Instant Ban for Drink or Drugged Driving

[simonas2702]

I don't agree with the proposals as the system works fine as it is. It is extremely rare that anyone gets caught drink driving again whilst on bail for a similar offence

Baring in mind its taking a good 3 months to get drug drive blood tests back and they can often be under then a ban pending test would be unjust in my opinion

Leave it to the courts its fine as is

[havoc]

simonas2702 said:

Baring in mind its taking a good 3 months to get drug drive blood tests back and they can often be under then a ban pending test would be unjust in my opinion

Whilst I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, the ambition in the OP is to certify breath-tests which are as accurate as the in-station blood tests, the logic being that "by the time the driver has been taken to the station and a blood test drawn, they may be under the limit".

(...which does raise the question about (a) accuracy of the current machines; (b) how many people are JUST over the limit when stopped if they're suddenly under the limit 30-60 minutes later; or (c) how inefficient police procedures are to take hours (?) to get a D-D suspect to the station and booked in)

[Greendubber]

Drink drive prisoners used to be rushed through, straight to the front of the queue to get them booked into custody and straight onto the evidential machine.

These days we have shut all the local, convenient custody blocks full of decent staff in favour of huge, inefficient custody facilities that appear to have a minimum of an hour's wait in a holding room, whilst being ignored by the civilian child staff members There's no appetite or enthusiasm to get the prisoners processed quickly and they seem happy to let us wait whilst evidence dissolves before your very eyes.

It's a sad state of affairs, I was waiting for 3.5hrs last week with a chap I had in custody (not drink drive) before we even made it to the desk to get him booked in, I'd imagine most drink drivers would have sobered up by then!

If I'm sounding negative it's because I am, I despair at the state of how things have become.

[agtlaw]

Greendubber said:

Drink drive prisoners used to be rushed through, straight to the front of the queue to get them booked into custody and straight onto the evidential machine.

These days we have shut all the local, convenient custody blocks full of decent staff in favour of huge, inefficient custody facilities that appear to have a minimum of an hour's wait in a holding room, whilst being ignored by the civilian child staff members There's no appetite or enthusiasm to get the prisoners processed quickly and they seem happy to let us wait whilst evidence dissolves before your very eyes.

It's a sad state of affairs, I was waiting for 3.5hrs last week with a chap I had in custody (not drink drive) before we even made it to the desk to get him booked in, I'd imagine most drink drivers would have sobered up by then!

If I'm sounding negative it's because I am, I despair at the state of how things have become.

From an expert report:

"Alcohol is eliminated from the body at a steady rate, the actual value of which will vary throughout the population. Alcohol is eliminated from the bloodstream at a rate equivalent to a fall in blood alcohol concentration of between 9 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood per hour (9mg% per hour) and 29mg% per hour with a most likely value of 19mg% per hour."

19mg% blood is approximately 8 micrograms per 100ml breath. Assuming 'most likely' outcomes and in the elimination phase - your detainee gives a roadside reading of 50 in breath. If it takes an hour to get to the nearest cop shop then his reading on arrival would be 42. Another hour waiting for an evidential test then 34 and he's free to leave with NFA.

[Oceanrower]

agtlaw said:

From an expert report:

"Alcohol is eliminated from the body at a steady rate, the actual value of which will vary throughout the population. Alcohol is eliminated from the bloodstream at a rate equivalent to a fall in blood alcohol concentration of between 9 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood per hour (9mg% per hour) and 29mg% per hour with a most likely value of 19mg% per hour."

19mg% blood is approximately 8 micrograms per 100ml breath. Assuming 'most likely' outcomes and in the elimination phase - your detainee gives a roadside reading of 50 in breath. If it takes an hour to get to the nearest cop shop then his reading on arrival would be 42. Another hour waiting for an evidential test then 34 and he's free to leave with NFA.

This is probably a very naive question but you often hear of ‘countback’ where someone made it home and they nab them later and calculate a previous level of alcohol.

Could this not apply in your above circumstances back to the time of the offence/arrest?

[agtlaw]

Yes, that's a back-calculation. It involves the police instructing an expert, so they rarely do it unless someone is dead.

[Greendubber]

agtlaw said:

Greendubber said:

Drink drive prisoners used to be rushed through, straight to the front of the queue to get them booked into custody and straight onto the evidential machine.

These days we have shut all the local, convenient custody blocks full of decent staff in favour of huge, inefficient custody facilities that appear to have a minimum of an hour's wait in a holding room, whilst being ignored by the civilian child staff members There's no appetite or enthusiasm to get the prisoners processed quickly and they seem happy to let us wait whilst evidence dissolves before your very eyes.

It's a sad state of affairs, I was waiting for 3.5hrs last week with a chap I had in custody (not drink drive) before we even made it to the desk to get him booked in, I'd imagine most drink drivers would have sobered up by then!

If I'm sounding negative it's because I am, I despair at the state of how things have become.

From an expert report:

"Alcohol is eliminated from the body at a steady rate, the actual value of which will vary throughout the population. Alcohol is eliminated from the bloodstream at a rate equivalent to a fall in blood alcohol concentration of between 9 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood per hour (9mg% per hour) and 29mg% per hour with a most likely value of 19mg% per hour."

19mg% blood is approximately 8 micrograms per 100ml breath. Assuming 'most likely' outcomes and in the elimination phase - your detainee gives a roadside reading of 50 in breath. If it takes an hour to get to the nearest cop shop then his reading on arrival would be 42. Another hour waiting for an evidential test then 34 and he's free to leave with NFA.

Indeed, hence the frustration. I never knew the exact numbers but that's some good info so thank you.

[iDrive]

iDrive said:

E-bmw said:

Puddenchucker said:

Police Chiefs are asking for ability to disqualify drunk or drugged drivers 'at the roadside".

https://news.sky.com/story/officers-should-be-allo...

I'm presuming 'at the roadside' would actually mean after an evidential test at a Police Station.

I would presume "at the roadside" meant exactly that, not "at the police station" personally.

This is linked to a Home Office exercise seeking a supplier of Roadside Testing equipment (specifically for Drug Driving, as Drink Driving equipment already exists), which can test to and supply evidence to the standard of the tests currently completed in the Custody Suite or elsewhere.

The intention is that the offence is entirely dealt with at the roadside.

Given the relatively rapid dissipation rate and the often spectacular delays in getting drivers to a Custody Suite and then to an Evidential Test, there must be a VERY high proportion of offenders who escape penalty because of these delays - Therefore roadside testing to evidential standard makes a lot of sense imho.

Note the article focuses on the Policing issue, the reality is developing the tech which can be relied on by the roadside.

The change, allowing suspension of Licence at the roadside, relies on the development of evidential quality tests robust (evidentially and physically) to be used.
Its the HO competition to secure such tests that will come first.