AXE ATTACK on Speed Camera Operator and van!

[Deltaf01]

10 Pence Short said:

Delta- you're only treated 'like a criminal' if you break the law in the first place.

Anpr, speed cameras, blah de blah, all systems implimented utilising suspicion as the reason.
I drive so i must be a crimial at some point of the journey so we need this system to catch you.

10 Pence Short said:

The law is the same for everybody.

Obviously not so.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1375837/Straw's-speeding-driver-gets-off.html 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-480749/Slow-Minister--Harriet-Harman-caught-speeding-second-time.html 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5286898.stm 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-435508/The-foreign-drivers-escape-fines-worth-5m.html 

10 Pence Short said:

I'm assuming from your comments above that you do not support there being a speed limit at all in urban areas.

Correct. No speed limits are needed anywhere.
You absolutely DO NOT need to reference numbers on a dial with numbers on a sign to determine a safe speed to travel at.
Hence enforcement of them is pointless, a waste of resources and a source of ill feeling towards the police.

Try it and see for yourself.

[10 Pence Short]

Deltaf01 said:

10 Pence Short said:

I'm assuming from your comments above that you do not support there being a speed limit at all in urban areas.

Correct. No speed limits are needed anywhere.
You absolutely DO NOT need to reference numbers on a dial with numbers on a sign to determine a safe speed to travel at.
Hence enforcement of them is pointless, a waste of resources and a source of ill feeling towards the police.

Try it and see for yourself.

Really?

[CommanderJameson]

10 Pence Short said:

Deltaf01 said:

10 Pence Short said:

I'm assuming from your comments above that you do not support there being a speed limit at all in urban areas.

Correct. No speed limits are needed anywhere.
You absolutely DO NOT need to reference numbers on a dial with numbers on a sign to determine a safe speed to travel at.
Hence enforcement of them is pointless, a waste of resources and a source of ill feeling towards the police.

Try it and see for yourself.

Really?

Really.

Be able to stop in the distance you can see to be and reasonably expect to remain clear.

That's all you need.

[10 Pence Short]

CommanderJameson said:

10 Pence Short said:

Deltaf01 said:

10 Pence Short said:

I'm assuming from your comments above that you do not support there being a speed limit at all in urban areas.

Correct. No speed limits are needed anywhere.
You absolutely DO NOT need to reference numbers on a dial with numbers on a sign to determine a safe speed to travel at.
Hence enforcement of them is pointless, a waste of resources and a source of ill feeling towards the police.

Try it and see for yourself.

Really?

Really.

Be able to stop in the distance you can see to be and reasonably expect to remain clear.

That's all you need.

And you think the judgement powers of every driver in the UK are good enough that they can drive at a suitable speed in built up areas, and that they need no enforcement whatsoever?

[captain gatso]

Friends, Romans, Countrymen lend me your ears!

All I did was hear a news bit on the Radio and post it up to encourage debate on a very serious issue i.e. Speed Cameras and the dangerous side effects they cause, ABH now it seems!

My post does NOT condone this attack whatsoever and neither do I!

My hands are clean, much like Gerry Adams were, my group are only interested in the destruction of Speed Cameras NOT people!

The last thing I want is anyone hurt, injured or killed, the only thing I'm interested in is seeing a complete removal of the failed Speed Camera 'model' by any means nessary, fair or fowl!

Mind you the same cannot be said of this Government what with Iraq and Afganistan, but thats another story of the UK being the puppy of America, the Worlds Police man!

Interestingly, if I'd have posted the exact same story under one of my other alter egos with which I have been on PH since its inception, would the replies have been any different?

I have only started posting on here recently as 'Captain Gatso' as friends suggested it!

I guess Tony and others would have not been so quick to respond, but do advertisers guide your editorial decison to remove or alter posts, are modarators paid?

I hate all forms of CENSORSHIP and Polital Correctness, my Grandfather fought for FREEDOM, FREE SPEECH, DEMOCRACY and a FREE COUNTRY!

One of my favourite non motoring sites is www.order-order.com as every swear word under the sun is mentioned on posts, along with very grown up Political debate!

I am passionate and measured within this Community and feel that I do help in some way to keep this issue 'BURNING' within this busy 24/7 media world in which we live, which is hungry for debate!

I love live Radio and Television because they don't censor you except for a delay and all I do is adhere to Broadcasting Guidelines and I am invited on constantly and often get paid, into the bargin for the last eight years!

Also Fleet Street and Car magazines often ring me for quotes, ideas and angles on articles!

It seems we are getting none of the above recently, taken away by NEW LABOUR under the guise of TERRORISM, section 44 and its missuse on a daily basis by certain members of the bib!

I am acutely aware of my responsibility NOT to incite people to go and destroy all the Speed Cameras, although it may be a good idea to 'adopt a box' in your local area and "see that some harm comes to it" as Hugo Drax of a certain James Bond film would say!

I am a family man in my 40's whos always been a staunch Conservative and is generally law abiding, I was one of the first kids in my school to own a moped in 1982 which was a Majorette Mobilette pedal and go thing and then onto a FS1E and then in 1983 I progressed to a 1976 MG Midget, continuing with motor cycles of allsorts and all of Henry Fords finest RS 1600/1800/2000 mk 2 Escorts, Capri 3.0S and 2.8is and later Escort Cosworth and Sierra Cosworths, we used to race on a friday and saturday nights along North Londons A406 North Circular Road from Colney Hatch to Southend, before the big Tescos was built on the 'DEARDS' dumper truck site, the local bib Traffic were always in attendance from the now defunct Whetstone Traffic Garage (its now TSG public order riot section and Flying Squad base) to hand out instant MOT's!

I am a member of the BRDC, IAM, Safe Speed and the ABD and I passed both my IAM advanced driving test in 1995 and my advanced motorcycle test back in 1997 and always practice 'ROADCRAFT' along with an ethos of "only driving to what I can see and safely brake to!" and have done lots of track work, so I think I can talk about the subject!

My pride and joys are an R1 and a 2004 BMW M3 CSL, but I just don't know what to get next?

I want proper Police on the streets and lots of them, and I want the Judges to JUDGE the real criminals, not decent folk going about there business!

My friends and family in the 'JOB' are sick of it all and can't wait to retire!

Hope this helps?

CG!

[Spokey]

10 Pence Short said:

Delta- you're only treated 'like a criminal' if you break the law in the first place. The law is the same for everybody.

Of course it is. Just look at all those cops who get prosecuted for speeding. What is it, about two a year?

Saintly chaps, coppers.

[Hedders]

10 Pence Short said:

CommanderJameson said:

10 Pence Short said:

Deltaf01 said:

10 Pence Short said:

I'm assuming from your comments above that you do not support there being a speed limit at all in urban areas.

Correct. No speed limits are needed anywhere.
You absolutely DO NOT need to reference numbers on a dial with numbers on a sign to determine a safe speed to travel at.
Hence enforcement of them is pointless, a waste of resources and a source of ill feeling towards the police.

Try it and see for yourself.

Really?

Really.

Be able to stop in the distance you can see to be and reasonably expect to remain clear.

That's all you need.

And you think the judgement powers of every driver in the UK are good enough that they can drive at a suitable speed in built up areas, and that they need no enforcement whatsoever?

They would only require enforcement for driving dangerously, not for travelling at above a certain figure. Any one can detect a dangerous driver..

[TTwiggy]

10 Pence Short said:

Deltaf01 said:

10 Pence Short said:

I'm assuming from your comments above that you do not support there being a speed limit at all in urban areas.

Correct. No speed limits are needed anywhere.
You absolutely DO NOT need to reference numbers on a dial with numbers on a sign to determine a safe speed to travel at.
Hence enforcement of them is pointless, a waste of resources and a source of ill feeling towards the police.

Try it and see for yourself.

Really?

I imagine that the majority of road users would actually be very capable of travelling at a 'safe' speed if left to their own devices - many do this already.

There might be some who would view the removal of a limit as an excuse to tear around with their foot on the floor, but they are the type of person who probably does this already and does not fear prosecution either because they don't have a license to be revoked or they know the exact location of all the local cameras (drive up the A12 just north of the Blackwall Tunnel and you'll see people driving at 70/80/90mph in the 40/50 limit and anchoring up as they get near a camera.

And as others have said, the offence of dangerous driving would still stand.

the only effect would be a freedom to move along without the constant fear of prosecution for the heinous crime of 35mph in a 30 zone...

[bryan35]

captain gatso said:

Friends, Romans, Countrymen lend me your ears!

All I did was hear a news bit on the Radio and post it up to encourage debate on a very serious issue i.e. Speed Cameras and the dangerous side effects they cause, ABH now it seems!

My post does NOT condone this attack whatsoever and neither do I!

My hands are clean, much like Gerry Adams were, my group are only interested in the destruction of Speed Cameras NOT people!

The last thing I want is anyone hurt, injured or killed, the only thing I'm interested in is seeing a complete removal of the failed Speed Camera 'model' by any means nessary, fair or fowl!

Mind you the same cannot be said of this Government what with Iraq and Afganistan, but thats another story of the UK being the puppy of America, the Worlds Police man!

Interestingly, if I'd have posted the exact same story under one of my other alter egos with which I have been on PH since its inception, would the replies have been any different?

I have only started posting on here recently as 'Captain Gatso' as friends suggested it!

I guess Tony and others would have not been so quick to respond, but do advertisers guide your editorial decison to remove or alter posts, are modarators paid?

I hate all forms of CENSORSHIP and Polital Correctness, my Grandfather fought for FREEDOM, FREE SPEECH, DEMOCRACY and a FREE COUNTRY!

One of my favourite non motoring sites is www.order-order.com as every swear word under the sun is mentioned on posts, along with very grown up Political debate!

I am passionate and measured within this Community and feel that I do help in some way to keep this issue 'BURNING' within this busy 24/7 media world in which we live, which is hungry for debate!

I love live Radio and Television because they don't censor you except for a delay and all I do is adhere to Broadcasting Guidelines and I am invited on constantly and often get paid, into the bargin for the last eight years!

Also Fleet Street and Car magazines often ring me for quotes, ideas and angles on articles!

It seems we are getting none of the above recently, taken away by NEW LABOUR under the guise of TERRORISM, section 44 and its missuse on a daily basis by certain members of the bib!

I am acutely aware of my responsibility NOT to incite people to go and destroy all the Speed Cameras, although it may be a good idea to 'adopt a box' in your local area and "see that some harm comes to it" as Hugo Drax of a certain James Bond film would say!

I am a family man in my 40's whos always been a staunch Conservative and is generally law abiding, I was one of the first kids in my school to own a moped in 1982 which was a Majorette Mobilette pedal and go thing and then onto a FS1E and then in 1983 I progressed to a 1976 MG Midget, continuing with motor cycles of allsorts and all of Henry Fords finest RS 1600/1800/2000 mk 2 Escorts, Capri 3.0S and 2.8is and later Escort Cosworth and Sierra Cosworths, we used to race on a friday and saturday nights along North Londons A406 North Circular Road from Colney Hatch to Southend, before the big Tescos was built on the 'DEARDS' dumper truck site, the local bib Traffic were always in attendance from the now defunct Whetstone Traffic Garage (its now TSG public order riot section and Flying Squad base) to hand out instant MOT's!

I am a member of the BRDC, IAM, Safe Speed and the ABD and I passed both my IAM advanced driving test in 1995 and my advanced motorcycle test back in 1997 and always practice 'ROADCRAFT' along with an ethos of "only driving to what I can see and safely brake to!" and have done lots of track work, so I think I can talk about the subject!

My pride and joys are an R1 and a 2004 BMW M3 CSL, but I just don't know what to get next?

I want proper Police on the streets and lots of them, and I want the Judges to JUDGE the real criminals, not decent folk going about there business!

My friends and family in the 'JOB' are sick of it all and can't wait to retire!

Hope this helps?

CG!

You may as well put your name and address on the post with that much information!

I'm assuming you've changed some of the details!

[Digby]

I said only a few weeks ago something like this was going to happen.I'm pretty sure it will happen again too.If people are prepared to risk jail to torch a camera, then it's a safe assumption some will be prepared to take it to another level.
If you push people far enough...

[DucatiGary]

TonyHetherington said:

I'm an Exige owning 27yr old with petrol in my blood

i feel sorry for you, would have been gutted being 27 and only in an exige, hope its a S1 though, that way you will be experiencing a real exige, unlike the S2 which is rather pants in comparrison but i guess you already knew that.

Edited by DucatiGary on Friday 20th June 20:03

[DucatiGary]

10 Pence Short said:

Delta- you're only treated 'like a criminal' if you break the law in the first place.

im trying to think how wrong you could be, but the above is so far from the truth there is no other example.

I was in court a while ago, becuase a police officer said I was speeding, i was not.

later people talked about me being "let off"

I couldnt understand this becuase i hadnt done anything to be let off from thus I was proven innocent in the court even though I was earmarked as being guilty ever since the BiB said I was speeding.

thus your quote above is null and void, not that i had to point it out for you

[dgboxer123]

Deltaf01 said:

10 Pence Short said:

In urban areas where there are lots of pedestrians, the speed you're travelling at has a direct relation to injury or death in the event of a collision with one.

Interesting. You make no assertions that a pedestrian shouldnt stay on his apportioned part of the transport system.
If all did that thered be a whole lot less collisions.
iirc, some 90% ish of collisions were deemed to be "pedestrian stepping out".
I dont care how slowly youre going, do that in front a vehicle with a large mass ( truck) and youre still as dead.
Speed plays its part, but less than the stupidity of pedestrians arrogantly stomping into the traffic stream.
No amount of speed enforcement will cure that, and neither will a camera.

You total prat.

My grandmother was killed by a scumbag white-van-man driving way over the 30mph limit in an urban area. According to all the witnesses she had checked both directions and started to cross quite briskly, as was her way for a woman n her 70s, leaving a small row of shops situated on a straight but hilly road. Aprrox. 200m to her right the hill forms a blind crest.

Said, tt, drove over the crest at, according to Police something like 50 mph, reacted too slowly and - say witnesses - lost control as he saw pedestrians (legitimately) crossing a road, braked and hit her on the opposite side of the road to which he'd been travelling.

So, who was stupid? If there had been a camera, or he had the sense to drive to the conditions/safety/legal limits she might still be alive and her family's life not ruined - especially her husband who spent his last few years largely in misery.

I'll never forget the phone call or running 3 miles to the hospital in a panic only to enter the A&E ward to walk straight into the site from Hell; to see her battered but still living body being pushed from one room to another - something family weren't supposed to see apparently but I walked in at the wrong moment.

I always try to stick to or below urban speed limits because there is always a danger of a child/ person stepping out half-hidden by the street clutter, and anywhere to the conditions including weather, surface and, especially, visibility to try to remain safe - which I always have.

That doesn't mean I agree with or stick to all speed limits as some - e.g. deserted road with clear visibility, roads just arbitrarily reduced from previously accepted limits et cetera, I aim to drive safely and with awareness not to some local body's idea of what should be imposed, but to imply that pedestrians only die because they are stupid or arrogant is sick.

[10 Pence Short]

captain gatso said:

Friends, Romans, Countrymen lend me your ears!

All I did was hear a news bit on the Radio and post it up to encourage debate on a very serious issue i.e. Speed Cameras and the dangerous side effects they cause, ABH now it seems!

My post does NOT condone this attack whatsoever and neither do I!

My hands are clean, much like Gerry Adams were, my group are only interested in the destruction of Speed Cameras NOT people!

The last thing I want is anyone hurt, injured or killed, the only thing I'm interested in is seeing a complete removal of the failed Speed Camera 'model' by any means nessary, fair or fowl!

Mind you the same cannot be said of this Government what with Iraq and Afganistan, but thats another story of the UK being the puppy of America, the Worlds Police man!

Interestingly, if I'd have posted the exact same story under one of my other alter egos with which I have been on PH since its inception, would the replies have been any different?

I have only started posting on here recently as 'Captain Gatso' as friends suggested it!

I guess Tony and others would have not been so quick to respond, but do advertisers guide your editorial decison to remove or alter posts, are modarators paid?

I hate all forms of CENSORSHIP and Polital Correctness, my Grandfather fought for FREEDOM, FREE SPEECH, DEMOCRACY and a FREE COUNTRY!

One of my favourite non motoring sites is www.order-order.com as every swear word under the sun is mentioned on posts, along with very grown up Political debate!

I am passionate and measured within this Community and feel that I do help in some way to keep this issue 'BURNING' within this busy 24/7 media world in which we live, which is hungry for debate!

I love live Radio and Television because they don't censor you except for a delay and all I do is adhere to Broadcasting Guidelines and I am invited on constantly and often get paid, into the bargin for the last eight years!

Also Fleet Street and Car magazines often ring me for quotes, ideas and angles on articles!

It seems we are getting none of the above recently, taken away by NEW LABOUR under the guise of TERRORISM, section 44 and its missuse on a daily basis by certain members of the bib!

I am acutely aware of my responsibility NOT to incite people to go and destroy all the Speed Cameras, although it may be a good idea to 'adopt a box' in your local area and "see that some harm comes to it" as Hugo Drax of a certain James Bond film would say!

I am a family man in my 40's whos always been a staunch Conservative and is generally law abiding, I was one of the first kids in my school to own a moped in 1982 which was a Majorette Mobilette pedal and go thing and then onto a FS1E and then in 1983 I progressed to a 1976 MG Midget, continuing with motor cycles of allsorts and all of Henry Fords finest RS 1600/1800/2000 mk 2 Escorts, Capri 3.0S and 2.8is and later Escort Cosworth and Sierra Cosworths, we used to race on a friday and saturday nights along North Londons A406 North Circular Road from Colney Hatch to Southend, before the big Tescos was built on the 'DEARDS' dumper truck site, the local bib Traffic were always in attendance from the now defunct Whetstone Traffic Garage (its now TSG public order riot section and Flying Squad base) to hand out instant MOT's!

I am a member of the BRDC, IAM, Safe Speed and the ABD and I passed both my IAM advanced driving test in 1995 and my advanced motorcycle test back in 1997 and always practice 'ROADCRAFT' along with an ethos of "only driving to what I can see and safely brake to!" and have done lots of track work, so I think I can talk about the subject!

My pride and joys are an R1 and a 2004 BMW M3 CSL, but I just don't know what to get next?

I want proper Police on the streets and lots of them, and I want the Judges to JUDGE the real criminals, not decent folk going about there business!

My friends and family in the 'JOB' are sick of it all and can't wait to retire!

Hope this helps?

CG!

All sounds more than fair!

[MillWheel]

10 Pence Short said:

I'm not sure who adopted who, but I don't think Captain Gatso's attitude reflects that well on PH.

I'm totally against automated speed enforcement outside of urban limits, but I don't see the justification in someone attacking a chap with an axe.

Fight the system, not the individuals.

Glad to see you have read the detail in the Captain's posts and changed your earlier view!

While you might not agree with every little detail, he broadly thinks how the majority of the public feel... and speaks out and is noticed in the media, giving them (the public) a voice.

I see that he has some glowing testimonials from other posters here - and he seems to be developing a "brand awareness" similar to that once held by Paul Smith until his unfortunate passing.

[Deltaf01]

dgboxer123 said:

You total prat.

Hmm, that was an original opening.

dgboxer123 said:

My grandmother was killed by a scumbag white-van-man driving way over the 30mph limit in an urban area.

And you deduce what from that? If the limit had been 50, then what?

Its not about "limits" pal. That number on the sign means fk all as evidenced by what happened to your grandmother.

dgboxer123 said:

According to all the witnesses she had checked both directions and started to cross quite briskly, as was her way for a woman n her 70s, leaving a small row of shops situated on a straight but hilly road. Aprrox. 200m to her right the hill forms a blind crest.

Said, tt, drove over the crest at, according to Police something like 50 mph, reacted too slowly and - say witnesses - lost control as he saw pedestrians (legitimately) crossing a road, braked and hit her on the opposite side of the road to which he'd been travelling.

So his reactions were "slowed". Playing with the radio, swigging from a can, gobbing away on the mobile, half asleep from a night on the piss, whatever.
Couple that with his obvious lack of observation and ste vehicle control, over 600feet away; at 70mph a car can stop in 345feet.
He obviously wasnt looking/seeing where he was going.
And you think his speed was primarily the factor that caused the accident?
Driver attitude determines what kind of driver you have out there.

dgboxer123 said:

So, who was stupid? If there had been a camera, or he had the sense to drive to the conditions/safety/legal limits she might still be alive and her family's life not ruined - especially her husband who spent his last few years largely in misery.

He was stupid. He was unprofessional as many are, he wasnt paying attention, but the speed, the thing you seem to be so fixated on as a cause, was secondary effect of his crap driving in the first place.
You use the excuse that a camera "Might" have somehow saved her. Not a chance, dont torture yourself with it. Cameras dont work, full stop. You get a double flash and £60 fine two weeks later. That really contributes to safety at the time the photos taken, now doesnt it?
Do you really think this guy would give a flying toss about a camera van parked up the road? he probably wouldnt have even seen the bloody thing hidden as they are and so itd not have saved anyone.

dgboxer123 said:

I'll never forget the phone call or running 3 miles to the hospital in a panic only to enter the A&E ward to walk straight into the site from Hell; to see her battered but still living body being pushed from one room to another - something family weren't supposed to see apparently but I walked in at the wrong moment.

Cant take away the horror of what you experienced or otherwise excuse or ease it, and im not going to do so.
That driver, like so many of the current "couldnt give a st" crop are the reason this happened.

dgboxer123 said:

I always try to stick to or below urban speed limits because there is always a danger of a child/ person stepping out half-hidden by the street clutter, and anywhere to the conditions including weather, surface and, especially, visibility to try to remain safe - which I always have.

Youre falling into the trap of equating a number on a stick with a safe speed.
There is no one "safe" speed. Dont you get it? Its variable. It can be higher can be lower. Our job is to decide what IS safe.
You get discretion to drive at any speed between zero and the sign yes? Why? 30 dosent mean its safe, just as 20 may not be and its no different for any other speed range.
It depends on local conditions, driver ability,vehicle type and so on.

dgboxer123 said:

That doesn't mean I agree with or stick to all speed limits as some - e.g. deserted road with clear visibility, roads just arbitrarily reduced from previously accepted limits et cetera,

So you obviously cant believe what you originally seem to imply; that the speed limits are the be all and end all and compliance with them makes us all safer.
After all if that guy had been within what the sign says then the unfortunate circumstances that led to him hitting your grandmother wouldnt have ever arisen.
But do you really believe that? No i dont think you do. Otherwise youd NEVER exceed a limit yourself!

dgboxer123 said:

I aim to drive safely and with awareness not to some local body's idea of what should be imposed,

So youre either just a variation of the scumbag in the white van, or someone who actually believes you dont need a speedo to drive safely.
Which is it? Id say the latter.

dgboxer123 said:

but to imply that pedestrians only die because they are stupid or arrogant is sick.

Ive not implied anything of the sort.
IIrc, the figure was around 90% of accidents where pedestrians get hit are caused by pedestrians stepping out. Those are not my figures, theyre the dft's (iirc).
However it would tend to imply some foolish behaviour on their part would it not?
You dont jump over a wall before taking a look, do you?

I sympathise with your loss and the suffering imposed by this van driver, but as youve already stated, you exceed the limits yourself for well founded reasons i might add, which would tend to indicate that you dont really believe that speed is the problem any more than i do, why else exceed it? Because you, at the time and place have more information available to act on than any dumb sign or camera.

Its what drivers do with that information that determines how they drive and how safely they do it coupled with their attitude towards the act of driving.
Familiarity breeds contempt.

Still think im a prat?

Edited by Deltaf01 on Saturday 21st June 00:04

[Greendubber]

Spokey said:

10 Pence Short said:

Delta- you're only treated 'like a criminal' if you break the law in the first place. The law is the same for everybody.

Of course it is. Just look at all those cops who get prosecuted for speeding. What is it, about two a year?

Saintly chaps, coppers.

Nope, its far more than that but you just dont hear abot it in the news. Lots of NIPS land in the post tray and if not justified a lot get dished out to people.

[Richard C]

dgboxer123 said:

Deltaf01 said:

10 Pence Short said:

In urban areas where there are lots of pedestrians, the speed you're travelling at has a direct relation to injury or death in the event of a collision with one.

Interesting. You make no assertions that a pedestrian shouldnt stay on his apportioned part of the transport system.
If all did that thered be a whole lot less collisions.
iirc, some 90% ish of collisions were deemed to be "pedestrian stepping out".
I dont care how slowly youre going, do that in front a vehicle with a large mass ( truck) and youre still as dead.
Speed plays its part, but less than the stupidity of pedestrians arrogantly stomping into the traffic stream.
No amount of speed enforcement will cure that, and neither will a camera.

You total prat.

My grandmother was killed by a scumbag white-van-man driving way over the 30mph limit in an urban area. According to all the witnesses she had checked both directions and started to cross quite briskly, as was her way for a woman n her 70s, leaving a small row of shops situated on a straight but hilly road. Aprrox. 200m to her right the hill forms a blind crest.

Said, tt, drove over the crest at, according to Police something like 50 mph, reacted too slowly and - say witnesses - lost control as he saw pedestrians (legitimately) crossing a road, braked and hit her on the opposite side of the road to which he'd been travelling.

So, who was stupid? If there had been a camera, or he had the sense to drive to the conditions/safety/legal limits she might still be alive and her family's life not ruined - especially her husband who spent his last few years largely in misery.

I'll never forget the phone call or running 3 miles to the hospital in a panic only to enter the A&E ward to walk straight into the site from Hell; to see her battered but still living body being pushed from one room to another - something family weren't supposed to see apparently but I walked in at the wrong moment.

I always try to stick to or below urban speed limits because there is always a danger of a child/ person stepping out half-hidden by the street clutter, and anywhere to the conditions including weather, surface and, especially, visibility to try to remain safe - which I always have.

That doesn't mean I agree with or stick to all speed limits as some - e.g. deserted road with clear visibility, roads just arbitrarily reduced from previously accepted limits et cetera, I aim to drive safely and with awareness not to some local body's idea of what should be imposed, but to imply that pedestrians only die because they are stupid or arrogant is sick.

I am really sorry to hear of this horrible incident and your loss. But if there had been a camera........ all that would have happened is this WVM idiot would have had an NIP through the post 2 weeks later.

The accident seems to have had so very little to do with speed. How anyone can be so incompetent or inattentive to fail to slow from 50 or even more in 200m and then lose control beggars belief.

I always try to be even more attentive in urban conditions because there is always a danger of a child/ person stepping out half-hidden by the street clutter and many many other scenarios. I drive at a safe sped for the conditions. Other than being acutely aware of the risk that there is some official parasite lurking in a camera van or with a LTI20-20 round every corner ready to rob me of £60 and a quarter of my licence I couldn't care a damn about the actual speed limit.

[MillWheel]

[quote=dgboxer123]So, who was stupid? If there had been a camera, or he had the sense to drive to the conditions/safety/legal limits she might still be alive and her family's life not ruined - especially her husband who spent his last few years largely in misery.[quote]
Presumably he knew the limit, and was exceeding it. A camera would merely have sent a NIP a week after the event.

The REAL measure which would have saved your grandmother would have been the ones you describe in the latter part of your description... or he had the sense to drive to the conditions/safety/legal limits.

Present camera policy is to collect as much revenue as possible as they PUNISH speeding, and not improve driver training and awareness.
Even speed awareness courses are only offered to those JUST over the limit, but not those who need it the most - the ones like the WVM in your post!

[odyssey2200]

dgboxer123 said:

A sad tale

While sorry to hear that, the fact remains that WVM could not stop in the distance he could see.

This was one of the arguement/ proposals put forward earlier in the thread and would there fore be considered as dangerous driving as opposed to speeding.

I would tentitively also suggest that

WVM possible also did not heed warnings of the pedestrian/Zebra crossing.

The fact that there was a limit irrespective of whether it was 20/30 or 40 would have had no effect on the outcome as the guy seems to have ignored them all anyway, so the speed limit did not save a life.

And ( awaits flaming)

How close to the brow of the hill did lady cross?
IIRC green cross code always recommended crossing away from parked cars. and blind spots etc.

While very sad this clearly proves that a number on a post does not achive save driving and it is entirely possible that the outcome would have been the same if he was doing 30 and not concentrating, on the phone, tuning the radio, etc.

Sorry for your loss.