Caught with no insurance after midnight expiry
Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
roadsmash said:
BertBert said:
roadsmash said:
I was referring to the countdown... to midnight NYD aka 00:00.
You thought the countdown was to NYE? Think about that... does it make any sense?
You’re bringing in the new year... which is 00:00 on Jan 1st!
Still doesn't work. Most people will think they get to midnight on new years eve, not new year's day to set the fireworks off. They are wrong, but I bet you a quintillion quid that's what the majority of people think.You thought the countdown was to NYE? Think about that... does it make any sense?
You’re bringing in the new year... which is 00:00 on Jan 1st!
Edited by roadsmash on Monday 21st September 19:30
My original point was, there never seems to be much confusion when people are counting down the last 10 seconds on NYE until 00:00.
BertBert said:
Still doesn't work. Most people will think they get to midnight on new years eve, not new year's day to set the fireworks off. They are wrong, but I bet you a quintillion quid that's what the majority of people think.
Absolutely spot on.I get pissed on new years eve and celebrate at midnight - that's good enough for me!!
I do now accept that midnight is the start of the day, not the end, but not something I, or anyone else, has bothered about on new years eve.
NGee said:
Absolutely spot on.
I get pissed on new years eve and celebrate at midnight - that's good enough for me!!
I do now accept that midnight is the start of the day, not the end, but not something I, or anyone else, has bothered about on new years eve.
Spot on? What sort of “I don’t know how to tell the time” boys club is this? I get pissed on new years eve and celebrate at midnight - that's good enough for me!!
I do now accept that midnight is the start of the day, not the end, but not something I, or anyone else, has bothered about on new years eve.
The reason you’re celebrating at midnight is because you’re celebrating the new year’s arrival! Hence the countdown!
You don’t need to be “bothered about it” to be aware that midnight marks the start of a new day.
This is beginning to turn into quite an amusing thread. I’ve never seen someone so adamant to be right about the way they tell the time.
I genuinely can’t believe that “so many people” as you claim aren’t aware that midnight marks the transition to the next day.
When do “most people” think the next day begins? Noon?!
Pica-Pica said:
IIIRestorerIII said:
Just double check his old insurance certificate. Mine here expires at noon.
Same here, my certificate of insurance states ‘Expiry date 12:00 Noon 17th December 2020’. Quite clear that.scottyp123 said:
Life was so much more simple when you could get a cover note or MOT of a bloke down the pub who had half inched a pad of them of the unattended desk of the said business. I've known people in long forgotten past that pulled out cover notes that looked like a 2 year old had crayoned them in when they had to do a producer.
Imagine the delight of my friend who discovered that the only difference on his insurance cert which prohibited driving other vehicles and his mother's cover note which permitted it was the fact that in the phrase "Driving other vehicles is not permitted" the 'not' was covered in XXX. Does the fact he used my parent's typewriter to do this make me an accessory? 
Fore Left said:
Bigends said:
No times on mine - my new cover commences 29th September 2020 and expires 29th September 2021 - nice and simple - no confusion
So your policy runs for a year and a day. How confusing 
No extra day.
roadsmash said:
Fore Left said:
Bigends said:
No times on mine - my new cover commences 29th September 2020 and expires 29th September 2021 - nice and simple - no confusion
So your policy runs for a year and a day. How confusing No extra day.
syl said:
roadsmash said:
Fore Left said:
Bigends said:
No times on mine - my new cover commences 29th September 2020 and expires 29th September 2021 - nice and simple - no confusion
So your policy runs for a year and a day. How confusing No extra day.
So what on earth are you talking about?
jondude said:
vonhosen said:
It is unlikely that the policy/certificate does not show a time at which cover ceases.
True as they do indeed show the time to the second.Just thinking it could be worth a go but yes, does not change the fact the actual document would have made things abundantly clear and the onus is upon the driver to be sure the policy is active when driving.
I suspect that many, if not all, insurers don't use Midnight though. The certificate on a policy for a car I owned in the past expired at 23:59:59
That obviates any potential ambiguity. Something which is far less likely to happen with Noon.
roadsmash said:
Spot on? What sort of “I don’t know how to tell the time” boys club is this?
The reason you’re celebrating at midnight is because you’re celebrating the new year’s arrival! Hence the countdown!
You don’t need to be “bothered about it” to be aware that midnight marks the start of a new day.
This is beginning to turn into quite an amusing thread. I’ve never seen someone so adamant to be right about the way they tell the time.
I genuinely can’t believe that “so many people” as you claim aren’t aware that midnight marks the transition to the next day.
When do “most people” think the next day begins? Noon?!
If you are away with someone, and they say to you on Wednesday "I have to be home by midnight on Friday", most people would assume they had to travel home on the Friday and be back by midnight. Right or wrong, that's what I and 99.99% of people would think. Hardly anyone would think they meant they had to be home for the beginning of Friday, thus travel back on Thursday.The reason you’re celebrating at midnight is because you’re celebrating the new year’s arrival! Hence the countdown!
You don’t need to be “bothered about it” to be aware that midnight marks the start of a new day.
This is beginning to turn into quite an amusing thread. I’ve never seen someone so adamant to be right about the way they tell the time.
I genuinely can’t believe that “so many people” as you claim aren’t aware that midnight marks the transition to the next day.
When do “most people” think the next day begins? Noon?!
I think we all accept that technically, midnight on Friday is 00:00, as per the digital watch, so the start of Friday. But in everyday conversation, that's not what most people mean when they say midnight on Friday.
Opinions matter, but they wont change history, or sway a judge.
As someone has already said, the paperwork/online PDF will state the last day(and potentially a time), that the insurance was in force.
The adult concerned will simply have to hope for some leniency, from the court around the circumstances and long terms plans to park of the car at the journeys end.
As someone has already said, the paperwork/online PDF will state the last day(and potentially a time), that the insurance was in force.
The adult concerned will simply have to hope for some leniency, from the court around the circumstances and long terms plans to park of the car at the journeys end.
roadsmash said:
NGee said:
Absolutely spot on.
I get pissed on new years eve and celebrate at midnight - that's good enough for me!!
I do now accept that midnight is the start of the day, not the end, but not something I, or anyone else, has bothered about on new years eve.
Spot on? What sort of “I don’t know how to tell the time” boys club is this? I get pissed on new years eve and celebrate at midnight - that's good enough for me!!
I do now accept that midnight is the start of the day, not the end, but not something I, or anyone else, has bothered about on new years eve.
The reason you’re celebrating at midnight is because you’re celebrating the new year’s arrival! Hence the countdown!
You don’t need to be “bothered about it” to be aware that midnight marks the start of a new day.
This is beginning to turn into quite an amusing thread. I’ve never seen someone so adamant to be right about the way they tell the time.
I genuinely can’t believe that “so many people” as you claim aren’t aware that midnight marks the transition to the next day.
When do “most people” think the next day begins? Noon?!
Of course midnight marks the transition to the next day, I never said it didn't.
Everyone knows that 'midnight' ends one day and starts another, but which actual day does the word 'midnight' refer to.
Had this discussion with a few friends last night and every one of them thought they were celebrating the new year at midnight on new years eve!
Maybe this says more about my friends! But I still believe that most people think that 'midnight' refers to the day just ended (although I agree they are wrong.)
Tommo87 said:
The adult concerned will simply have to hope for some leniency, from the court around the circumstances and long terms plans to park of the car at the journeys end.
I think the kid is completely screwed. Even with leniency from the court thats only going to be on sentencing for it... the real penalty is going to be having the no insurance conviction. For me I'd see having that conviction as far more of an issue than having to resit my test because of the 6 points. Bigends said:
No times on mine - my new cover commences 29th September 2020 and expires 29th September 2021 - nice and simple - no confusion
No confusion?? Are you joking, have you read this thread?Is that including 29th Sept or does it end at midnight (the beginning of the day) on 29th Sept.
Is it up to the 29th or is it up to and including the 29th? Will you be insured on the 29th?
If it only says what you've written above then that is definitely not nice and simple.
NGee said:
Bigends said:
No times on mine - my new cover commences 29th September 2020 and expires 29th September 2021 - nice and simple - no confusion
No confusion?? Are you joking, have you read this thread?Is that including 29th Sept or does it end at midnight (the beginning of the day) on 29th Sept.
Is it up to the 29th or is it up to and including the 29th? Will you be insured on the 29th?
If it only says what you've written above then that is definitely not nice and simple.
As soon as the date changes from the 28th to the 29th... Bigends is no longer insured.
Why is this so difficult to comprehend?
NGee said:
Bigends said:
No times on mine - my new cover commences 29th September 2020 and expires 29th September 2021 - nice and simple - no confusion
No confusion?? Are you joking, have you read this thread?Is that including 29th Sept or does it end at midnight (the beginning of the day) on 29th Sept.
Is it up to the 29th or is it up to and including the 29th? Will you be insured on the 29th?
If it only says what you've written above then that is definitely not nice and simple.
If your clock has the date 29 on it, you are no longer covered.
“Expires ON 29th September” is what some people read and take away from this.
This is how people speak and think mostly, but not how how contracts are written.
Also, as to the midnight confusion.....
I agree that most think Midnight is at the end of a day. It is the beginning AND the end and is just a word used and normally it matters not.
Not many things in our lives occur at “Midnight Friday” anyway, so it’s not something that crops up often for most of us.
It only caused confusion when associated with the specific date.
If midnight on Friday was one second after Friday 23:59:59, then that would make the time 24.00hrs!
I also had this issues when young. I drove uninsured for the day.
No harm came of it though.
I also drove with two current policies for 25days due to the broker messing up.
The first time I drive in France, they added the extra cover to my Father’s policy by accident. I drove in France for the week, while he was in leafy Surrey.
Fortunately nothing happened to me while I was away.
I also verbally told my (different) broker to prepare my renewal 2 weeks before my expiry date. They didn’t do it and I then relaxed it was sorted and didn’t chase them.
I got pulled over the following week and was given a producer!
I called the broker and explained. He apologised he’d forgotten to address my renewal and issued a cover note for the period in question. Plod were quite happy with this
It occurred to me later, that it was actually my responsibility, even though he forgotten too. I was the one driving the car. His forgetting was not the cause of the illegal activity.
My forgetting WAS.
This was before automatic renewals. When insurance cover was hand written.
It also occurred to me, that he was mad to do it. I told him I’d simply been pulled over and had a ‘7 day wonder’
However, I could have told him this and acquired the certificate from him, even if I’d lied and had just crashed into many things, causing life changing injuries.
Nothing was time stamped and nothing was recorded back then in the early 90s!
I personally think the young man in question is screwed.
If the verbal communication was as described. (This will have been recorded for sure)
If it is not recorded, or can’t be located, then he can just deny the conversation ever took place and produce the original documents, stating he was covered well past the date in question anyway.
Risky I know, but people do lie.
If he pleads his case as it stands, it will be pointed out, that by his own admission, he didn’t understand his verbal instruction and decided to drive anyway.
Either that, or he DID actually understand and decided to drive anyway.
Either way, he decided to drive and he wasn’t covered.
All he’d be doing is stating for the record, that he decided to drive, even though he knew cover was in question.
If the recordings are ambiguous or misleading though, it’s a different issue. One that will cost a lot to unravel in court.
I know I’ve just typed all that, but I actually think the whole thing is a tall story anyway. I think he was just driving uninsured and got nicked.
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