Litigation Question
Discussion
Well it turns out there is an update which I obtained by speaking to one of my solicitors admin assistant's. I have tried getting through to her all morning, left a message all to no avail, so when I spoke to someone else they informed me last Tuesday they had received a part 36 offer in the region of £1000, non prejudice, from the third party insurer. I am surprised that as this is over a week ago I have not heard anything about this, and am finding it increasingly frustrating that I either cannot get hold of my solicitor directly (if she even is one as I am led to believe by a friend she is probably just a litigation executive who works on behalf of one) or when I do I am promised an update which never comes.
To be honest I have reached total saturation with this now, anger has taken over, and I am now fit to take this all the way. I have nothing to lose. I have responded to both of them stating I won't accept offers, and that I want my day in court. Bring it on. I have compelling evidence of her driving without due care and intend to give it in full to a judge.
This came from my solicitor a couple of hours ago...
"I requested a breakdown of their offer and the reason as to why the offer was so low. They have confirmed that the reduction is due to their concerns regarding liability, the amount is 30% of their valuation. They are alleging you assumed their insured was exiting the roundabout instead of heading back on herself and although their insured would rather they make no offers at all, this is a genuine attempt to settle the matter."
My whole attitude over this has changed. I think I have even lost interest in the money, it's all about the principles now.
This came from my solicitor a couple of hours ago...
"I requested a breakdown of their offer and the reason as to why the offer was so low. They have confirmed that the reduction is due to their concerns regarding liability, the amount is 30% of their valuation. They are alleging you assumed their insured was exiting the roundabout instead of heading back on herself and although their insured would rather they make no offers at all, this is a genuine attempt to settle the matter."
My whole attitude over this has changed. I think I have even lost interest in the money, it's all about the principles now.
LoonR1 said:
So you want £6k and the offer is £1k. Pretty much what I said from the start.
Your solicitor is failing to keep you updated and doing a pretty crap job. Pretty much what i said from the start
You ringing the other side is a bad, bad move. Everything you say will be admissible should it ever get to Court and you could destroy your case easily.
Seems to me that your solicitor has overstated the potential
Value and is now either hoping you'll go away, or the case is with an overloaded paralegal. Either way, your calls and anger should still be directed to your solicitor not the other side who will happily let you talk yourself into a big hole.
It was a very amicable call, and I was careful what I said. It was just worth a little punt. There is nothing I have said that will cause any issues, but as I say anything seems worth a go at the moment.Your solicitor is failing to keep you updated and doing a pretty crap job. Pretty much what i said from the start
You ringing the other side is a bad, bad move. Everything you say will be admissible should it ever get to Court and you could destroy your case easily.
Seems to me that your solicitor has overstated the potential
Value and is now either hoping you'll go away, or the case is with an overloaded paralegal. Either way, your calls and anger should still be directed to your solicitor not the other side who will happily let you talk yourself into a big hole.
My solicitor at least has got back to me today, but I am surprised as to the amount of time, plus yet again it is me pestering her.
Bluebarge said:
Calm down dear. The other side wrote to your solicitor on the 24th (Tues) so the earliest your solicitor would have received it is Wednesday. You are assuming that your lawyer has no other clients, was not off-sick or on holiday and was able to pick up your file instantly. 3 working days after your solicitor received a response you have had your answer. Sure, you could get a faster response, but it depends how much you are being charged. If you want a lawyer at your beck and call who will answer your questions instantly, be prepared to pay accordingly. If,as it appears, this is a very small claim and you are paying naff all towards it, manage your expectations accordingly.
P.S. "fight them all the way" can have big costs implications for you. Stop getting emotional about it and get professional advice on your prospects.
Three working days, true, however, this I was told by her was a case that has been "on her desk for months" that "everyone is getting fed up with the wait" with and as always, "the second I hear anything I will let you know". So she heard something a week ago, a pretty significant thing, and yet it is only after 1 week, plus me spending most of the morning on the phone chasing her, that I got a response. I get the impression that she certainly does have plenty of other clients, possibly too many that she actually can't cope with.P.S. "fight them all the way" can have big costs implications for you. Stop getting emotional about it and get professional advice on your prospects.
Is there a cost implication to me? If we go to court, and I lose, then what is the cost? Their fee's are being paid by my work legal cover, so I don't actually have any involvement there. I would presume they would not take a case to court unless they believed there was a high chance of success?
Roo said:
I think you've done well to get anything out of them so quickly.
Took two and a half years to sort out compensation from my accident.
Problem being I am hearing from countless, and I mean countless cyclists, who are receiving large sums of money literally the same week as the accident. I'm not saying I want it that quick, but a year on seems a tad excessive.Took two and a half years to sort out compensation from my accident.
LoonR1 said:
I tripped up in the street and received £441,000 the following day from my local council.
Theres another one you've heard that's absolutely true as well.
I earn £2m a year and just got a company Ferrari on expenses.
My penis is enormous and I sleep with a different supermodel every day.
Plenty of statements are made regularly that are comete and utter BS. It's a shame that if you're in a similar position that you believe them.
Thing is, this isn't pub hearsay from strangers, these are from people I know and ride with regularly. I know for a fact 3 of them have had almost instant payouts. One was contacted by the car drivers third party insurance and dealt with directly etc, so all a very different kettle of fish.Theres another one you've heard that's absolutely true as well.
I earn £2m a year and just got a company Ferrari on expenses.
My penis is enormous and I sleep with a different supermodel every day.
Plenty of statements are made regularly that are comete and utter BS. It's a shame that if you're in a similar position that you believe them.
Looks like this is definitely going to court in light of todays revelations.
Brief update and following on from above.
The offer to me by them of £1k has been declined and the file is still "being reviewed" for court. The main thing we are waiting for in connection with that now is my witness, an elderly chap who was walking at the time. I thought he was a no goer as I have struggled to get hold of him for a long time, however, it turns out he is just an old chap with amobile that has no reception, and a landline that he take's a while to answer, neither of which have a messaging system. I recently obtained his address and email from him so luckily he is now able to provide a statement. I have never asked him directly what he thinks happened or who was at fault, but from conversations with him he has alluded to a degree of blame, in his opinion, by the car driver who was manoeuvring and drove into me. It may be he see's me as having a degree of blame too, but he has never said this directly. His main summary is he looked up and we were just both there on top of each other at the roundabout. I guess receiving his correspondence is important prior to any court proceedings being initiated.
Anyway, I also spoke to me solicitor yesterday. She has been chasing the third party, I think for a bit of disclosure and also to rationalise what I now think has become a 70 / 30 liability presumption by them. When asked why they had come to this conclusion their response was that it was confidential and could not be disclosed. She asked them about what statements they had from the driver e.t.c. and apparently they do not have anything. They then said they had a confidential document which they could not disclose. I then remember being told a long time back when I was speaking with them directly and wasting a lot of time speaking to their phone robot's that they sent an accident investigator to the scene to make an assessment. They have obviously sent their own investigator who will have compiled a report in their favour, after all, how can they assess what happened without speaking to me, who had the most involvement in the accident than anyone else? Insurance companies as usual I guess, so I am totally unsurprised by this. However, seems to me this is just a continuation of heel dragging so on it will go for some time until we eventually do end up outside the county court.
Will update the thread when I know more but I suspect this will go stale for some time now until all paperwork has been collated and a date has been set.
The offer to me by them of £1k has been declined and the file is still "being reviewed" for court. The main thing we are waiting for in connection with that now is my witness, an elderly chap who was walking at the time. I thought he was a no goer as I have struggled to get hold of him for a long time, however, it turns out he is just an old chap with amobile that has no reception, and a landline that he take's a while to answer, neither of which have a messaging system. I recently obtained his address and email from him so luckily he is now able to provide a statement. I have never asked him directly what he thinks happened or who was at fault, but from conversations with him he has alluded to a degree of blame, in his opinion, by the car driver who was manoeuvring and drove into me. It may be he see's me as having a degree of blame too, but he has never said this directly. His main summary is he looked up and we were just both there on top of each other at the roundabout. I guess receiving his correspondence is important prior to any court proceedings being initiated.
Anyway, I also spoke to me solicitor yesterday. She has been chasing the third party, I think for a bit of disclosure and also to rationalise what I now think has become a 70 / 30 liability presumption by them. When asked why they had come to this conclusion their response was that it was confidential and could not be disclosed. She asked them about what statements they had from the driver e.t.c. and apparently they do not have anything. They then said they had a confidential document which they could not disclose. I then remember being told a long time back when I was speaking with them directly and wasting a lot of time speaking to their phone robot's that they sent an accident investigator to the scene to make an assessment. They have obviously sent their own investigator who will have compiled a report in their favour, after all, how can they assess what happened without speaking to me, who had the most involvement in the accident than anyone else? Insurance companies as usual I guess, so I am totally unsurprised by this. However, seems to me this is just a continuation of heel dragging so on it will go for some time until we eventually do end up outside the county court.
Will update the thread when I know more but I suspect this will go stale for some time now until all paperwork has been collated and a date has been set.
My witness has sent his statement back to them, so that bit has now been done. As usual I have heard nothing from them at all, so emailed this afternoon to chase it up. All I received was this:
"The file has been transferred to my supervisor and he will be in contact with you in due course.
With regards to the court dates, that is many months down the line (if it even gets to court) and you would be advised accordingly at that time."
As far as I know the file has been being "reviewed" for the best part of 2 months now, so I am not sure what to take from the predictable response. Loads more waiting I guess although I can't help but think there is little hope of much coming of this any more.
"The file has been transferred to my supervisor and he will be in contact with you in due course.
With regards to the court dates, that is many months down the line (if it even gets to court) and you would be advised accordingly at that time."
As far as I know the file has been being "reviewed" for the best part of 2 months now, so I am not sure what to take from the predictable response. Loads more waiting I guess although I can't help but think there is little hope of much coming of this any more.
Update, the case is going to court. After spending literally all week chasing this, and having failed to get through to my case handler despite repeated phone calls and emails, the file has now been passed to her supervisor, who I spoke to today and he has provided me with all the clarity and answers I needed. Why I could not have had this conversation months ago is beyond me. It is almost like the original handler was avoiding me, never returning calls or responding to emails.
To provide the update, the case has been approved suitable to court, and the papers are now being prepared. I will be sent forms to sign regarding this. My witness has provided a statement, and one that reads in my favour. This is important, and is a good basis for now rejecting the 30% liability they are saying they are prepared to take. So, it may be further offers are made, or it may go all the way to court. Either way I now have the contact details for this chap, who I presume is an actual solicitor rather than a clerk, and he assures me there will be a conclusion.
I am also hoping that this confidential document that the third party insurer won't disclose is an independant accident report that also reads in my favour, hence why they may not be disclosing it's content.
So things should start happening again soon.
To provide the update, the case has been approved suitable to court, and the papers are now being prepared. I will be sent forms to sign regarding this. My witness has provided a statement, and one that reads in my favour. This is important, and is a good basis for now rejecting the 30% liability they are saying they are prepared to take. So, it may be further offers are made, or it may go all the way to court. Either way I now have the contact details for this chap, who I presume is an actual solicitor rather than a clerk, and he assures me there will be a conclusion.
I am also hoping that this confidential document that the third party insurer won't disclose is an independant accident report that also reads in my favour, hence why they may not be disclosing it's content.
So things should start happening again soon.
Finally, progress.
Totally different department now involved and I have received, signed and sent back court papers. All offical, statement of fact all correct and detailed, all being arranged through my local county court, and all correctly titled i.e Me via my solicitor vs The Insurance Company.
These papers have just been received by the insurance company so now I will either be going to court in the not too distant future or will be receiving an amended offer from the insurance company.
Will update when either happens.
Totally different department now involved and I have received, signed and sent back court papers. All offical, statement of fact all correct and detailed, all being arranged through my local county court, and all correctly titled i.e Me via my solicitor vs The Insurance Company.
These papers have just been received by the insurance company so now I will either be going to court in the not too distant future or will be receiving an amended offer from the insurance company.
Will update when either happens.
Month after court proceedings initiated, and as usual, no response from Hastings. So looking like this is going to go all the way to the last minute now. That will be around 2 years after the incident until a resolution. Hastings won't know that my career is road safety, accident investigation and road traffic law, so I can't wait to have my day in court - I'm literally chomping at the bit to be able to evidence the circumstances.
This continues to drag on. Since the case has now been approved for court as of May and the court judgement initiated, ( and acknowledged) things have been pretty slow. I am not sure what processes go on, but suffice to say I have had little update if any since May, and despite continuing to ask for when a court date will be likely and what the next stage is, I am told it is a matter of time and waiting.
Interesting response this week to an email I sent them, my email was just to clarify that in terms of figures, nothing has changed since 10 months ago when the claim was valued. This was the response :
"You are correct that we had valued your claim at £6000-£7000 plus financial losses. As it stands your financial losses are just over £3000 so the total value of the claim is in the region of £10,000. You have, however, already received an interim payment of £2,500. Therefore, if liability is settled on a 100% basis in your favour (this is currently disputed), and the Defendants made you an offer of £10,000, you would receive the net sum of £7,500 after the interim payment is taken off.
If liability is settled 50/50 i.e. both parties are found equally liable, you would receive 50% of the value of your claim. For example, the Defendants may agree the value your claim at £10,000; this would be reduced to £5,000 (50% liability settlement); and reduced further to £2,500 as you would have already receive the interim of £2,500.
I can see that the Defendants have previously offered 70/30 liability split in the Defendant’s favour. If you wish to try and settle your claim sooner rather than later, we can make a 50/50 liability offer. As above, if the Defendants accepted this – and accepted that the value of your claim was around £10,000 – you would receive £2,500 after the interim payment was deducted."
It all makes sense to me when put like this, although I am slightly confused as to an apparent choice I have over liabilty and that I may choose to try and settle earlier. It is still me continually approaching them for updates and this is the first time there has been any suggestion that I may like to negotiate on liability.
I am not looking for the other party to take 100% liability, and am happy to take some blame, only because despite the fact I could have done nothing my experience should have led me away from this ever happening. But I can't accept 50/50, it's just not right.
I think their client left them back in 2014 and as far as I know they have nothing from her, no real defence and certainly no willingness to attend any court hearing as there is no incentive for her.
So I am now wondering what will happen next.
Interesting response this week to an email I sent them, my email was just to clarify that in terms of figures, nothing has changed since 10 months ago when the claim was valued. This was the response :
"You are correct that we had valued your claim at £6000-£7000 plus financial losses. As it stands your financial losses are just over £3000 so the total value of the claim is in the region of £10,000. You have, however, already received an interim payment of £2,500. Therefore, if liability is settled on a 100% basis in your favour (this is currently disputed), and the Defendants made you an offer of £10,000, you would receive the net sum of £7,500 after the interim payment is taken off.
If liability is settled 50/50 i.e. both parties are found equally liable, you would receive 50% of the value of your claim. For example, the Defendants may agree the value your claim at £10,000; this would be reduced to £5,000 (50% liability settlement); and reduced further to £2,500 as you would have already receive the interim of £2,500.
I can see that the Defendants have previously offered 70/30 liability split in the Defendant’s favour. If you wish to try and settle your claim sooner rather than later, we can make a 50/50 liability offer. As above, if the Defendants accepted this – and accepted that the value of your claim was around £10,000 – you would receive £2,500 after the interim payment was deducted."
It all makes sense to me when put like this, although I am slightly confused as to an apparent choice I have over liabilty and that I may choose to try and settle earlier. It is still me continually approaching them for updates and this is the first time there has been any suggestion that I may like to negotiate on liability.
I am not looking for the other party to take 100% liability, and am happy to take some blame, only because despite the fact I could have done nothing my experience should have led me away from this ever happening. But I can't accept 50/50, it's just not right.
I think their client left them back in 2014 and as far as I know they have nothing from her, no real defence and certainly no willingness to attend any court hearing as there is no incentive for her.
So I am now wondering what will happen next.
What I was told was that when the best offer from the third party was 70/30 in their favour, the case was reviewed and the solicitors have decided that it is worthwhile taking the matter to court, as opposed to not bothering, so the case was "approved for court" so to speak. I was then told that the court process has begun, I had the court papers sent through the post including all the statements of fact, signed them, sent them back, and Hastings are aware that this has happened. That was back in May.
What I am unclear about is what has been happening since then, as I have received no updates and it feels like I am no closer to court than I was months ago. I have sent the solicitors a frank email last night on the back of all this to try and get a further update but to my mind it is strange that Hastings simply do nothing during all of this. It's coming up to 18 months now.
A friend of mine is convinced it is because Hastings know they are on to a loser and are just biding their time as it is not costing them. He suggests the cost only starts the day before a court hearing as that is when they send the papers to the barrister to actually digest and try and prepare a defence to the case. So far, as far as I know, Hastings have nothing, and I have my version of events which are meticulous, as well as an independent witness and all the medical reports from the doctor who assessed me. I know they sent a collision investigator to the scene weeks after the event to compile a report, I think that's all they have. It will be interesting to hear this report and comment on it, firstly seeing as it was compiled without any consultation of me, the casualty and party involved, and secondly, because I too work in that field.
What I am unclear about is what has been happening since then, as I have received no updates and it feels like I am no closer to court than I was months ago. I have sent the solicitors a frank email last night on the back of all this to try and get a further update but to my mind it is strange that Hastings simply do nothing during all of this. It's coming up to 18 months now.
A friend of mine is convinced it is because Hastings know they are on to a loser and are just biding their time as it is not costing them. He suggests the cost only starts the day before a court hearing as that is when they send the papers to the barrister to actually digest and try and prepare a defence to the case. So far, as far as I know, Hastings have nothing, and I have my version of events which are meticulous, as well as an independent witness and all the medical reports from the doctor who assessed me. I know they sent a collision investigator to the scene weeks after the event to compile a report, I think that's all they have. It will be interesting to hear this report and comment on it, firstly seeing as it was compiled without any consultation of me, the casualty and party involved, and secondly, because I too work in that field.
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