - on my local BBC radio station yesterday. Their standpoint is that ALL emergency vehicles must obey speed limits REGARDLESS of the situation they are attending. I wonder how long this attitude would last if THEIR houses was burning down, THEIR kid was choking to death or THEIR car had been nicked by Chavs and was being donutted on the local Council Estate...
More proof that they are truly barking.......
jamesson said:
The problem with Gatsos is no discretion is available and please don't blame the police for installing those cameras, that comes from government guidelines which forces are obliged to follow.
I couldn't agree more. The cameras cause the problem.
But the problem is real and the Police get the blame because the public believes that the Police are responsible for the cameras.
The Police at ground level need to find a way to complain about this problem - your bosses are leaving you in the firing line. If I was BiB, the least I would do is write to the Police Federation. Or how about writing to the Home Secretary? The Home Office has done NOTHING to assess (let alone mitigate) the damage that cameras are doing to the Police / public relationship. I don't believe that's good enough - what do you think?
^Slider^ said:
I think in reality everyone thinks 5000 is a high figure to be on immediate alone.
If you work it out. 5000 activations justified in 6 months = 833 a month = 166ish a week = 23 a day.
23 a day from say 400 cameras.
Each shift will have enough cars to double crew the shift. so say average shift strenght per station is 10 thats 5 cars a shift per station not including traffic, ABO,s specialist units.
In essex say there are 40 stations.
So thats 200 cars. Average time im on shift i will deal with maybe 4 immediate commitments.
So thats 20 potential activations depending on location per shift per station.
Over 40 stations this could mean potential 800 immediates per shift.
3 shifts a day 2400 immediate commitments per day with only 23 activations in essex.
Lets put it into perspective please people.
I appreciate my figues are assumptions, in TVP my shift strength at minumum is 5 in other areas min strength is 20 so i dont hink my estimates are that far out.
The point is that the public aren't 'putting it in perspective'. THAT'S the real problem. And I don't they are likely to either while greedy camera partnerships pray on them.
Agreed that it's a headline figure that look atrocious. Most people won't have the luxury of those figures being put in contect by some contributers to this board.
As some people have said, it looks like one rule for us and one rule for them and that's the way the vast majority of the public would perceive it. Now if they only published the number of officers who get nicked for Drink Drive and keep their job then they might have a point.
As some people have said, it looks like one rule for us and one rule for them and that's the way the vast majority of the public would perceive it. Now if they only published the number of officers who get nicked for Drink Drive and keep their job then they might have a point.
^Slider^ said:
I wonder if the public really know how much discretion they really get when driving considering the number of offences that can be found on a vehicle.
Ever been stopped and not given a producer. Thats discretion too believe it or not.
Ever been told to put your seatbelt on, fix a tail light and not been given a ticket, thats discretion too.
Even to the degree of not stopping someone for a minor offence, discretion applied also!
That's fair enough. I've had the benefit of a lot of discretion. The last time I was stopped was about 35 years ago.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Well...I've called the fire brigade on a 999 when my house was on fire....
I've called the ambulance on a 999 when my mum who takes warfarin was bleeding to death....
On those occasions I was desperate for the respective force to go through every speed camera and every red light to get to me as quickly as possible.
If that meant setting off every camera in Essex so be it....I just wanted them to do their jobs as efficiently as they possibly could.
If ever I was desperate enough to call the police on a 999 it would be because I felt I or a member of my family was in personal danger and the same conditions would apply.....
When you dial 999 and you need someone desperately to help you, every minute seems like a bloody hour and the thought that the ambulance or the fire brigade was having to stick with speed limits would have been extremely stressful on both the occasions I've needed them....and believe me I was stressed enough at the time.
If ever you talk about the police, it is their response times that come in for a lot of criticism.......
Seems they can't win eh!
YP
I've called the ambulance on a 999 when my mum who takes warfarin was bleeding to death....
On those occasions I was desperate for the respective force to go through every speed camera and every red light to get to me as quickly as possible.
If that meant setting off every camera in Essex so be it....I just wanted them to do their jobs as efficiently as they possibly could.
If ever I was desperate enough to call the police on a 999 it would be because I felt I or a member of my family was in personal danger and the same conditions would apply.....
When you dial 999 and you need someone desperately to help you, every minute seems like a bloody hour and the thought that the ambulance or the fire brigade was having to stick with speed limits would have been extremely stressful on both the occasions I've needed them....and believe me I was stressed enough at the time.
If ever you talk about the police, it is their response times that come in for a lot of criticism.......
Seems they can't win eh!
YP
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