Removing cheating spouse from home - URGENT advice needed
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It really sounds like he has. He'll be paying maintenance anyway, which is likely to be near to the cost of the rent on her new pad. Makes sense to just pay the rent for her direct, ensures stability, and no need to worry than she's squandering the maintenance payments, and then coming back for another handout.I suspect the OP's saving grace is that they weren't home owners when they split. If she thought there was equity in the family home, she either wouldn't have left (but asked OP to go instead), or be fighting tooth and nail over the financial split. The less marital assets, the smoother the divorce it seems.
Letting her back in to the home temporarily probably wasn't so risky either, I seem to recall the OP had the tenancy switched into solely his name, so there is no legal way she could put down roots again and refuse to leave.
I'll be honest though, it does sound like they really were prepared to make a go of the relationship, much more than just the typical affair of a bit on the side and no commitment. But is was always doomed, and the other bloke was a total idiot for trying to hide his income by putting it through his new mistresses name (may have been foolish, but shows they had intention to make the relationship work, else he wouldn't have done that).
ali_kat said:
I think you've handled it & yourself admirably 
Don1 said:
OP, this faceless stranger on the ol' interwebs is very impressed with your heart, concern for your kids, decision making in the heat of a nasty situation and your deportment during this time.
Kudos. I hope things keep getting better and better for you.
Totally agree, well done mate.Kudos. I hope things keep getting better and better for you.
kiethton said:
Gavia said:
When you say "force disclosure" what do you mean? If it's that he had an affair, the. That won't make one iota of difference to any financial outcome for their divorce.
I presume financial via the alluded to LTD company set up on his behalfFirst of all, unless he is completely frank in disclosing these facts, any attempt to obfuscate his affairs will be considered in rather dim light by the court (as far as I can tell).
Secondly, there's now a big risk this will all come back to bite my wife (and by extension myself...) should she be required to account for the funds withdrawn from a business she was legally in control of at the time. I made her obtain all the records possible in the hope that this may help her convince HMRC she was never in fact controlling the company or its funds. The guy appointed himself as sole director and took over the company after they split.
mjb1 said:
I'll be honest though, it does sound like they really were prepared to make a go of the relationship, much more than just the typical affair of a bit on the side and no commitment. But is was always doomed, and the other bloke was a total idiot for trying to hide his income by putting it through his new mistresses name (may have been foolish, but shows they had intention to make the relationship work, else he wouldn't have done that).
It does seem that way, although his love and commitment for her wasn't obviously as unconditional as she had presumed when she dumped her life and family to be with him, because he quickly folded when the going got tough.In hindsight, I'd have been 'better off' giving them a slightly easier ride and allowing him to support her until my divorce was finalised, but the pain that was inflicted on the kids as well as his wife made the outcome fairly inevitable.
Even if things had resolved with them staying together, I can't really imagine the long term outcome as I'd have never been able to accept the guy. Imagine things like children's birthday parties where both parents and their partners simply can't breathe the same air. He'd have had the same problem being unable to ever introduce my wife to his kids and have normal lives together, and I think that realisation was what eventually broke them down.
OP, seems you have been through the wringer and behaved admirably, coming out the other side with your sanity and relationship with your kids intact, so well done.
IANAL but a word of warning on the documents of hers that you scanned. They might well indicate that someone is being less than candid about their financial circumstances and yes, the courts take a dim view of this but do not assume that you whipping them out in court to prove someone else is hiding things will reflect well on you. However "right" you might be feeling in all of this, a pound to a penny says you will not be as right as you think you are if/when you finally end up in court. Don't ask me how I know this as that's a whole other thread!
You have dealt with this way better than I'm sure I would have done, so hats off to you. Keep on treading carefully and good luck.
IANAL but a word of warning on the documents of hers that you scanned. They might well indicate that someone is being less than candid about their financial circumstances and yes, the courts take a dim view of this but do not assume that you whipping them out in court to prove someone else is hiding things will reflect well on you. However "right" you might be feeling in all of this, a pound to a penny says you will not be as right as you think you are if/when you finally end up in court. Don't ask me how I know this as that's a whole other thread!
You have dealt with this way better than I'm sure I would have done, so hats off to you. Keep on treading carefully and good luck.
theboss said:
It does seem that way, although his love and commitment for her wasn't obviously as unconditional as she had presumed when she dumped her life and family to be with him, because he quickly folded when the going got tough.
Even if things had resolved with them staying together, I can't really imagine the long term outcome as I'd have never been able to accept the guy. Imagine things like children's birthday parties where both parents and their partners simply can't breathe the same air. He'd have had the same problem being unable to ever introduce my wife to his kids and have normal lives together, and I think that realisation was what eventually broke them down.
When they've made the distinct choice to destroy two relatively happy family units to turn your affair into a legit relationship, you'd think it would be obvious that there is no going back from it.Even if things had resolved with them staying together, I can't really imagine the long term outcome as I'd have never been able to accept the guy. Imagine things like children's birthday parties where both parents and their partners simply can't breathe the same air. He'd have had the same problem being unable to ever introduce my wife to his kids and have normal lives together, and I think that realisation was what eventually broke them down.
On the second point, time heals (or at least mellows). You might not be able to stomach being in the same room at this stage, but it would probably have got easier with time. Having said that, years ago I had a girl do the dirty on me, literally left me for one of my best friends (of course he was as much to blame). They were officially an item within days of her dumping me, and while I tried to put a brave face on it, I soon realised that I just couldn't handle that, and I ended up loosing virtually our whole friendship group. After a few years, he proper did the dirty on her - had a fling and got another girl pregnant. My ex apparently stuck by him in spite of this, and other woman having the child. But after a while they split anyway (seems inevitable really) and he made family with the new woman. Point is, I got a certain satisfaction from finding all this out years later, even though our relationship was ancient history by then.
DT398 said:
IANAL but a word of warning on the documents of hers that you scanned. They might well indicate that someone is being less than candid about their financial circumstances and yes, the courts take a dim view of this but do not assume that you whipping them out in court to prove someone else is hiding things will reflect well on you. However "right" you might be feeling in all of this, a pound to a penny says you will not be as right as you think you are if/when you finally end up in court. Don't ask me how I know this as that's a whole other thread!
There's a certain amount of information publicly available on limited companies (director details, returns, annual accounts etc). OP could point the other blokes ex to the companies house webcheck where she can probably find enough evidence of what's gone on. 
Would definitely be worth the OP's stb ex to take a bit of legal advice on if/what she should do to try and limit her exposure from the fallout though.theboss said:
Meanwhile he set up a LTD in my wife's name, pumped over £20k of business invoices through it in the space of a few months (from what I've seen of statements) and drew the money down into other accounts of his whilst also giving her free reign with a business debit card telling her that everything she spent would be accounted for as business expenses.
I presume she was the sole director when the company was set up. Also that the company didn't have a separate Secretary, so all of the legal and regulatory burdens which would otherwise fall on the Secretary are hers (see the Companies Act 2006 Section 270).theboss said:
Secondly, there's now a big risk this will all come back to bite my wife (and by extension myself...) should she be required to account for the funds withdrawn from a business she was legally in control of at the time. I made her obtain all the records possible in the hope that this may help her convince HMRC she was never in fact controlling the company or its funds. The guy appointed himself as sole director and took over the company after they split.
It might be wise to look at it the other way round. Why wouldn't she?Convincing HMRC, and any other official body which might have an interest in the whole sorry saga, that she was a naive/unwilling participant might not be a walk in the park. I would hazard a guess that she has a whole lot of trouble still awaiting her. The issue of her beau being a shadow director (which is pretty mich a given) is something he will have to deal with.
If she resigned when they split (in which case I hope she has filed this with Companies House), he would have had to take over as the Director. The Companies Act requires it (see Section 154).
Btw, your kids are very lucky to have you as their father. As some folks in America put it.
Red Devil said:
It might be wise to look at it the other way round. Why wouldn't she?
Convincing HMRC, and any other official body which might have an interest in the whole sorry saga, that she was a naive/unwilling participant might not be a walk in the park. I would hazard a guess that she has a whole lot of trouble still awaiting her. The issue of her beau being a shadow director (which is pretty mich a given) is something he will have to deal with.
If she resigned when they split (in which case I hope she has filed this with Companies House), he would have had to take over as the Director. The Companies Act requires it (see Section 154).
Btw, your kids are very lucky to have you as their father. As some folks in America put it.
Thanks... a couple of things. Her appointment as sole director at the time of incorporation (a week after they shacked up), and subsequent resignation and appointment of himself some months later are all recorded with companies house. It was the incorporation in her name which drew me to their antics in the first place and of course I made his wife aware at the time. She claims she didn't even sign anything when resigning so he appears to have written her signature when required.Convincing HMRC, and any other official body which might have an interest in the whole sorry saga, that she was a naive/unwilling participant might not be a walk in the park. I would hazard a guess that she has a whole lot of trouble still awaiting her. The issue of her beau being a shadow director (which is pretty mich a given) is something he will have to deal with.
If she resigned when they split (in which case I hope she has filed this with Companies House), he would have had to take over as the Director. The Companies Act requires it (see Section 154).
Btw, your kids are very lucky to have you as their father. As some folks in America put it.
I agree money will have to be accounted for, however I *hope* that having taken over the business and running it as an ongoing vehicle for his continued income, the guy will account for her drawings as his own. Why would he do that for her? Well if he doesn't, he's going to end up being under HMRC's scrutiny very quickly and it wouldn't take too much digging for them to realise that the business's income was derived from services he provided personally. He even gave the new company a name almost identical to the ones he has setup and folded in the past with his own wife as director/shareholder.
I did speak with my solicitor about this and she seemed confident that with adequate records, it would be possible to demonstrate to HMRC that she had no real control. Large bank transfers were also made from the business to his accounts, not hers.
Only time will tell what happens, but I agree that I haven't heard the last of it!
I've followed this thread from the beginning and kudos to you the boss, putting the kids (and yourself) first and not being a callous blighter when she came back after it inevitably went Pete Tong.
I can empathise on most points as I separated from my wife 2 years ago (no one else but similarselfish behaviour - on both our part's.) and she continues to put her interests and wants first with our son very much an afterthought.
I can empathise on most points as I separated from my wife 2 years ago (no one else but similarselfish behaviour - on both our part's.) and she continues to put her interests and wants first with our son very much an afterthought.
Ilovejapcrap said:
theboss said:
An absolute gem from my youngest daughter just a few days ago, now turned eight, her mother said "mother's always know best" and her immediate retort was "well you didn't, did you".
That's f
king brilliant A less erudite but equally powerful response emerged from a colleague's two daughters aged 8 and 10 when their mother returned to the former marital home after telling them she was moving out and leaving them with their father so she could shack up with an office colleague.
I was at his place discussing a project we were collaborating on at the time (work must go on etc) when this occurred. I can't say what the reason for her visit was as she never made it inside, despite my colleague's best and sweetest diplomatic efforts - the two girls stood at the wondow and screamed "go away" until their mother did just that. I mean, screamed.
Quite disturbing, and not for me to judge just to report.
theboss said:
She claims she didn't even sign anything when resigning so he appears to have written her signature when required.
See Form TM01. The key question is whether he was a Person Authorised. If not, and he forged her signature... 
However the filing can be done electronically - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/termina...
theboss said:
I agree money will have to be accounted for, however I *hope* that having taken over the business and running it as an ongoing vehicle for his continued income, the guy will account for her drawings as his own. Why would he do that for her? Well if he doesn't, he's going to end up being under HMRC's scrutiny very quickly and it wouldn't take too much digging for them to realise that the business's income was derived from services he provided personally. He even gave the new company a name almost identical to the ones he has setup and folded in the past with his own wife as director/shareholder.
I did speak with my solicitor about this and she seemed confident that with adequate records, it would be possible to demonstrate to HMRC that she had no real control. Large bank transfers were also made from the business to his accounts, not hers.
Only time will tell what happens, but I agree that I haven't heard the last of it!
IANAL. I did speak with my solicitor about this and she seemed confident that with adequate records, it would be possible to demonstrate to HMRC that she had no real control. Large bank transfers were also made from the business to his accounts, not hers.
Only time will tell what happens, but I agree that I haven't heard the last of it!
HMRC can be a suspicious lot* and has powers that most other Agencies can only dream of. Her main task will be persuading them that she did not collude with lover boy in the enterprise. The big issue for her will be whether she has been spending money on herself using the company debit card and dressing it up as legitimate business expenses. That will be a big red flag. She is the one that may need to retain a solicitor for legal advice (and representation if needed) rather than you!
If so, something tells me you will be picking up the tab for that as well...
* As I mentioned on another thread, a very good friend of mine (now retired) was a senior HMRC compliance inspector.
Smiler. said:
ali_kat said:
I think you've handled it & yourself admirably
Don1 said:
OP, this faceless stranger on the ol' interwebs is very impressed with your heart, concern for your kids, decision making in the heat of a nasty situation and your deportment during this time.
Kudos. I hope things keep getting better and better for you.
Totally agree, well done mate.Kudos. I hope things keep getting better and better for you.
I remember saying to you some months ago to ensure any sympathy you had for her was fleeting.
It seems to me that she appears to be manipulating her way into your affections. I don't mean to take anything away from your obvious care and concern for your children, but tread carefully - both emotionally and legally.
I'm not sure the methods you've been using to gather evidence are entirely applaudable. I'd take a step back if I were you.
It seems to me that she appears to be manipulating her way into your affections. I don't mean to take anything away from your obvious care and concern for your children, but tread carefully - both emotionally and legally.
I'm not sure the methods you've been using to gather evidence are entirely applaudable. I'd take a step back if I were you.
singlecoil said:
Thing is with the evidence that if he's got it up his sleeve then although it probably won't be useful it's better than not having it, and he doesn't need to tell anyone he's got it.
It's probably only useful for gentle blackmail/bribery purposes, rather than something to produce in the legal/financial negotiations. I don't think much of it is directly relevant to the OP's divorce though, it's mostly against the other bloke.Boss, does you stb ex (and the other bloke) know that you've been colluding with his ex yet? I can see things turning really nasty when they find out, it might even get the two of them on side again if they think both ex's are doing a tag team on them.
They are fully aware of our collusion and were back as early as July.
I didn't say much if anything about it on the thread at the time because there were sensitive aspects to the situation and I couldn't afford to publically disclose it.
The real st kicked off back in the summer when after weeks of collusion and 'getting on well' I actually met socially with his wife and eventually was invited to a family BBQ at her house which I attended with my son. Now word of this got to the guy very quickly, either a nosey neighbour or he drove up the cul-de-sac, because within an hour of arriving threatening texts were flying around damning me for setting foot on 'his property' and hysterically blaming me for pretty much the whole sorry mess.
My reply was very hard hitting and followed with a photo - orchestrated by his own daughters - of me sat on his patio surrounded by his family sporting a huge grin, which was also posted publically on Facebook. This act of pouring petrol on a fire ultimately led to the total breakdown of communications and the subsequent social services allegation along with her becoming very aggressive and dictatorial about my contact with the kids.
The point about the evidence gathered (which was left lying around my house) is that it confirms what was suspected all along. The difference is that his wife can draw attention to his 'hidden income' tactics when going for settlement, knowing full well that she's onto something factual rather than purely speculative. The evidence doesn't need to come out - it will be his responsibility to disclose his affairs in a full and frank manner and I believe the court will compell him to do so should there be any vagueness.
I didn't say much if anything about it on the thread at the time because there were sensitive aspects to the situation and I couldn't afford to publically disclose it.
The real s
t kicked off back in the summer when after weeks of collusion and 'getting on well' I actually met socially with his wife and eventually was invited to a family BBQ at her house which I attended with my son. Now word of this got to the guy very quickly, either a nosey neighbour or he drove up the cul-de-sac, because within an hour of arriving threatening texts were flying around damning me for setting foot on 'his property' and hysterically blaming me for pretty much the whole sorry mess.My reply was very hard hitting and followed with a photo - orchestrated by his own daughters - of me sat on his patio surrounded by his family sporting a huge grin, which was also posted publically on Facebook. This act of pouring petrol on a fire ultimately led to the total breakdown of communications and the subsequent social services allegation along with her becoming very aggressive and dictatorial about my contact with the kids.
The point about the evidence gathered (which was left lying around my house) is that it confirms what was suspected all along. The difference is that his wife can draw attention to his 'hidden income' tactics when going for settlement, knowing full well that she's onto something factual rather than purely speculative. The evidence doesn't need to come out - it will be his responsibility to disclose his affairs in a full and frank manner and I believe the court will compell him to do so should there be any vagueness.
Edited by theboss on Wednesday 1st February 20:19
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